Talk:Ultrakill

Music references in ULTRAKILL

This game contains many references to popular music, including a level entitled "Court of the Corpse King", referencing In the Court of the Crimson King, two levels based on The Burning World (album) ("The Burning World" and "God Damn the Sun"), A level entitled "Clair De Lune" (Backed by the track Clair de lune (Debussy) of the same name) and many others. I'd say this is notable enough in the game to justify some amount of mention Emirps (talk) 17:02, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Agree. Almost everything in this game is a reference to something (usually music or gaming). It deserves at least a mention, even if an actual list would be out of this wiki's scope. cogsan (talk) 15:53, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Should this page go into more detail about the gameplay?

There's a lot of Cool Stuff that can be performed in this game - coin-adding, slam storage, projectile boosts, and way more. Even the most simple mechanics have enough importance to be shown on this page. Thoughts? MRuuby (talk) 16:20, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

While we could always go into more detail, sometimes the most encyclopedic thing to do is just say. "Ultrakill is known for providing players with extensive mobility and combat related mechanics such as [short list of mechanics]." 192.77.12.11 (talk) 10:55, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

I think a good enough way to put it would be having a short paragraph providing examples of techs that were completely intentional (like rocket riding and the funny coin), and then another one for things that would be counted as glitches, but the devs adopted as features because they were Cool and Neat (like projectile boosting and slam storage).

Separating them into combat and movement instead could also work, but that might be a little harder to get right. Would also need some sources for what exactly the intention behind the techs is, like Hakita's statements. cogsan (talk) 15:33, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Mod support?

This game has got a a famous mod which has been in part developed by one of its developer and has been featured in journalism. Considering the atypical point of that mod, and its various coverage and fame and also the fact it has had the developers of the game involved in its making in cooperation with the developer of buttplug.io. Maybe it is relevant enough to mention it? https://www.pcgamer.com/retro-shooter-ultrakill-now-has-official-sex-toy-support/ https://www.pride.com/geek/ultrakill https://www.kotaku.com.au/2022/12/ultrakill-has-buttplug-support-now-if-thats-of-any-interest-to-you/

From my own research on that mod, which I've learned from reading statements from the buttplug.io developer. This mod is technically simply adding a controller rumble support and therefore is perfectly suited to more typical uses. Mademoiselle Extravagante (talk) 22:21, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

of course it's the sex update

It's neat and all that the game has mod support, but I'd actually rather wait until some other mods (like fanmade levels, weapons, and KITR) are ready and get coverage (which I really think they will, considering how public some of them are), so the mod support section can mention more than one of them.

But then again, just one of the official ones could work as an example. cogsan (talk) 11:38, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

The Gameplay section is gratuitously detailed.

Wikipedia is not a game guide. The Gameplay section should contain only essential information. I understand that this game has a lot of very interesting mechanics, and I understand the temptation to try to include as much as possible, but I think a rewrite of the Gameplay section is required to match Wikipedia's standard of quality. If needed, I can help in this regard, as I'm an experienced ULTRAKILL player (being in the top 25 players in The Cyber Grind on Violent difficulty for a period of time before mostly moving on from playing the game). I am also experienced in video game analysis as I am a game developer.

In addition, mention of the game's heavy inspiration from "Stylish Action" games like Devil May Cry is missing from the introduction. Since these elements are very important to the gameplay, and arguably more influential than classic FPS games according to Hakita's own statements, I think it warrants inclusion. Unfortunately, there isn't a broadly used genre title for games in the vein of Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, etc. beyond "hack and slash" so the genre list can't be updated to appropriately reflect the game's actual influences, but mentioning them in the introduction would be nice.

Also, most video game articles don't mention mod support unless, and ULTRAKILL is only about as moddable as any other Unity game. I get that the butt plug thing is funny, but I question its actual value in this article. More than willing to hear alternative opinions on this subject though. Corviraptor (talk) 20:12, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

In fairness, Ultrakill's mod support was covered in several outlets. Mod support isn't typically mentioned in Wikipedia articles unless something about it is notable, mod support simply existing isn't enough to warrant inclusion. I think that threshold is met in this instance, but I also feel like there isn't a "good" place to include that bit in the current article (it would fit under Development, but the article doesn't currently have a section for that).

That being said, you should just start editing, if you're up for that! You don't have to ask for permission :p ReneeWrites (talk) 08:37, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

How about we make this article more serious?

