Talk:Volvo Cars/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Buyouts

The section in merger/buyout portion of the article that describes BMW investigating possibly buying Volvo needs citation, as does the rest of the section. However, due to the rest of the section already having occurred, and the BMW part being a possibility, priority should be given to the BMW section. At any rate the sentence as currently worded "Sources say it may be a good company to acquire Volvo, instead the last time which BMW bought the troubled Rover Group in 1994 and sold off in 2000" makes no sense at all.

BMW has denied the intentions on October 26th, 2008.

Norum (talk) 13:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Safety

"To add to its SIPS in 1995 Volvo was the first to introduce side airbags and installed them as standard equipment in all models in 1995."

I have a 1995 Volvo 960 and I do not have side airbags, so this cannot be true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.237.221 (talk) 13:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

The original page is slightly incorrect. At the start of the 1995 model year, Side Impact Protection (SIPs) bags were standard on high line Volvo 850s, and optional on other 850s. By the middle of the production year, they were standard on all 850s. In Model Year 1996 SIPs bags were standard on all Volvo models. Rickster

Reputation in Question Section

This section of the article doesn't read like an encylopedia -- whatever point is underlying this section, its obtuse at best. The anecdotal information about the Wasselone incident seems very out of place -- every manufacturer of note must have a huge lawsuit file.

The section needs attention. 842U (talk) 10:43, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

'C-Pillar issue with th 740': Part way down the Safety section is the statement: "The Volvo 745 had some severe problems with the C-pillar that could break in collisions even at relatively low speeds. The design was strengthened and the 740 was renamed as the Volvo 940.[14]" Reference 14 does not support this claim. What is the actual evidence? // garlandw 72.39.151.5 (talk) 15:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- I see that User:T-dot removed mention of the C-pillar issue, which is good, but now uses ref 14 to support the claim that the 745 has severe problems with frontal crashes. That is misleading since the reference shows a Vanagon coming in high over the hood into the driver's area. This is not a 745 problem; it is a problem with height mismatch. No car, AFAIK, could protect against such an accident. So hearing no support for the claim, I will remove it from the page. garlandw Garlandw-wiki (talk) 14:25, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

"Also the production of P1800 had to be stopped because it didn't fullfill US saftey standards." doesn't belong in the section about safety problems in the 90's.

But it belong somewhere under the "Safety" heading. Btw, R&T: Feds Look at Volvo Safety Issues. // Liftarn

Im very sceptical about parts of the Safety text. It looks like its written by s Volvo hater. Volvos still are among the safest cars you can buy and their built for real life collisions not to pass tests like most other car brands. Just look at the folksam "how safe is your car report" http://www.folksam.se/engelsk/trafik_eng/sakrabilar2005.pdf --Dahlis 21:10, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The P1800 is a bit special so I don't dubt it had some security issues. Yes, Volvos are still quite safe, but they are indeed slipping. They are not the safest car you could buy (that's the SAAB 9-5). Some models had problems. // Liftarn

They are not slipping, they are slipping in the NCAP tests because the NCAP tests are no good. Volvos are alot more safe then Renaults for example. Renaults are built to beat the tests Volvos are built to be safe. --Dahlis 15:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

It is according to Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Volvo have earlier done well on the same tests. Volvo still does OK[1], but they seem to have problems keeping up with advances in other models. SAABs are also built for real-world safety, but they get gold ratings. // Liftarn

The NCAP tests from the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) would appear to tell part of the story, and they do not show any kind of "slipping". The NCAP tests show a 5-star rating for Volvo S80 for it's entire run between 1999 and 2006 (the 2007 model has yet to be tested) [2]. The same goes for the V70, XC70, and XC90, the latter being a best pick by the IIHS as well. The remaining lineup (S40, V50, S60) has not received any less than 4-stars for any test, a rating that has not dropped. The C70 is routinely not tested. I would double check the saab 9-5 being the safest car, considering it received 4 stars for rear side impacts and rollovers compared to five stars in both categories for the S80 (2006 model year). While I agree these tests do not tell the whole story, they're the most easily accessible form of data available. To further debate safety claims, I would look for actual accident data and survivability based on make and model. That would tell the whole story.Justinslink 06:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, what's with the reference to Mercedes-Benz in the list of safety innovations. Is there any indication on the Mercedes-Benz page regarding MB implementing 3-point safety belts, an innovation patented by Volvo? My vote is to keep that and any other manufacturer references out.Justinslink 07:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything on reference #12 for the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety that said anything about Volvo lagging behind. As a matter of fact, at the very top of the page, the IIHS lists the Volvo C70 as one of the safest cars in its class. I'm not sure how receiving better ratings than any other car in its class counts as "lagging behind."

I agree with Justinslink in his assessment of Volvo's safety. I have seen several times on the internet that the S80 has been referred to as the safest mass-produced car ever made. I'll do my best to find some references reflecting this accordingly.

