Talk:Varman dynasty (Bengal)
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Anga or Vanga[edit]
@Adhinayaka: Lets' have a WP:CONSENSUS here first. This source states that Varmans followed the same route as Rajendra Chola to reach southern Vanga, which technically wouldn't touch Anga, something that you removed here. Secondly, this source doesn't mention Jatavarman. Third, this source clearly mentions that "Varman" son-in-law of Cedi ruled Anga for "sometime". Fourth, I don't see any mention of Anga being captured first is written in the sources in conjunction with the copperplates. All the sources say abot the marriage of Jatavarman and/or him controlling Anga [1] [2], which you have removed rearranged in your edits. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:54, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- First, This source is just an observation of DC Ganguly. Secondly, this source clearly states that Jatavarman first became the master of Anga. His power was based in Anga.1 Third, although some scholars consider Vajravarman to be the founder of the dynasty but the Belava plate mentions him only as a leader of Yadava army, a poet and a scholar. His son Jatavarman is supposed to be the first king of the family. 2 3 Adhinayaka (talk) 18:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Adhinayaka: This British Era source, uses the phrase "said to be", which again is just an observation (not a clear declaration) similar to DC Ganguly's source, not to mention I only see "Jatav" "master" and it-and-pieces of information (snippet views are problematic). Most importantly, which I forgot to mention and you possibly are not aware of is that sources from the British Raj era sources are not considered reliable in Wikipedia. There have been consensus on this, hence this, this and this are invalid, leaving only this one. This (page 11) is another source that mentions migration of Varmans from southern India like the Sena. Anyway, have to have opinion from other veterans on the topic as well as the sources (Journals from "Indian Research Institute" [3]), whether they are reliable in Wikipedia. Pinging @Sitush and Utcursch:. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Fylindfotberserk I'm not familiar with the Varman dynasty but the basic "rule" of WP:RAJ certainly applies in this discussion. Call me stupid but I've never come across the Indian Research Institute, which is a surprise given how long I have been involved with the Indian history etc topic area. It's also a bit of a worry: there are a multitude of grand-sounding pseudo-academic bodies in India with lax standards and axes to grind, of which this might be one. Some are even affiliated or recognised by government and/or universities, eg: several in Orissa. I would have to dig further. - Sitush (talk) 21:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Adhinayaka: This British Era source, uses the phrase "said to be", which again is just an observation (not a clear declaration) similar to DC Ganguly's source, not to mention I only see "Jatav" "master" and it-and-pieces of information (snippet views are problematic). Most importantly, which I forgot to mention and you possibly are not aware of is that sources from the British Raj era sources are not considered reliable in Wikipedia. There have been consensus on this, hence this, this and this are invalid, leaving only this one. This (page 11) is another source that mentions migration of Varmans from southern India like the Sena. Anyway, have to have opinion from other veterans on the topic as well as the sources (Journals from "Indian Research Institute" [3]), whether they are reliable in Wikipedia. Pinging @Sitush and Utcursch:. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)