Talk:Vishwakarma (caste)

Generally no accepted connection to brahmins.

Generally no accepted connections to Brahmins. This part has to be removed because it gives wrong information to people and creates confusion and some type of discrimination within the same brahmin community. The purusha sukta in vedas mentions community belonging to brahmin varna. 59.93.100.81 (talk) 19:21, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Is there any genetic relation between people belong to viswakarma caste and brahmins?

Does both have a common ancester? 117.219.52.228 (talk) 08:08, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Correct 117.219.63.113 (talk) 14:33, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree to this. This creates problems among the community and is also a hate speech. Dheeraj L D (talk) 05:05, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree to this, The people who are well versed in the Veda and Upd-Veda do consider people who are decedents from Vishwakarma as Brahmin. And some don't because they do not have proper knowledge of Hindu Scriptures. So if anyone deny the fact then they should present some kind of evidence from Hindu Scriptures.

जगद्गुरु शंकराचार्य स्वामी श्री निश्चलानंद सरस्वती जी who is well versed in most of the Hindu scriptures. He said that Vishwakarma belongs to Brahmin Lineage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hshZiSE8ao

Even In Indian Govt, Most of the Vishwakarma's castes like Jangid and Dhiman are listed as Jangid-Brahmin and Dhiman-Brahmin. 121.244.202.71 (talk) 12:56, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2022

The information given in the article is wrong and you should read the history of Vishwakarma brahmins in Vedas, and then correct it here. 223.227.81.46 (talk) 07:09, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 💜  melecie  talk - 07:50, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

https://archive.org/details/brahmotpatti-martand-in-brihat-jyotisharnava-skandha-6-hari-krishna-shastri/page/n573/mode/2up?view=theater

In this book, we have detail about the origin of all the brahmins. At page number 572, You can check the origin of Jangid and Panchal brahmin. Panchal means the five children of Vishwakarma Manu, Maya, Tvastar, Shilpi and Visvajna. Hope you understand the Hindi.

Thanks! 121.244.202.71 (talk) 13:07, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/the-skanda-purana/d/doc423825.html

Skanda purana - Read line number 3 and 4

3. Formerly there was Viśvakarman who was another physical form of Brahmā (the Creator). He was the son of Patriarch Tvaṣṭṛ. He was (indeed) clever in all arts and crafts.

4. After being invested with the sacred thread, the boy was living in the abode of his preceptor (for education). He had his daily meal out of the alms of cooked rice he got. He served his preceptor duly. 49.36.220.35 (talk) 20:17, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 January 2023

Vishwabrahmins belong to the ancient cult of brahmin varna, who were basically involved in metallurgy and temple’s vasthu designers Vanilabar (talk) 08:20, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 10:45, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

https://archive.org/details/brahmotpatti-martand-in-brihat-jyotisharnava-skandha-6-hari-krishna-shastri/page/n573/mode/2up?view=theater

In this book, we have detail about the origin of all the brahmins. At page number 572, You can check the origin of Jangid and Panchal brahmin. Panchal means the five children of Vishwakarma Manu, Maya, Tvastar, Shilpi and Visvajna. Hope you understand the Hindi. 121.244.202.71 (talk) 13:09, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello User:BlackOrchidd and/or IP editor: you have been asked to provide reliable source(s), typically by modern scholars / reliable authors published by a reputed publisher. I have gone through the text, is this a reliable source? No! Have you checked the author's credentials or the publisher? Not done. Ekdalian (talk) 07:56, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Sir, with due respect i ask to you that have you any reliable sources , typically by modern scholars? Where clearly said Vishwakarma caste has no connections with Brahmins and he use Vishwa Brahmins for claim high status.There is any please provide me the reliable sources and if there is not then i request to you that please remove this word from Vishwakarma caste that he use Vishwa Brahmins for claim high status. Userabhishekthakur (talk) 02:53, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 March 2023