Reference #13 refers to data that was released before all of the tests had been conducted for that year. First of all, two vehicles that ARE mentioned in that article are mere "wannabe" Volvos; the Ford Five Hunrdred uses the Volvo S80 chassis and only some, not all, of the S80's safety features. Second, as stated in WP's own page on the Volvo XC90, "The XC90 has scored the highest rating of "Good" in the IIHS crash test; notably the rear impact, side impact, and roll over; for numerous years since its debut and most recently on July 3, 2007." When it was first released, it was immediately given the title of SUV of the Year by Motor Trend (see Motor Trend Sport/Utility of the Year). Since its release, no SUV has recorded better marks for safety in many categories, especially the roll over test.

BareAss 21:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Sure, Volvos are still among the safer cars, but there is little difference among the cars i the same class nowdays. As for being the safest most lists the SAAB 9-5 as the safest car in the world. However SAAB are more intersted in promoting it as sporty so you don't hear much about it. // Liftarn

As found on http://www.safercar.gov, the Volvo S80 has not received less than the highest government safety rating of five stars since it was released in either the front impact or side impact crash tests. I have yet to find information on the rear safety test, but seeing as Volvo invented WHIPS -- Whiplash Protection Seating -- I don't see any reason why ratings for rear impact crashes would be any lower.

I'll go through and find more statistics on all Volvo vehicles if it is necessary to achieve my goal of removing the anti-Volvo bias on this WP page concerning Volvo safety. The government's standards don't differentiate between the safest of makes because safety technology has far surpassed government standards, thanks in large to Volvo. However, I simply don't see how some random quote from a local, online news website should be used to justify the claim that Volvos are no longer as safe as other car makes, that Volvo is "lagging behind." This claim cannot be justified rationally when looking at the evidence and can only be made by someone with bias against Volvo; bias is something that has no place on WP.

BareAss 14:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

What are you refering to as "a local, online news website"? The fact that Volvo's saftey have been slipping is sourced by the IIHS website, a TV station, and two articles in national newspapers. You are right that bias has no place on Wikipedia, but you may have to look closer to home first. // Liftarn

As I said in my first edit on this topic, I cannot find anything on that IIHS website reference that says anything about Volvo lagging behind. That reference DOES, however, list a Volvo as one of the safest cars in its class -- this does not seem to support any "lagging behind." The other reference is to a local TV station's online website, which is exactly what I was referring to. Please read my posts before commenting on them.

I cite proof of government saftey tests with the highest ratings, and you cite someone's opinion as given to a local TV station. If someone relies more on the opinion given to the local TV station than on the actual results of crash tests given by the government that determine which vehicles are safe to drive, wouldn't that be considered implementing bias in defiance of NPOV facts?

BareAss 14:29, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I cite the the IIHS website, a TV station (yes, it's local), and two articles in national newspapers. All say Volvo is slipping (or rather that others have catched up). You on the other hand have no source saying they are leading. That they get high scores in safety test is no proof, many cars get that. // Liftarn

The IIHS website does not indicate that Volvo is slipping. It indicates that the Volvo C70 is a top safety pick. BareAss 14:51, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

While searching through the links posted on this talk page, I came about the link to Forbes' website, which was brought up in a discussion about luxury. Interestingly, links to Forbes' website also provide commentary on Volvo safety.

From the website http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/toptens/future-safety-features/lander.html?partner=fadc_ss_safety_technology discussing the top 10 safety features of the future, five of the ten safety features on the list were either invented and first introduced by Volvo or are currently being researched exclusively by Volvo. Each of the ten features has its own website and slideshow entry, and at the bottom of four of these websites for the individual safety features are links to Volvo's website and to no other vehicle maker. The only one of the five that specifically mentions Volvo that does not provide a link to Volvo -- rather, it provides a link to SAAB -- mentions that Volvo was the first make to introduce this safety feature when they released their WHIPS system. Of the ten features, all of them (except maybe the tire pressure gauge -- I'm not sure about this) are offered or come standard on new Volvos.

For Volvo to be represented more prominently in a list of the top safety features of the future than any other car company does not seem to suggest that Volvo is lagging behind ANY other car make. Rather, this indicates that Volvo is still ahead of all other vehicle makers when it comes to safety.

Also provided underneath the link to the specific car make on these pages is a link to Forbes' 10 safest vehicles (http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/toptens/safest/vehicles.html). What is interesting to note here is that the Volvo S80 is listed and the SAAB 9-5 is not, nor is any SAAB vehicle.

You can continue to make claims about Volvo's lack of or "lagging behind" in safety, but I will continue to show that those claims lack foundation and are based upon nothing other than opinion and bias.

BareAss 15:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Gadgets are nice, but that's not what we're discussing here. // Liftarn

"Gadgets"? You are beyond biased at this point. You're saying that a whiplash protection seating system that keeps the people inside the vehicle safer in a crash is just a "nice gadget" but isn't really an integral part of vehicle safety? What about things like a blindspot warning that avoid accidents altogether? If you don't get in an accident at all, aren't you thus safe as a result of the safety features of your car? If these kinds of things aren't "what we're discussing here" then what are we discussing? You've already admitted that Volvo does continue to get the highest safety ratings, so obviously THAT can't be what you use to justify your claim that Volvo is "lagging behind." We're not talking about safety features that are at the forefront of technology; we're not talking about high government crash ratings; what are we discussing?