Yes, shit's funny, but Wikipedia is not for jokes, as much as I hate to say it. We do not need "...but can also be read as "The Prostate of Hate")" and "King Minos also spent his entire city budget on bisexual lighting. Big mistake.". We shouldn't mention the fact this game has buttplug support either... "On December 8, 2022, Ultrakill added official sex toy support. Its developer released an official mod called UKbutt, adding support for a plugin called buttplug.io. The mod was created by Ultrakill programmer PITR and buttplug.io lead Kyle "qDot" Machulis. New Blood CEO Dave Oshry remarked that "at no point when originally testing or discussing the game with Hakita or anyone at [New Blood] were any of us like 'they're gonna want sex.'" The update, dubbed the "sex update", was met with a new wave of positive reviews." 181.188.59.137 (talk) 14:26, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

everything besides the sex update part was vandalism

as is, it's serious enough cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 11:45, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Early Access

Ultrakill is still an early access game on Steam - should this be included in the first section? It seems notable. SpaceCowboy444 (talk) 18:32, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

saying that "it was released through early access" without "and then fully released in insert date here" after it seems to do the job just fine cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 19:22, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Wow, I actually completely missed that. My mistake. If you're not opposed, I'm going to delete this topic, since it doesn't actually contribute anything to the discussion at this point. SpaceCowboy444 (talk) 19:29, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

no need to delete it either

someone someday will witness our sins and... probably not react in any meaningful way cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 20:03, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Terrifying... and also very fitting for Ultrakill. SpaceCowboy444 (talk) 20:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

before i get too bold...

info on the sex update was removed because "it was a mod", but i think it would be a better idea to add it back, because it's an official mod with sauce backing it up

the text that spoke of sex, for context

On December 8, 2022, Ultrakill added official sex toy support. Its developer released an official mod called UKbutt, adding support for a plugin called buttplug.io. The mod was created by Ultrakill programmer PITR and buttplug.io lead Kyle "qDot" Machulis. New Blood CEO Dave Oshry remarked that "at no point when originally testing or discussing the game with Hakita or anyone at [New Blood] were any of us like 'they're gonna want sex'." The mod, dubbed the "sex update", was met with a new wave of positive reviews. It was named this as a majority of the negative reviews jokingly complained about there being “no sex.”

should i do the thing, or is it better off out of the article?

cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 20:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

got tired of waiting was bold and added it back

feel free to revert if you disagree with that being there cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 14:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

rfc on the "sex" "update"

should the segment on the "sex update", which was added, then removed for being about a mod, then added again (by me) for being relevant and having a source to back it up, and now removed again for lacking relevancy, be kept?

in case of need, the paragraph is right over this thread cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 01:12, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

• i support it for... the exact same reasons as before. i think it's very much relevant to ultrakill's development, and still has that source (which also documents the positive review bomb, which is really funny)

cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 01:16, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Should We add information on Layer 7?

On December 20th, Hakita released the Violence Layer to Ultrakill, should we add a section to it? KizzMonkey (talk) 03:19, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

yes, absolutely...

once the news drops

i'd say articles less like this one (literally only says that and when it released), or this one (no dates, also kinda not gushy for news standards i guess), and more like this one (included is a semi related note on the player count) cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 00:31, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

needs work

i think theres way too much jargon and overexplaining of the lore in the plot section. also the gameplay explainations are excessivley detailed. this isnt a guide it should just explain the general concept and outline what makes it unique. this is wikipedia not fandom.com 2603:7000:3F00:95C1:F054:2D38:B87:999F (talk) 23:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

"Avoid lists of gameplay concepts and items unless these are notable as discussed in secondary sources in their own right in gaming context (such as the BFG from the Doom series). A concise summary of gameplay details (specific point values, achievements, time-limits, levels, types of enemies, etc.) is appropriate if it is essential to understanding the game or its significance in the industry, but walk-throughs and detailed coverage are not." 2603:7000:3F00:95C1:F054:2D38:B87:999F (talk) 23:05, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

plot section rewrite suggestion

I rewrote the plot section for the purposes of clarity, context, and more conciseness. i think this is better than whats currently in place, which is a little long and unnecessarily detailed. also hard to understand if you havent heard of the game before. my version might also be a little repetitive though. however i think it is an improvement and not unnessecary.

Prior to the events of the game which take place in the year 2112, the Christian God has abdicated his throne and disappeared mysteriously. In addition, humanity has been rendered extinct by an intense technological arms race which had resulted in the production of advanced war robots that are powered by fresh blood. The game’s main character is V1, a humanoid prototype machine that possesses the unique ability to absorb blood through contact and use it to repair itself. Due to the exhaustion of the blood resources on the surface, V1 and other fictional machines enter a Divine Comedy-inspired version of Hell in a search for more fuel. Over the course of the game, V1 descends through nine layers -each inspired by a different sin, such as lust, greed, and heresy - and kills the inhabitants of Hell it meets along the way, wheather angels, other machines, or the rebellious sinners themselves.

