Talk:Ubasute

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Comment[edit]

How do we know this "practice" was actually practiced, as opposed to folklore? Are there any citations? Shirokuma1 04:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Swedish, there is a similar term (ättestupa, i.e. the family ridge). Swedish historians have, however, recently claimed that it is a myth. I remain skeptical, though. It would be interesting to cite some study on international comparisons, if there are analogous practices in different cultures. I have heard inuits used to leave their elders to die "out on the ice", but I don't know a source for that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.199.222.62 (talk) 08:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article saids that it was practiced before the Meiji era, and talks about similar practices in other cultures: What Japan can Offer to International Bioethics (go down on the page or search for "Ubasuteyama"). Kenshin (ex AKoan) (talk) 09:33, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It occured, or at least the cultural presence would seem to indicate it did, especially in times of starvation (a la Inuit Euthanasia). I doubt you'll get any forensics from the Meiji, but the relevant secondary literature I've read seems to confirm this suspicion. In terms of recent primary materialm, suicide for the elderly is still quite high. Suicide isn't stigmatized like in Christianized Western countries.

Also, beyond starvation, the elderly frequently they see themselves as burdens. It's very Japanese. Japanese society is much more collectivist than America and many other societies. Let me check Ezra Vogel and some of the usual Area Studies suspects and I'll throw up some cites if no one objects.

I can also think of some references to it in manga stories, which generally use it metaphorically to deal with the elderly problem. My Japanese is atrocious though, so I'll probably have to have someone look over my Romanized spelling. Guinness4life (talk) 01:17, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's also present in Korean culture-- see, for example, Kim Ki-young's 1963 film Goryeojang. Dekkappai (talk) 02:33, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 04:34, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

If I am not wrong, the practice is called "ubasute", not "ubasuteyama" (which is the mountain where they were taken).--Mycomp (talk) 15:04, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have some source? Kenshin (talk) 12:00, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Japan, An Illustrated Encyclopedia, Kodansha Ltd., Tokyo, 1993, on p. 1121 the entry obasute says: "(literally, "abandoning old women"). Also called ubasute, or sometimes oyasute ("abandoning parents"). The practice of abandoning the aged, usually in the mountains, is the subject of legends throughout Japan... etc. etc."--Mycomp (talk) 12:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Then "ubasuteyama" would mean "abandoning old women in the mountain", which is roughly the translation the article gives. Apparently the Kamuriki mountain (Kamurikiyama) is commonly called Ubasuteyama (though it should be translated Ubasute mountain). That part is not sourced though! Maybe we should ask somebody from Japan. Kenshin (talk) 10:51, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry that I have to say it again, but "Ubasuteyama" means "the mountain where old women are abandoned" NOT "abandoning old women in the mountain". As to the Kamurikiyama, here is the first sentence in the Japanese Wikipedia "Obasuteyama" article: 姨捨山（おばすてやま・うばすてやま）は、長野県千曲市と東筑摩郡筑北村にまたがる山。冠山とも更科山とも称される。正名は冠着山（かむりきやま）。My translation: "Obasuteyama/Ubasuteyama is a mountain that lies between Chikuma City and Chikuhokomura Higashichikumagun, Nagano Prefecture. It is also referred to as Kanmuriyama or Sarashinayama. The official name is Kamukiriyama.--Mycomp (talk) 13:08, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you are sure about that then please make the changes. Kenshin (talk) 10:44, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Preferably, the name of the page should be changed to "Obasute", but I don't know how to do it :( If nobody will do that, I can try to rewrite the article to reflect the title.--Mycomp (talk) 12:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Star Trek? Please...[edit]

That episode could just as easily have used Logan's Run for inspiration, give me a break. Unless you have the writer saying so, don't post this kind of garbage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.8.132.118 (talk) 23:57, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]