A Forbes list of the top ten safety features of the future -- of which all ten are featured in new Volvos and five were either invented and introduced by Volvo or are being exclusively researched by Volvo -- indicates that Volvo is leading the field at the present time with respect to safety. This information needs to be added to the article, and the biased, anti-Volvo rhetoric needs to be removed. Leave in those references to that local news story that cites a quotation from some guy that no one's ever heard of and the IIHS link that actually says the C70 is a top safety pick, not that Volvo is "lagging behind" if you wish, but add in this other relevant information. The obvious evidence that points to Volvo's great safety rating -- in the past and at the present time -- may be easily overlooked by the irrational Liftarn, but we should allow the readers of this article to decide if they want to overlook and ignore this information or actually acknowledge it and make decisions for themselves.

BareAss 14:51, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Volvo is slipping in the sense that the other are catching up. Nowdays a Volvo is no more (or less) safe than a comparable car by anoother manufacturer. SAAB have passed Volvo in saftey, but don't push it that much in marketing. // Liftarn

So now that the IIHS has given top safety pick ratings to the C70, XC70, and S80, can we give up on all the "references" to poor Volvo safety? I'm also enjoying the local website "reference" to safety picks for 2006. Very up to date. Also, "slipping in the sense that the other are catching up" does not mean slipping. It means they're catching up. That does not mean, nor imply, Volvo cars have become less safe. Also, you'd think SAAB would market their safety (just as cousin Buick does with the Enclave) if their cars were more safe than Volvo's. Your logic is flawed.Justinslink 07:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

So you want to delete sourced information just because you don't like it? As for why SAAB doesn't market saftey more has been debated in the motor press. According to one article it is because SAAB wants to market the cars as sporty and when people want a sporty car they aren't interested in saftey. // Liftarn

sourced information? are you serious? everything you have cited is garbage. i don't think you should moderate this article. you clearly have a bias.Justinslink (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 07:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

And the results of Folksam's biannual survey is in and no Volvo is listed among the top four safest cars. The safest car is suprisingly (and for the first time for a non-European car) Toyota Avensis (2003 on). Second place is Saab 9-5 (2008 on), third Saab 9-3 (1998-2003) and fourth Mitsubishi Galant (1997-2003).[3][4] All of the is 30% safer then the average car. Volvo doesn't do badly, the Volvo S60/V70/S80 (1999-2006) is still 25% safer than the average car.[5][6] // Liftarn

I've reordered the section, and changed the text for 'safety standards slipping'. Of the four refs, only the second is relevant. The first link doesn't mention the standards slipping, so would come under WP:OR. The second is relevant, althought the quote was quite different so I've changed it. The last two links are in swedish and difficult to translate. The first seems to me to be a reqording of the Russ Rader link. The last link seems to be about how Saab is as safe as Volvo, which doesn't mean Volvo is slipping. peterl (talk) 02:31, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Marque status (luxury)

The automotive press considers Volvo to be a luxury marque. A quick search for "Volvo luxury" will confirm this, or search for "Volvo" at any automotive news site (for example, Road & Track). User:WWC

I did a search for "Volvo luxury" at http://www.roadandtrack.com/ and it didn't produce a single result. I checked some of the results for "volvo", but none of them called Volvo "a luxury marque". I also looked at http://www.volvocars.us/ and it's only S80 and XC70 that are called "luxury". // LiftarnFor

Check edmunds.com or Ford's Annual Report. Want to apologize for being obnoxious with my remarks that you do not know anything about Automobiles. I go a little overboard sometimes. // -CarAnalyst

Nah, I don't think you were being obnoxious. I suggest signing your comments with ~~~~ Borisblue 02:47, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Please be more specific. For instance http://www.edmunds.com is a rather large site. Considering Volvo themselves only call S80 and XC70 "luxury", but not the other cars in the line up I don't think you can say the the brand itself is a luxury brand any more than for instance Audi or Volkswagen. // Liftarn

Volvo has different status in different markets. In Sweden, Volvo is regarded as a car for the "common people", and their main competitors are Saab, Ford, Opel, VW, Audi and Toyota. In the U.S., I guess Volvo has a more luxury status, competing with BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Lincoln and Cadillac. In the U.K., the small Volvo 340 (developed by DAF in the Netherlands) was for a long time the most sold Volvo model, which obviously made the Volvo status much lower there, than it is in other markets. --Boivie 12:08, 6 October 2005 (UTC)--Boivie 11:57, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Good point. The brand image is ofcourse defferent in different markets. Ford may also want to position the brand in a certain segment. The interesting thing is that according to http://www.volvocars.us/ that is Volvo's US site it only labels S80 and XC70 as "luxury". With only two cars in the line up called luxury I don't think it can be applied to the entire brand. // Liftarn

As with BMW, Volvo started out as the car for the common folk but with time evolved into a luxury marque. There current line up all competes with other luxury marques.