Remove below lines

although having no general connection to the Brahmins, they use the term 'Brahmin' at the end of their community name. Vishwakarma are a social group of India, sometimes described as a caste. Vishwabrahman52 (talk) 16:34, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Actualcpscm (talk) 16:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

https://archive.org/details/brahmotpatti-martand-in-brihat-jyotisharnava-skandha-6-hari-krishna-shastri/page/n573/mode/2up?view=theater

In this book, we have detail about the origin of all the brahmins. At page number 572, You can check the origin of Jangid and Panchal brahmin. Panchal means the five children of Vishwakarma Manu, Maya, Tvastar, Shilpi and Visvajna. Hope you understand the Hindi. 121.244.202.71 (talk) 13:43, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Who is the author? What are their credentials? Is this a reliable publisher? No! Please find reliable source(s); this is not a WP:RS. Thanks! Ekdalian (talk) 17:57, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

All the details are mentioned in the book link itself.

Yes its a reliable publisher. There are other books Brahmin Gotra and Vanshavali, Brahmano utpati. In all the books you will find the reference Panchal brahmin. 171.76.87.29 (talk) 09:52, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

You have the option to start a new discussion at WP:RSN and establish that the above source is reliable through consensus! Ekdalian (talk) 18:38, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Generally no accepted connection to brahmins.

Inspite of people providing all proper evidences of Vishwakarma being Brahmins the author still seems to be spreading hatred among people. First of all such statements should not be promoted from a platform like Wikipedia whose authenticity cannot even be proved by the author. Also the author should then proper evidences and citations if he considers the other way round of Vishwakarma's no direct connection to brahmin. Anyhow, such statements should be removed immediately whose source for truthfulness can not even be proved by the author. And this platform is not represent view of any specific person but should be based on facts. Nehasharma999 (talk) 19:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I have tweaked the language somewhat, not because it is unsupported or supposedly hurtful to some, but because it does not follow the recommended structure of the first sentence of a wikipedia article. The lede sentence is supposed to provide a quick definition/context of the subject while the version you were objecting to, was getting lost in the semantics of the alternate name, Vishwabrahmin. The information about the generally-not-accepted Brahmin status of Vishwakarma is still in the lede although I have reworded it a bit to better reflect the Position in society section. Pinging @Ekdalian: to review my changes to make sure that the language is appropriate, and to see if they can improve it any further. Abecedare (talk) 19:49, 7 May 2023 (UTC) Retry pinging @Ekdalian:. Abecedare (talk) 19:50, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Abecedare. Let me edit the article (tweaks) in order to represent better that this is simply a claim by the community similar to claims by various other communities, and not accepted by other communities, as you have rightly mentioned! You may review my edit as well and tweak it further, if required! Thanks, again. Ekdalian (talk) 06:48, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 May 2023

The page is clearly showing degrading statements towards the community, it requires to edit and publishing appropriate and authentic information. Ganavarapu (talk) 12:55, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

And you are clearly showing you are only here for caste promotion. Bishonen | tålk 13:41, 18 May 2023 (UTC).

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 August 2023

vishwakarma is a Brahmin caste which has higher caste position and no one declines it. Those were the old claims written, even priest only do the scared thread rituals to vishwakarma community and do accept that they are brahmin. 103.216.68.148 (talk) 13:09, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done It is not clear what change you would like to see in the article. Please use a "change X to Y" format and please provide reliable sources in support of the suggested change. RegentsPark (comment) 14:34, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

No one has till now provided any reliable & verifiable source. Read WP:RS, WP:V and provide such source(s)! Ekdalian (talk) 14:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Vishwakarma caste of Lohara, Jangid, Dhiman are the connections with Vedas. Below i give you some proofs about this, that is Vishwakarma caste is directly connected with Vishwa Brahmin.

देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी भगवान विश्वकर्मा जी के श्रेष्ठ ब्राह्मण कुल वंश का शास्त्रीय प्रमाण।

सनातन वैदिक हिंदू धर्म में देवताओं के आचार्य एवं शिल्पी के रूप में वेद शास्त्र में प्रतिष्ठित देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी भगवान विश्वकर्मा देवता की श्रेणी में होते हुए भी ब्राह्मण जाति के हैं जैसे देवगुरु बृहस्पति हैं। देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी विश्वकर्मा जी का कुल वंश भी शुद्ध रूप से ब्राह्मण कुल है। सर्वप्रथम, निम्न विष्णु पुराण के प्रमाण से हम भगवान विश्वकर्मा जी के माता-पिता के कुल वंश के सन्दर्भ में प्रमाण प्रस्तुत करेंगे ;

• बृहस्पतेस्तु भगिनी वरस्त्री ब्रह्मचारिणी ।*
• योगसिद्धा जगत्कृत्स्नमसक्ता विचरत्युत ।*
• प्रभासस्य तु सा भार्या वसूनामष्टमस्य तु ॥*
• विश्वकर्मा महाभागस्तस्यां जज्ञे प्रजापतिः।*
• कर्ता शिल्पसहस्राणां त्रिदशानां च वार्धकिः॥*

 - (विष्णुपुराण/प्रथमांश:/अध्याय -१५, श्लोक - ११८-११९)

अर्थात - देवगुरु बृहस्पति की बहन वरस्त्री(भुवना), जो ब्रह्मचारिणी थी और सिद्ध योगिनी थी तथा अनासक्त भाव से समस्त भूमंडल में विचरती थी, वो आठवें वसु प्रभास की धर्मपत्नी हुई। उन्हीं के पुत्र रूप में सहस्त्रों शिल्पों के कर्ता , देवताओं के शिल्पी एवं आचार्य महाभाग अर्थात महाभाग्यशाली प्रजापति देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी विश्वकर्मा प्रकट हुए। ऊपर प्रस्तुत किये गए शास्त्रीय प्रमाणों से यह ज्ञात होता है कि देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी भगवान विश्वकर्मा की माता जी ब्राह्मण श्रेष्ठ देवगुरु बृहस्पति की बहन एवं ब्रह्मऋषि अंगिरा की पुत्री हैं, उनके पिता धर्म ऋषि के पुत्र आठवें वसु प्रभास हैं। उपर्युक्त प्रमाणों से यह सिद्ध होता है कि विश्वकर्मा जी की माता वरस्त्री(भुवना) शुद्ध रूप से ब्राह्मण कुल की थी क्योंकि वह ब्राह्मण श्रेष्ठ देवगुरु बृहस्पति की बहन और ब्रह्मऋषि अंगिरा की पुत्री थी उनको ब्रह्मवादिनी और योगसिद्धा भी कहा गया है।

अब हम आपको भविष्य पुराण के प्रमाणों से देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी भगवान विश्वकर्मा जी के पिता अष्टम वसु ऋषि प्रभास के ब्राह्मण कुल के होने का का प्रमाण प्रस्तुत करेंगे। ब्रह्मा के पुत्र धर्म और धर्म के पुत्र अष्टम वसु प्रभास शुद्ध रूप से ब्राह्मण जाति के हैं इसका प्रमाण भविष्य पुराण के एक कथा से प्रमाणित होता है जिसमें सूत जी महर्षि शौनक को वसुओं की उत्पत्ति एवं कुल वंश का परिचय देते हैं ;

• रुद्रांशश्चैव दुर्वासाः प्रत्यूषः सप्तमो वसुः ।*
• दत्तात्रेयमयो योगी प्रभासश्चाष्टमो वसुः ।।* ८२
• प्रभासो वै शांतिपुरे ब्रह्मजात्यां समुद्भवः ।*
• इति ते वसुमाहात्म्यं मया शौनक वर्णितम् ।।* ८८