The current structure of the game consists of three “Acts”, each of which generally contain three layers, which in turn consist of multiple levels. Each layer cumulates in a boss fight against a particularly strong or narratively significant enemy. Examples include V2, another prototype machine and V1’s nemesis; a Minotaur inspired by Greek mythology; and Gabriel, a biblical archangel who repeatedly attempts to impede the player’s progress. Eight layers (a “prelude” introductory sequence as well as the first seven layers of the Inferno) are currently available to play, with the others to be released in the near future.

Story progression and exposition is generally delivered through (often hidden) texts that can be found throughout the levels. An exception to this rule is the interludes between each act, which take the form of illustrated dialogues similar to the post-episode text used to convey narrative in classic first-person shooters such as Doom or Quake. The first of these narrates Gabriel’s humiliation after his initial defeat by the protagonist and the 24-hour ultimatum given to him by an anonymous heavenly “Council” to fix his mistake. The second, which takes place after the angel’s second loss at the hands of V1, shows the crisis of faith he experiences and his choice to rebel against and slaughter the entire Council. Ivannilych (talk) 22:08, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

notes i guess

• the game takes place long after 2112, that's just when v1 got its last firmware update
• the cause of humanity's extinction is currently unknown, only that it took "minutes". the earthmover's entry actually reveals that machines in the final war were not what caused it though
• don't really think noting the christianity and dante's fanfic all over the game is necessary. not multiple times, at least. i believe they could be moved to the lead
• absolutely no need to explain that the layers of h*ck (sorry, my mom doesn't let me swear) are based on dante's torture porn, or that the minotaur is a greek yŏkai
• "v1's nemesis"? i thought the entire point was that machines like it just shot and maybe styled on anything that looked like it might have blood
• curly quotes bad
• the third paragraph seems either unnecessary or ripe for shortening, and the council only seems anonymous because the plot doesn't give a shit about who they are cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 22:46, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Good points, i basically agree with everything you said. although i do think its good to make note of the various references because of how closely the game adheres to them. You're right about the third paragraph also, it seems a little unnessacary to me now. or could be explained in the gameplay section Ivannilych (talk) 22:50, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

i thought i sent the response here, but it seems i forgot, so sorry for the absence

i'd suggest something like

In the future, humanity has been rendered extinct by unknown causes, and the Christian god has disappeared, leaving Heaven without a ruler. Due to the exhaustion of blood sources on Earth, several blood-fueled machines, among them the player character V1, have gone to Hell in search for blood. V1 fights husks (manifestations of the souls of the damned), demons (statue-like creatures made to guard Hell), competing machines, and angels (manifestations of the souls of the virtuous, or beings created to serve Heaven) while going down the layers of Hell, culminating in a fight against the archangel Gabriel. Following his defeat at V1's hands, the council of Heaven, who have begun to rule Heaven in God's absence, strip Gabriel of his holy light, leaving him with 24 hours to live, and order him to fight it again.

granted, it only talks about what happens in act 1, but wikipedia doesn't usually mention entire plots unless they're extensively mentioned in sources (see undertale) or inseparable from any given piece of media (see... undertale), which i don't think ultrakill's is either of, honestly cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 17:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

seems good to me Ivannilych (talk) 18:18, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Consensus to remove citation template

Given that there has been a massive improvement to citations^[[1]] on this article, how do we feel about removing the template? vghfr 02:01, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

considering that all but two of the current citations are either official pages related to the game or in-universe info, i'm actually inclined to disagree

there WAS another source, but it was about the sex update, which got removed twice cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 02:20, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles tend to prefer secondary sourcing (primary sourcing is sometimes acceptable), which this article desperately needs. In the articles current state, the game theoretically doesn't even meet the general notability guidelines, where the general recommendation is three sources. Additionally, the gameplay is excessively detailed and I personally disagreed with the rewrite tag being revoked.