XC90:Audi Q7, BMW X5, MB M-Class, Lexus RX, Infiniti FX, Cadillac SRX, Saab 9-7, Acura MDX

S80: Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, MB E-Class, Lexus GS, Infiniti M, Cadillac STS, Saab 9-5, Acura RL

S60: Audi A4, BMW 3-Series, MB C-Class, Lexus IS & ES, Infiniti G, Cadillac CTS, Saab 9-3, Acura TL

S40: Acura TSX, the S40 is considered an entry-level luxury sedan so it can compete with non-luxury marques but when one compares size and price it clearly provides that this car leans towards luxury. Also sales records show that people interested in this car also looked at other luxury marques.

Those who have access to MAG-Rack on Demand (Cable Service) also can see history of BMW and Volvo; it mentions their economical start to their rise to the luxury catergory.

Luxury Cars at edmunds.com: Scroll to to bottom an note entire Volvo line-up is listed. As for SUVs you will notice non-luxury marques listed because in the SUV catergory they are considered to beluxury yet overall the marque or its entire lineup is not considered luxury. [7] // -CarAnalyst

Then it should say something like "according to edmunds.com[8] Volvo's current line-up consists of luxury cars". By the way I noticed that Audi is also called "luxury", this is equally absurd. edmunds.com must have rather low requirements of luxury. I also noticed that actual luxury cars (Rolls-Royce, Bentley Bristol...) are notably absent from the list. // Liftarn

Liftarn, it is not absurd that Audi is considered luxury especially since they produce cars that are over $100,000. True luxury marques are Acura (US), Audi, BMW, Cadillac (US), Infiniti (US), Jaguar, Lexus (US & Pacific Rim), Lincoln (US), Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Saab, and Volvo. As for Aston Martin, Bentley, Bugatti, Isotta Fraschini (defunct marque), Maybach, Rolls Royce are considered ultra-luxury marques. Daimler (UK) and Maserati are on the border line between luxury and ultra-luxury. Aston Martin, Porsche, Ferrari, and Lambo also fit into exotic catergory. Not to be rude, but really where do you get your car information or should I say is this your own opinion that Audi is not luxury because to me that sounds absurd? And I truly mean not to be rude or obnoxious but I would think that the average person would know Audi is a luxury marque. Any finance site including Bloomberg, Forbes, or even Yahoo finance can vouch this one. // CarAnalyst

A luxury car is a car that provides the ultimate in style and comfort. They are often (at least plartly) hand made and often they are also made according to customer specifications. What you call "luxury" I would call "premium". None of the marques you mentioned (Acura (Honda), Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti (Nissan), Jaguar, Lexus (Toyota), Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Saab, and Volvo) are marques I would call luxury, they are (with the exception of Porsche that's a sports car) premium marques. I don't think the average would find Audi, Volvo, Saab et.c. more a luxury marque than say Wolkswagen, Mitsubishi or Skoda. To take a detail, all of them have (unless you order one with special trim) plastic steering wheels. Unthinkable in a real luxury car. // Liftarn

I come from a European family that is both aristocratic and affluent and my entire life I have been driven in a chauffeured car. Most commonly these cars were Rolls-Royces. Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and BMW were the choice of our everyday cars because they were and are renowned for being a luxury automobile and above the average automobile. If you are to read any automobile magazine you will see that Audi is in the same class as BMW and Mercedes-Benz. A Mitsubishi is way below an Audi, no questions about it. Again not intending to be rude but I advise that you find a different subjects rather than automobiles to revise because your knowledge is very limited. And I apologize if that causes any offense to you because I truly to not intend it too. // CarAnalyst