(भविष्यपुराण/पर्व ३ (प्रतिसर्गपर्व)/खण्ड-४/अध्याय-१७ / श्लोक - ८२ व ८८) अर्थात - रुद्र के अंश से उत्पन्न दुर्वासा 'प्रत्यूष' नामक सातवें वसु हैं। दत्तात्रेय के अवतार योगी 'प्रभास' अष्टम वसु हैं। वसु प्रभास शांतिपुरी में ब्राह्मण के कुल में उत्पन्न हुए थे। हे शौनक! मैंने तुमसे वसुओं की महानता का वर्णन किया।

सभी को यह ज्ञात होना चाहिए कि शास्त्रों के अनुसार अष्टम वसु प्रभास धर्म ऋषि के पुत्र हैं और धर्म ऋषि ब्रह्मा जी के पुत्र हैं। धर्म ऋषि का विवाह दक्ष कन्या वसु से हुआ था जिस कारण धर्म ऋषि के आंठों पुत्र वसु या वसुगण कहलाते हैं जिनमें से आठवें वसु प्रभाष जी के पुत्र देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी भगवान विश्वकर्मा जी हैं। उपर्युक्त, सभी प्रमाणों से यह सिद्ध होता है कि भगवान विश्वकर्मा जी शुद्ध रूप से ब्राह्मण माता-पिता की संतान हैं।

• भगवान विश्वकर्मा जी को शास्त्रों में देवाचार्य , श्रेष्ठ देवता और श्रेष्ठ ब्राह्मण होने का प्रमाण*

• देवाचार्यस्य तस्येयं दुहिता विश्वकर्मणः।*
• सुरेणुरिति विख्याता त्रिषु लोकेषु भामिनी ॥*

 - (स्कन्दपुराण/खण्डः ७ (प्रभासखण्ड)/प्रभासक्षेत्र माहात्म्यम्/अध्यायः ०११/श्लोक - ७५)

अर्थात - देवताओं के आचार्य विश्वकर्मा की सुंदर पुत्री जो है वो तीनों लोकों में सुरेणु के नाम से प्रसिद्ध है।

• तस्मिन्नेव ततः काले शिल्पाचार्यो महामतिः।*
• विश्वकर्मा सुरश्रेष्ठः कृष्णस्य प्रमुखे स्थितः॥*

(हरिवंशपुराण/पर्व २ (विष्णुपर्व)/अध्यायः ०५८,श्लोक -२२) 

अर्थात - उसी क्षण देवताओं में श्रेष्ठ महान बुद्धिजीवी देवताओं के शिल्प के आचार्य विश्वकर्मा जी भगवान कृष्ण के सामने प्रकट हुए।

• तदेष त्रिदशाचार्यः सर्वसिद्धिप्रवर्तकः।*
• सुतः प्रभासस्य विभोः स्वस्रीयश्च बृहस्पतेः॥*

(राजा भोज रचित समरांगण सूत्रधार-अध्याय - १,श्लोक -१९) अर्थात -वह (त्वष्टा प्रजापति विश्वकर्मा जी) देवताओं के आचार्य हैं और सभी सिद्धियों के अधिष्ठाता हैं। ये अष्टम वसु प्रभाष के पुत्र औऱ देवगुरू बृहस्पति के भांजे हैं।

• शातनं तेजसो मेऽद्य क्रियतामिति भास्करः।*
• तञ्चाह विश्वकर्माणं संज्ञायाः पितरं द्विज॥*

  - (मार्कण्डेयपुराण/अध्याय - ७७/श्लोक - ४१)

अर्थात - संज्ञा के पिता विश्वकर्मा जी से सूर्य ने कहा - हे ब्राह्मण , आप मेरा तेज घटा दीजिये।