TLDR: The sourcing tag shouldn't be removed. λ NegativeMP1 03:03, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Alright, my bad. vghfr 03:09, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

while the prod goes on...

per another, excessively short conversation on the discord, it would be a good idea if i tried to open up a discussion regarding that paragraph about the sex update again

on 3/25/23, a statement was added about the ultrakill "sex update" (not an update or actually about sex), which was then removed in 11/29 over a weak link between the mod and game's devs

then, on 12/6, after a discussion somewhere up on this talk page went nowhere, i added it back, and it was removed 18 days later for not being relevant

and today, i added it back again in the middle of the proposed deletion-avoiding measures, and was then informed that that might have been a bad idea

so to be sure, would it be a good idea to keep that paragraph there, or should it be removed from the article? cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 23:07, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

on engvar

minor thing for future copyediting purposes

what variety of english should this article be in?

the game seems to just use both (though you could make an argument for british as of layer 7, with the guttertank's entry and the boss's "defence system"), and the article currently has exactly one word that differs from american to british english ("realises", in paragraph 2 of the plot), so... british? cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 18:46, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

On the game's Stylish Action influences

Hi! There's a few things that bother me about this article, but the main thing is that mention of "Stylish Action" games such as Devil May Cry is relegated to talk about the style meter, missing their great influence on the game's design. It's a fusion between movement-based FPS games and Stylish Action games, in my opinion — and at a higher level of play, it really feels much more in line with Devil May Cry and Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance than momentum-based shooters like Quake and Titanfall.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there's a consensus on what "Stylish Action" games are actually called in the general zeitgeist, and wouldn't know where to even find a page for that on Wikipedia, so I understand why it isn't already mentioned. I do feel, however, that it gives a false impression of the game being a "DOOM-like" when it's very, very different from games of the DOOM lineage. Compare to DUSK, for example. Corviraptor (talk) 16:05, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

enemies section

I think we should add a brief section about the enemies in Ultrakill as they are an important part of the game, there's lot that many of them and where a lot of the lore comes form (we need not add charters from secret levels or areas because they have nothing to do with the rest of the game and most are jokes)

foe example

schism: a creature made where 2 souls materialize in the same spot in hell fusing them. fires three projectiles in a horizontal or vertical line Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 21:57, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Please see WP:NOTGAMEGUIDE, what you're proposing is not appropriate for Wikipedia. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 22:06, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

fair I guess Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 22:11, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

More lore

I think the plot sections is a bit too focused on the Gabriel plot line, which is a pretty small part of the game lore

I think the plot section should focus on the final war/hell parts a bit more as those get more attention than Gabriel and are seen by most player (viva the terminal)

not too much, this is not the ultrakill wiki but a little more

plus a passing mention that the game that hell is alive Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 22:19, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

short answer: too much wordage, too much spoilerage

long answer: this isn't really a detailed rendition of the entire lore, as ultrakill isn't inseparable from its plot like blunderfail or peakhood, and even then there'd be the soft 700 word limit around to stop people from gushing about the funny arg spoiler character for too long

as is, i think it's fine. it mentions everything that happens in a normal playthrough where you don't make a vow of celibacy to get to minnows and syphilis prime

legal note: i do not actually dislike undertale cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 23:36, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm asking for much just a bit more lore I don't a full background but the plot with Gabriel is pretty small all things considered. As so the "most people will see" thing most comes from a terminal at the start at the level

also as is it only revealed in a whole solved arg and not in the game I think it's enough to get a passing mention like "ultrakill takes place in a living/hyper-intelligent hell..." instead of just hell

also sorry for taking a while to reply Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 17:10, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

also

• minos and ssisyphus prime Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 20:44, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

i added a Final War section. Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 15:01, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

why does the plot section mention the city of dis

is it even confirmed it is the city of dis? 188.171.171.232 (talk) 16:56, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

yeah, it's like the one thing heresy has going for it as a place. don't think it really needs a source beyond what's mentioned in the inferno's article cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 22:21, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

yeah but from what I've seen the greed cycle isn't a desert in the inferno, so I think we need more than "oh it was in the inferno" as it is clearly not one to one Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 17:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

i removed it Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 16:10, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

im pretty sure the name dis is used in game ill have to check though Ivannilych (talk) 13:15, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Change the page to proper stylization?

Its bugging be that the page is Ultrakill not ULTRAKILL. I'm not sure if its intentionally not stylized. Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 14:55, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, see MOS:ALLCAPS. Woodroar (talk) 17:48, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Thoughts from a random editor

I happened upon this article, and I did some copy-editing on the plot section.
I feel that the plot section is overly detailed, hence why I included the template to reduce it. I don't know enough about the game to actually cut the plot summary down, but I would think that a casual reader wouldn't need so many details (especially the bits about the in a Wiki article. If they want that information, they can find it elsewhere.
I don't know a lot about how Wikipedia runs yet, but maybe a second article could be made to discuss the different machines (enemies, characters, etc) encountered in the game? I've seen that done before, so you could discuss the characters in detail without bogging down the main article. > Cellina Starfire: talk? 15:23, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