Your personal experiences are original research and thus not useable. My dad have a Volvo S60 and while it's a nice car and probably above average it's still not a luxury car. It's quite simmilar to a Mutubishi Galant, VW Passat or Ford Mondeo. And just for fun I counted the cars on the parking lot. Seven Volvos, three Audis, two SAABs and there was also a BMW parked down the road. Gee, I must live in a really rich area because there are so many luxury cars parked here. ;-) I do find you rude and unless you manage to find some actual sources I will start ignoring you. I do read an occational automobile magazine and I'm a member of four different automobile clubs. I have never, as far as I can recall, seen Volvo being called a luxury marque. I don't think even the Volvo 164 or 264 was called luxury. I may read the wrong magazines. // Liftarn 07:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Liftarn, you continue to reject the notion that Volvo and Audi are luxury marques despite that edmunds.com states so. CarAndDriver, Road and Track, MotorTrends all refer to Volvo being a luxury marque. In December of 2002, the a ship, the Nicola en route to Germany collided with the Tricolor. The Tricolor was enroute to the United State loaded with Volvos, BMWS, and Saab. BBC had headlines saying Cargo Ship carrying luxury automobiles sinks. In fact a quote from the a different BBC article refers to the cars in this blurb "The Nicola began its journey to Germany after tugs pulled her clear of the Tricolor, which sank at the weekend with £30m of luxury cars on board. " Continuing with this reference to luxury they state "In addition to the £30m value of the BMWs, Volvos and Saabs on board, the Tricolor itself is worth about £25m. " Will you assume both BBC, Edmunds, and the Automobile Media are all wrong, Because I think not. Ford Motor Company defines Premier Auto Group, their subsidary which holds the Volvo marque as their luxury division. Mercedes-Benz who is reknowned for luxury compares their automobiles to Volvo among other luxury marques which you refuse to call luxury marques but call premium marques. Additionally Bloomingdale's a world reknowned luxury retailer based in the US, associates their name with only prestige. They advertised Audi and now Volvo in their catalogs and magazines. I can continue to to provide sources if need be but I feel like I have done my share. Do not get me wrong, Volvo is a luxury brand but some products are not always up to par with the sector. Yet by no means is a Volvo nor Audi in the same league as Mitsubishi. Out of curiosity what Volvo, BMW, and Audi models are in your neigborhood? //CarAnalyst

Is edmunds.com a reliable source? And as I've said above "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". So far edmunds.com is all you have come up with. I managed to find some info at BBC's site [9] and the cars are defined as "high-end BMWs and Saabs" so it's not just base models. Again, I'm not denying that some models may be defined as "luxury", but not the entire brand. Some Yugos were also high-end and there are cars like Nissan Fuga and Mazda Millenia, but that don't make Yugo, Nissan and Mazda luxury brands. The Volvos are almost the full spectrum. From the 240s (I have even seen a 140 at another parking lot) up to late S60s. The Audis are at least one Audi 100, the other I haven't check and can't identify right of. The BMWs are usually the 3-series and some in the 5-series. Ford says nothing about luxury[10]. // Liftarn

Volvo Cars of North America Inc. Company Profile

"Volvo Cars of North America is the sales, distribution, and marketing arm of Ford Motor's Volvo brand in the US and Canada. Volvo's range of models include the S-Range, the V-Range, the C-Range, and XC-Range. The S40 is Volvo's latest introduction, an entry level sports sedan priced under $25,000. The company also offers financing through Volvo Finance. Ford Motor purchased the Volvo automotive brand from Swedish truckmaker AB Volvo in 1999. Along with Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Land Rover, Volvo is part of Ford's Premier Automotive Group family of luxury brands." Quoted from finance.yahoo.com //CarAnalyst

Do you have a link? // Liftarn

Sorry, I forgot to post it last time. The link is [11] //CarAnalyst

"Volvo: On message

Thomas Andersson, executive vice president of marketing at Volvo Cars of North America Inc., says Volvo considers itself "the most effective spender, both in absolute dollars and per car, in the luxury segment."

Because Volvo's national marketing budget is small, Andersson says, it must concentrate on key products - such as its XC90 sport wagon - to establish a brand message. That message spills over to lesser-known vehicles when shoppers enter the showroom, he says.

Volvo's message of safety, family, environmental concern and Swedish cool is part of every element of its external image, including dealer ads. Sanfilippo says Volvo's marketing communications are among the best in the industry.

"Volvo's communications are aligned from the top down," he says. "The idea of what Volvo is about flows through all the way to the retail ads."" Taken from[12]

Additionally I spoke with representatives of Volvo cars and they refuted the fact of being competitors with Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Toyota, Vauxhall and VW in America and in all global markets. My corrections on the main page will reflect this. //CarAnalyst

Market fluff and unsubstantiated claims are no good. An anonymous person asking another anonymous person. That's not very verifiable. And car salesmen are not exactly known for their honesty. // Liftarn

This luxury or not discussion is not getting anywere. Cant you all just accept that cars that are considered luxury in one place is not in another. In some places even a beat up old vw bug is a luxury. Im swedish and volvos are pretty much the standard car here. To me they are not luxury, neither are BMW, AUDI, SAAB, Lexus. --Dahlis 18:16, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Dahlis, I totally agree with you. Yesterday I bought an '84 Volvo 244. Not really a luxury car, but still more luxury than VW, Toyota and Mitsubishi of that age. --Boivie 10:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'd say it's comparable with VW Passat and Audi 80 and probably less luxurious than a SAAB 900 but I may be biased in that respect. By the way, I recently saw a tv program where the new Passat was called a "volvo killer". // Liftarn

"Volvo remains one of the most profitable units of the Ford group's luxury car division, which also includes Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin.

