Talk:Vinkensport/Archive 1

Dialects

I removed the section confirming the dialects and "subspecies" status of Flanders and Wallonia finches, as a simple affirmation of the existence of a difference in finches from Flanders and Wallonia in any respect was not supported by a reference in a reliable published source. I have seen no scientific evidence or taxonomy to suggest that there are two subspecies of chaffinch in Belgium. A previous cited mention from the New York Times/ International Herald Tribune as to the fact that vinkeniers believe there to be dialects is present. VanTucky 20:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

• • Being the writer of the removed section, I just want to point to the fact that I live in Flanders and I can guarantee there are so called Flemish finches which end their song with 'susk-e-weet', and other finches (Walloons), which do not. I never claimed these finches are a different subspecies. Waiting to take up this information until some American news paper publishes this information correctly is like Waiting for Godot: it will never happen. Americans hardly know Belgium is a bilingual country, let alone they would understand anything about Flemish and Walloon finches! Fortinbras 12:07, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
  • the removed passage: Finches sing a phrase (song) and they repeat it again and again. In a natural environment, there are many variations on the song. The so called Flemish finch ends each phrase with "susk-e-wiet", which is an onomatopea. During competitions, people count the number of 'susk-e-wiets' they hear, and the highest count is the winner. The Walloon finches, often mistakingly called French finches, do not end their song like that, and therefore cannot be used in competitions. The word 'Walloon', here, does not really refer to the language of the French speaking community in Belgium, but holds its older, etymological meaning, being: speaking a foreign/different language (here: singing a different song). (This older meaning is also present in the words Wallonia, Wales and Wallis (Switserland). In the wild, Flemish and Walloon finches can be heard in both parts of Belgium.

Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~) That's very interesting, and it may very well be that finches from the geographic region of Walloon sing a different call than those from Flanders. However, the test for inclusion is verifiability, not truth. No reliable published sources were provided for the claim, so it is not fit for inclusion. A reliable published source is not necessarily a U.S. one, though it should be an English language source or a translation with the correlating original source, as this the English Wikipedia. VanTucky 06:26, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

• • About the origin of the word 'Walloon' or 'Wales':

WORD HISTORY Although Celtic-speaking peoples were living in Britain before the arrival of the invaders from Friesland and Jutland whose languages would eventually develop into English, it was the Celts and not the invaders who came to be called “strangers” in English. Our words for the descendants of one of the Celtish peoples, Welsh, and for their homeland, Wales, come from the Old English word wealh, meaning “foreigner, stranger, Celt.” Its plural wealas is the direct ancestor of Wales, literally “foreigners.” The Old English adjective derived from wealh, wælisc or welisc, is the source of our Welsh. The Germanic form for the root from which wealh descended was *walh–, “foreign.” We also have attested once in Old English the compound walhhnutu in a document from around 1050; its next recording appears in 1358 as walnottes. This eventually became walnut in Modern English, which is thus literally the “foreign nut.” The nut was “foreign” because it was native to Roman Gaul and Italy. Source: www.answers.com Fortinbras 12:09, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, first of all, none of this is a reference for regional dialects in the Chaffinch. Not to mention that answers.com is not generally considered a reliable published source. They often simply copy content from Wikipedia articles in fact. Also, explaining that when people say Walloon finches they don't mean the birds are literally tied to the French-speaking Belgian population doesn't legitimize the supposed existence of Chaffinch regional dialects. VanTucky 21:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Move

In consideration of the fact that all of the English published sources prefer the term vinkensport (the New York Times never even mentions the name vinkenzetting), and that there are about a thousand more Google hits for vinkensport, I have moved the article. VanTucky ^Talk 18:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)