Talk:Tygart Valley River

River name

I grew up in Pocahontas county, and I've camped on the headwaters of this river several times, but I've never heard it called the "Tygart Valley River". We just call it the Tygart River. It's pronounced TIE-girt (I don't know exactly how to use the IPA, but it would be something like /ˈtaɪɡɝt/). There's a high school in Mill Creek, in Randolph County, called Tygart Valley High School, but that is the only instance I can think of in the local vocabulary where the words "Tygart" and "valley" are coupled. Digitizdat 20:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

There is a possibility that Robert Files and David Tygart were brothers-in-law. Robert Files is believed to have married David's sister Elizabeth Tygart around 1737 in Augusta County Virginia. The only surviving son was John Files who served as a Captain in the American Revolution. John Files was eventually killed around 1781 by a band of Tories and indians. Cathywhyer (talk) 22:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

There are over 10,000 hits on Google for "Tygart Valley River". Apparently the usage is common. 96.231.165.216 (talk) 01:33, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

The high school in Mill Creek is actually Tygarts Valley. Most people just call it the Tygart River, but the official name is Tygart Valley River. The issue of the name came up before the BGN three times, most recently in 1950.[1] The valley was named after the Tygart family, and the river is in the valley. Hence, the name.[2]Brian Powell (talk) 03:16, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Source stream of the Mississippi-system (by volume)

Recently, Bitmapped reverted the following sentence: The Tygart Valley River is, by volume, the headstream of the Mississippi River, a hydrological fact that is hidden by the changing names (Monongahela River, Ohio River) at three junctions with rivers of minor discharge (West Fork River, Allegheny River, Mississippi River).
Regarding the runoff data, this statement is verifiable easily:

• Mean discharge (MQ) of the Upper Mississippi at Thebes: 5,865 m³/s (207,000 ft³/s; Global Runoff Data Centre (2008): Long-Term Mean Monthly Discharges and Annual Characteristics of GRDC Station)
  MQ of the Ohio River: 7,957 m³/s (281,000 ft³/s; i.e. 36% more)
• MQ of the Allegheny River: 470 m³/s (16,700 ft³/s)
  MQ of the Monongahela River: 507 m³/s (17,900 ft³/s; i.e. 8% more)
• MQ of the West Fork River: 33 m³/s (1,160 ft³/s)
  MQ of the Tygart Valley River: 54 m³/s (1,922 ft³/s; i.e. 64% more)

The phenomenon of different courses of the main stem of a river system (according to each definition) is not limited to the Mississippi-system (by name: Upper Mississippi, by length: Headwaters of the Missouri, by volume: Headwaters of the Ohio) but probably the best known. --WWasser (talk) 19:04, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Probably because it wasn't sourced. I saw it and wondered whether it was true. Without a source I couldn't easy determine. I thought the Mississippi had a higher flow at the Ohio confluence than the Ohio. Otherwise the claim seemed reasonable. However, I just did a quick check. The USGS stream gage 07022000 MISSISSIPPI RIVER AT THEBES, IL, says the flow of the Mississippi just above the Ohio confluence has a long term annual mean of 208,200 cfs. Our Ohio River page gives a discharge of 281,000 cfs. I'm not sure where that number came from, but according to USGS gage 03611500 OHIO RIVER AT METROPOLIS, IL (which is 37 miles above the mouth), the Ohio's average discharge is 278,100 cfs. So I think you are right, at least in the Ohio vs. Mississippi case. If the whole thing is true, that the Tygart Valley River is the source "by discharge", I think it's worth including--perhaps on the Ohio and Mississippi pages too. It just needs proper sourcing. If you have a source but don't know how to work the wikicodes, just ask for help. If I have the time I'll look around for other USGS gages on the topic. But citing a bunch of stream gages seems non-ideal. It would be better to have a single source making the point clearly. Pfly (talk) 20:51, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I deleted the statement because it was unsourced and appeared dubious since the Ohio and Allegheny are normally considered to be one river system, not Ohio and Monongahela. It would help if you could provide links to the underlying data so it can be readily compared.

The closest data sources I could find from USGS were gages on the Allegheny at Natrona (River Mile 24.3) [3], Monongahela at Elizabeth (River Mile 24.0) [4] and Youghiogheny at River Mile 15.2 [5]. The Allegheny had an annual mean of 19,750 CFS which is well above the number you list. Combined, the figures for Monongahela and Youghiogheny were 12,352 CFS. Based on these numbers, the Allegheny is the higher-volume river. Bitmapped (talk) 22:58, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, a bit of research seems to back up what Bitmapped has written. It appears that the Monongahela River's discharge is quite a bit less than the Alleghany's. The Monongahela River page cites a rather high figure that the footnote reference does not seem to back up. Something should be fixed, but I'm not yet sure what or how. I've asked for advice over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rivers#Tygart Valley River source of Mississippi by discharge?. All of this does make me wonder what the source of the Mississippi by discharge might be. Pfly (talk) 06:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Additional info: Monongahela at Braddock (below mouth of Youghiogheny): 12,650 CFS, Ohio at Sewickley (some 13 miles below origin): 33,617 CFS. Difference: 20,967 CFS. Bitmapped's numbers seem to represent a consistent database. Sorry for having been too trustful ... Whats the 'real' origin of the Allegheny? --WWasser (talk) 13:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't have the time right now to dig much through streamflow records, but I believe the primary source of the Allegheny is the main stem Allegheny River itself in Potter County, PA. Judging by maps and my recollections from the area, the only other possible contender would be Mill Creek which it meets at Coudersport (~300 miles above Pittsburgh) but I believe the Allegheny is still somewhat larger here. The furthest upstream gage is at Port Allegany (River Mile 285). Bitmapped (talk) 15:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

A rough outline of the catchment areas shows that the Allegheny above Coudersport may be 40-50% bigger than Mill Creek. Potter County proudly presents... (sorry, Tygart Valley) --WWasser (talk) 18:20, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

This site gives the Allegheny River discharge as 19,660 cfs. Thought it might be useful... or troublesome... Shannon^talk _contribs 02:19, 2 October 2010 (UTC)