Nobody dubts and tha article cleary says that Volvo is placed in Ford's "luxury" group and that in the US it's marketed as a luxury car. // Liftarn

The weak performance of Ford's luxury brands, including Land Rover and Jaguar, has hurt the number two U.S. auto maker, which is struggling to reverse a sales decline that has prompted a sweeping restructuring." Cited from Yahoo Asia News [13] If you still dispute that Volvo is a luxury car manufacturer, feel free to contact their corporate offices. They will and can set the record straight for you. As Liftarn is constantly reverting the article to provide the statement "In the European market Volvo competes with brands such as Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Toyota, Vauxhall and Volkswagen;" I would like some factual information proving this. Volvo Cars nor does Ford validate this claim. The same holds true with all automotive sources both print and online. Where are you getting it from? This is purely point of view and is not accurate.

Stop reverting the article to your point of view. It is counter-productive to provide false information. As I stated before there is no where that validates your claims that Volvo competes with brands such as Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Toyota, etc.

Please stop reverting to put in your view. For instance VW Passat is often compared with Volvos.[14][15][16] or sometimes Nissan Maxima [17] or Honda Accord [18]. // Liftarn

First of all they are comparing the Volvo S40 (the entry-level) Volvo to Honda's flagship; the same applies with Nissan. You see these comparisons alot with brands such as Toyota, Nissan, and Honda compare their flagships with Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, and BMW's entry models. As far as the Volkwagen, they did a similar thing. They are comparing their top of the line, V8 to Volvo's inline 5 and inline 4. What a great comparision?...I think not. You neglect to phone Volvo's corporate office, and why you fail to do this I do not know? Even phone BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Ask to speak to someone in their finance office as well as their marketing office. They will completely state their competitors in the US and globally. You answer questions incompletely just to fit your argument; what about the statements from the Geneva Auto Show. Your arguement is inconclusive and you are clearly stating your point of view. I am kindly asking you to please stop; I do not understand why you are making this so difficult.

We have no reliable source that says that globally Volvo (each and every one of them, including the 343) is considered luxury cars. // Liftarn (talk) 23:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

A compromise

I'm just some random person who added a pic to this article and it's been on my watchlist. I've watched this dispute with some dismay as it seems rather small beer. Is there no compromise possible? Why not just say that it's considered X in some markets and by some critics, Y in others, and Z in the rest, source the references that claim each thing and leave it to the reader to draw their conclusions as they would. Wouldn't that work? If not, why not? No offense, but revert wars are, in general, lame. ++Lar: t/c 14:58, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The version I'm reverting to is a compromise verswion where it says Volvos are marketed as luxury cars in the US and as everyday cars in other markets. Obviously this compromise doesn't work because of this anonymous person keeps inserting the extraordinary claim that Volvo is a luxury brand. It may, just like Gevalia, be seen as luxury in some markets while not seen as luxury in others. // Liftarn

I completely agree and I am tired of this game Liftarn is playing. I intended my editing only to rectify incorrect information and provide that which is validated by the manufacturer and its competitors. Volvo Car Corporation holds the stance that they are a luxury marque in all markets, not just the United States. At this point I am going to just give up because it appears that it is getting reverted out of stubbornness to a claim which is not correct. //CarAnalyst

I think you miss the point. (and please sign with ~~~~... it makes things SO MUCH EASIER!!! I note you've been asked that before, right?). The point is not about you are right and he is not, he is stubborn and you are not, etc... or even just what the manufacturer says the product is. WP:NPOV means that all points of view (that can be sourced) should be accomodated. He has provided sourcing, so have you. The article should explain BOTH points of view, pointing to the sources to each. That way the reader can make up their own mind. Can I ask you to try to put together some text, here, that does that? Then maybe everyone can move on. Thanks! Happy editing! ++Lar: t/c 21:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I have checked Volvo sites. For instance http://www.volvocars.se/ says nothing about the cars being luxury cars (but it does mentions the V70's "luxurious comfort" (but then even Peugeot Partner is called "even more luxurious" in their ads)). At http://www.volvocars.us/ the S80 is called a "luxury sedan" and also the XC80 is called luxury. The rest of the model line up is not called "luxury" or "luxurious". At http://www.volvocars.us/_Tier2/WhyVolvo/ no mention of luxury is made. The state that their core values are "safety, environment and quality" (not luxury). They have a vision to become "the world's most desired and successful premium car brand"[19]. The problem is that nowhere does they say thet every Volvo is a luxury car. They have some cars in their line-up that are at least luxurious, but also basic, utility models like the V40. // Liftarn

File:Wikivolvo.gif

Here is a portion of Ford's Annual Report Stating Volvo's competitors. This is showing them on a global scale and not just the United States. Note that 60% of Sales belong to Europe therefore competition favors European Sales. I do not see Peugeot on there anywhere. Liftarn, you neglect to actually contact Volvo's executive offices, yet I hope my posting above and edits to the page will suffice. This is my compromise, let me know if it is okay with you?--CarAnalyst 14:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Contacting them would be original research. http://www.ford.com/en/company/about/brands/volvo.htm does list BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi and Lexus as major competitors. All those and more are already listed. I googled a bit and found some other stuff (emphasis added) "Major competitors for the S60 AWD include the BMW 325Xi/330Xi, Audi A4 1.8T/3.0, Jaguar X-Type 2.5/3.0, VW Passat 4Motion and Subaru Outback H6 3.0 AWD."[20]. // Liftarn

Just wondering if the changes made to the article page are okay with you?--CarAnalyst 15:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

"In economics, a luxury good is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises, contrast with inferior good and normal good. Luxury goods are said to have high income elasticity of demand: as people become more wealthy, they will buy more and more of the luxury good." That is a part from the article of Wikipedia referring to luxury goods.As an economist I confirm this explanation.Volvo,according to this definition,is considered a luxury brand as all its lineup,except for its premium sedan S40,is luxurious...