No, I don't think it warrants a second article. I made those changes so feel free to summarize as you feel necessary. The Final War section is a tad long winded but is extremely important to the plot. Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 15:28, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

If you don't know much about the game you should stick to copy editing, I did the Final War section by myself in hopes that other people will come in and cut it down. The Final War is integral to the plot as its the backstory behind the machines and many people may come to the ULTRAKILL wikipedia in order to read about the Final War synopsis. Although I agree it doesn't need to be so long winded since there is also a dedicated ULTRAKILL wiki separate from Wikipedia. I will probably cut it down myself. Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 15:32, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

thanks for your help on making the Final War section about as long as the Gabriel section, I removed the template. Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 15:50, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

"If you don't know much about the game you should stick to copy editing". Imagine I'd say something like "if you don't know much about copy-editing, stick to playing the game". Your edits are not helping. If there is a dedicated wiki out there, that is the place for that. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 17:06, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

And try to follow bold, revert, discuss. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 17:16, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

The part on the final war is important for the wikipedia page since it is a integral part to the game, the dedicated wiki is for extended detail. Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 17:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

If it's important, then find a reliable, secondary/independent sources per WP:BURDEN. This all strikes me as WP:GAMEGUIDE content. Woodroar (talk) 17:47, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

its not a game guide its part of the story. Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 17:58, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Plot sections are supposed to be brief summaries of what happens in the game, and we generally don't include a lot of detail about specific fictional elements. If we need to understand the Final War to understand the game itself, then surely a reliable source would have covered it in detail—and then we can summarize and cite that source. Woodroar (talk) 18:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

There is seriously no reason for this, I keep asking him to make edits or use the talk page but he continues to do it anyway. Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 17:27, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Add Violence layer to the Plot section?

It may be a good idea to update on the plot summary up to the end of the Violence layer. Showing V1's feat of bringing down Benjamin. While a good idea, I think it may be redundant, considering the summary itself goes thru the story act by act instead of going through the specifics of each layer. Any thoughts? JokerPuncture (talk) 13:31, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

impo, wp:bold my guy. if u can get the citations to get the section rolling, i think you've got a good enough support here to help continue it. [as a niche copyeditor myself i literally wouldnt mind helping copyedit once you publish] -Astral~(he/him/his) 16:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

add layers?

should we tell people the current layers in the game as of the time of edit until all of them

it's same as the inferno but not all are in yet just so people now the basic of the what's in the game now just level/"world"-wise

I don't know where this will go or if it's to far in the game info to be WP:GAMEGUIDE or not Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 15:24, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

living hell

hell is alive but it is not stated anywhere in game, but it seems important to get ONLY a PASSING mention (ex: saying livng hell instead of just hell) but I have no idea where to put it Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 17:06, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Tangential bits of plot that don't even merit a mention in the work itself are definitely unfit for a wikipedia article. Remember that the game also has it's own wiki for that sort of thing. Ivannilych (talk) 16:53, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

"its", not "it's"!!

pettiness aside, the "finer details" of the plot (like why v1 doesn't take fall damage like that red loser) can very easily be considered fancruft, so i think the bare basics should do cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 17:11, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

i think i already edited this out, but it shouldn't be included since its vague in the game, and the information already exists on the fan wiki Hellaciousphlegm (talk) 16:18, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

It's not like I'm doing in detail

It would be one PASSING mention

I think this page on the free online encyclopedia can a little skin

so please if you will, if you are just going to say that this honestly kinda big part of the game's setting shouldn't get a passing mention, just like delete it

also I thought it was deleted cause it was in the game play part of the wiki which didn't need that in it

have a good day =) Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 17:03, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

since the "living" part of "living hell" is only hinted in layer 7 and revealed in an arg, i'd still say no

also that third sentence didn't make the slightest bit of sense cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 17:26, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

should we part the hell part in the start of the page

the setting is a pretty big part of the game, I mean it's on the box art so I think it should be part the start of the page Skeletons are the axiom (talk) 17:07, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

did you mean "put"? cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 17:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

act I section is too long

corpse of kinos and v2 should only get a passing mention and husk explanation is unecessary. maybe some more small edits but english is my second language so im not very qualified for that. Errrrrma (talk) 06:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

you could still be bold and do that yourself

but the way i see it, most of the background info is best included in act 1, assuming it should even be included in the first place

though i wouldn't be opposed to removing most of the fluff and just including what's directly presented in act 1 cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 11:22, 26 April 2024 (UTC)