उपर्युक्त, प्रमाणों से ये सिद्ध होता है कि देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी विश्वकर्मा जी शुद्ध ब्राह्मण कुल के हैं। साथ ही ऊपर प्रमाणों से ये भी सिद्ध हो चुका है कि भगवान विश्वकर्मा जी के माता पिता शुद्ध रूप से ब्राह्मण कुल जाति के हैं। एक और बात सभी को विदित रहे की देवाचार्य देवशिल्पी भगवान विश्वकर्मा के पुत्र विश्वरूप हैं जो देवताओं के आचार्य पुरोहित थे उनकी हत्या के कारण देवराज इंद्र को ब्रह्महत्या का पाप लगा था इसके प्रमाण भी अनेक शास्त्रों में अंकित हैं इसकी पुष्टि सभी विद्वान कर सकते हैं।

Userabhishekthakur (talk) 02:08, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Userabhishekthakur, why don't you understand! We need the views of modern reliable authors/historians, as per WP:RS, WP:V. Primary sources like Vedas and Puranas cannot be cited; read WP:PRIMARY. Ekdalian (talk) 07:49, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2023

Change "They prefer the alternate name, Vishwabrahmin, and claim themselves to be Brahmin or of high-status in the caste hierarchy, although these claims are not generally accepted outside the community." to "They are also known as Vishwabrahmin and belong in the top of the caste hierarchy."

Change "In Kerala, the Vishwakarmas have claimed a higher social status for many years, and believe that the trades which they traditionally follow are superior to the work of a manual labourer because they require artistic and scientific skills as well as those of the hand." to "In Kerala, the Vishwakarmas have a higher social status as their trades which they traditionally follow are superior since it requires artistic, mathematical and scientific skills as well as those of the hand."

Change "This claim to Brahmin status is not generally accepted outside the community, despite their assumption of some high-caste traits, such as wearing the sacred thread, and the Brahminisation of their rituals. For example, the sociologist M. N. Srinivas, who developed the concept of sanskritisation, juxtaposed the success of the Lingayat caste in achieving advancement within Karnataka society by such means with the failure of the Vishwakarma to achieve the same. Their position as a left-hand caste has not aided their ambition.[12] They have been included in the list of Other Backward Classes in some states of India." to "They do not claim to have a status equal to Brahmins but they assume some traits from Brahmins as they believe to descendants of Lord Vishwakarma and also because of their holy work of constructing temples, temple idols and jewels for gods. " AMV050605 (talk) 09:17, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Hey AMV050605, why are you asking to change reliably sourced content along with an NPOV statement clarifying their actual status? You have not even provided any reliable & verifiable source which contradicts these statements! Wikipedia doesn't allow original research and unsourced caste promotion/glorification! Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 10:38, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 November 2023

117.251.238.91 (talk) 01:36, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

ఆంధ్రప్రదేశ్ లో విశ్వబ్రాహ్మణులు / విశ్వకర్మలు అనేక ఉప కులాలను కలిగి ఉన్నారు:

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. and please post your request in English. RudolfRed (talk) 01:54, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 November 2023

Ashokkbhalse (talk) 17:51, 25 November 2023 (UTC) Hey I found something about Vishwakarma community which is related to their gotra hierarchy. As this article is semi protected i am unable to that information.

@Ashokkbhalse:  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Edward-Woodrow (talk) 23:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Toddy skilled persons belongs Goud's so I suggest an edit for కల్లు గీత కార్మికుల from Telugu version of Wikipedia

Toddy skilled persons belongs Goud's so I suggest an edit for కల్లు గీత కార్మికుల from Telugu version of Wikipedia . U must know the difference. No viswabrahmin or viswakarma belongs to the work or toddy or Goud's. Both are different professions. 183.83.239.229 (talk) 07:36, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 March 2024

Generally no connection with brahman( remove this line ) VedanandVishwa70 (talk) 07:46, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Please note that this statement is an integral part of the lede, and is a result of consensus among experienced editors (especially caste/social group related) of the community! Read WP:CONSENSUS. Ekdalian (talk) 12:39, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Notable people in Vishwakarma caste

Give a notable people page in Google page and Vishwakarma caste Wikipedia 2409:4043:6ECB:6439:8C86:963D:C9AF:DFFA (talk) 12:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)