It is true that in Sweden Volvos are cars for common people but the Volvo prices are significantly lower there than other European countries...

In Peru Volvo is positioned as luxury brand in cars/SUV's - in the same class of BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi. It has better image than Ford, Toyota, VW, Mazda, Peugeot, Nissan, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Renault, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.108.104.41 (talk) 19:27, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

If you have a source for it you can add it to the article that Volvos are marketed as luxury cars in Peru. // Liftarn (talk) 22:14, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Here goes one source (it took few seconds to find on Google):

http://www.patiotuerca.com.pe/peru/motores.nsf/paginaprinc/8CB7901604C21E64052571540056AC41

For the XC90 it says "El SUV de lujo...", which means: The luxurious SUV. However the local market is by no means representative. As neither are representative the exotic cars or halo cars that some consider to be the definition of luxury.

That's just for the XC90, not the brand as such. // Liftarn (talk)

An S40 may not be so expensive as the XC90, but it commands a premium over a similar vehicle from non luxury manufacturer.

The quality could be about the same compared to any well known brand, however luxury brands typically have better designs, more advanced technologies, use better grade materials and have more options, hence can command a premium.

One could eventually discuss about the Volvo positioning in trucks, buses and machinery.

Volvo was part of Ford's PAG - "Premier" Automotive Group, IMO it would unnecessary to prove how are those cars marketed by Ford. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.121.95.113 (talk) 05:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

this is silly, why an earth you want use word luxury in article? it doesnt give anything, or are you just trying to rise the image

or volvo brand? IMO its better without any overwords... good products dont needs thatkind of words.......It gives impression that Volvo needs more marketing to give it better status --— Typ932^{T | C} 20:23, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Soccer mom status since 2003

See Volvo-Driving Soccer Mom and Friends episodes in Season 9. Many other similar references in pop culture.

My mom wasn't a soccer mom, but a '66 4-door wagon with 4 on the floor was her car until late 70s. Pale green color, like Bill Paxton's car in "A Simple Plan." Got sucked off the road into a high creek during rainstrom: all flooded. Dad drained & dried all cavities & had it running again in 3 mos.—138.162.128.52 19:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Center Brakelights

In the mid-eighties, Volvo introduced the first central high-mounted stoplight (a brake light not shared with the rear taillights), which became federally mandated in the 1986 model year.

Can anyone verify the 1986 date? I thought the federal law came more recently. Plus, it seems unlikely to have been mandated so soon after introduction by a single manufacturer. Alcuin 02:58, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind this law is American, and cars from elsewhere in the world may not have complied with U.S. regulations. Central high-mounted stop lamps were introduced on the 200-series cars in 1986. I'm not positive that was also the case for the 700-series cars, which was the only other type of car Volvo sold in the United States at the time. According to this page, they "have been standard equipment on all new passenger cars sold in the United States since model year 1986" and trucks since 1994 (explaining why my 1989 car has one but my dad's 1990 Nissan pickup truck doesn't), so I would guess that all Volvos gained the CHMSL in 1986. --69.242.193.68 01:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC) KeplerNiko

The 1986 date is listed in Automotive lighting, but there is no mention of Volvo. Peaceduck 20:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Logo

The Volvo logo is the male sign. Why is this? Anyone know? I want to, and I'd like the article to say! 129.78.208.4 09:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Its also the symbol of iron. And iron = strenght. Volvo = rolling strenght/power. --Dahlis 19:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Already in 1927, when Volvo was founded, a logotype with an equally strong symbolic connection as the name Volvo ("we roll" in Latin) itself was selected: The ancient chemical symbol for iron, a circle with an arrow. This symbol has been decorating the products ever since, although the design of it has evolved over the years. The iron mark is one of the western culture's oldest ideogram, and was initially the symbol for the planet Mars in the Roman Empire. As it consequently became the symbol for the war god Mars (as well as the masculine gender), a close connection between the symbol for Mars and the metal that was used for manufacturing most weapons, i.e. iron, was obvious. Hence, the sign has been symbolising the iron handling - not least in Sweden - for many centuries. The iron mark on the Volvo vehicles was selectad as it is symbolising the association to the Swedish iron industry with its old traditions: Steel and strength, and thereby also the typical Volvo features safety, quality and durability. Anna-karenina 12:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Volvo is actually "I roll" in latin. Volvimus would be the latin for "We roll".Justinslink 06:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no need for a caption stating that the image of the logo is a logo. This is according to the WIKI caption policy. Showing the logo of the brand or the company is not an attempt at advertising. The notion of putting a caption stating that the logo is a logo will somehow reduce the effect of "advertising" is false. Showing the logo as part of a Wikipedia article is not advertising according to the definition of advertising -- "Advertising is paid and/or sometimes free communication through a medium in which the sponsor is identified and the message is controlled..." Therefore, including an image of the logo in a Wikipedia article about the item or organization identified with that particular logo does NOT make it advertising. Wikipedia guidelines clearly state that no caption needed for company or product logos, where the logo is current, and the article is about the company or product. -- Thank you -- CZmarlin 13:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

RWD Volvo Images

I would like to propose that a photo of a car from the 200, 700, or 900-series Volvos be included on the page. An image of a 240 would be ideal, since it's the car that put Volvo where it is today (more than 2 million sold over its 19-year-run), but at least one of the cars from this classic RWD trifecta should be featured. There's a late-model 850, which is hardly a different car from a 1998 V70. Also, a DAF/Volvo 66 is included (not saying it's a bad shot, though), which is rarely seen outside of European markets (and then it's still a rare sight). These cars are certainly Volvos, but they're not representative of a true Brick.

I agree and i added a picture of a 245. --Dahlis 14:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Volvo Transmissions

If you would please update this article with this information:

Automatics:
AW50-42 (4-speed automatic, FWD/AWD)
AW55-50/51 (5-speed automatic, FWD/AWD)
GM4T65EV/GT(4-Speed GM automatic, FWD/AWD)
TF80-SC (6-speed automatic, FWD/AWD)

You could have done it yourself, bit I've added it. // Liftarn

It's not what I do.

Edit to model numbering section

I deleted this sentence:

This type of naming system is prodominantly used by luxury marques only like.

as I could see no useful meaning in it. Perhaps if it has some purpose in the section it can be suitably modified and restored. --King Hildebrand 19:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

VOLVO DEALERSHIP SATISFACTION

Volvo according to Forbes magazine is in the 6th place among the luxury car makers when it comes to dealership experience.This list also supports the case that Volvo is a luxury brand.The first car maker in this list is Jaguar —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.74.50.132 (talk) 00:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

THE REFERENCE IS THE FOLLOWING: [21] I am Tolis.I do not know how to sign....And the reference was made for the luxury brands and you changed it....To see the list of best dealership experience among luxury brands just click "Slideshow: Top 10 luxury car companies with the best dealerships"

should volvo move up to a luxury brand?

i see your ideas, but i think volvo could do well with a C90 ultralux sedan that would fight against the LS460 in terms of safety. this would be powered by a ford V8 like the one in the interceptor concept and with more standard safety features than the LS. 64.91.201.195 20:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:VOR4264 450px.jpg

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Luxury?

Volvo sure don't only make luxury cars, among the current cars, how is Volvo V50, Volvo S40, Volvo C30 or Volvo S60 luxury cars? Some of their cars, like Volvo S80, might qualify as luxury cars, but not the entire brand. Also, at least in Sweden, the older Volvos like Volvo 240 and Volvo 740 are considered every person's cars. /Grillo (talk) 22:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Kinda unnecessary word here on auto articles.. --— Typ932^{T | C} 22:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

In Sweden Volvo cars are significantly less expensive than the rest of the world.Volvo's best selling cars XC90 and V70 are luxury cars,aren't they?You should have seen the discussions above before sending a new post.Finally all Volvo competitors ::refered to as such in the article,bear the name luxury in their own articles,so Volvo PRODUCES MAINLY LUXURY VEHICLES with prices of more than 25000Euro($40000)and a lot more than $30000 in the US market!!!Finally the term luxuy actually exists in the market although some of you decided to ignore it to avoid the responsibility of an article.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.202.58.111 (talk) 16:14, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Read the last paragraph of this link from Wall Street Journal...

"Volvo, the Swedish luxury brand owned by Ford Motor Co., plans to expand its existing active technology offerings with a system called "City Safety," which will offer accident avoidance at low speeds. For example, a Volvo that is turning left at under 9 miles per hour might stop itself if the vehicle in front suddenly stops." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.129.182.115 (talk) 11:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the Wall Street Journal can use that term -- they aren't writing reference articles. The term "luxury vehicle" is not helpful in a reference article: it is a "marketing" term and though widely used — the term is broad, highly variable, ambiguous and abstruse. It lacks measurability and verifiability. 842U (talk) 14:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Volvo is listed on [[Category:Luxury_motor_vehicle_manufacturers]], so the term 'luxury' is not out of place here. The wiki pages of many of its competitors (BMW,Audi, etc) also use the term. The 240 is certainly not viewed as luxury now, but it is an obsolete model. peterl (talk) 21:41, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

So what is the defined threshold above which an automobile becomes a luxury vehicle? What is the industry standard? Where do we go to find the standard? How do we verify the standard? Who wrote it?

And if there is no industry standard, what factual, informational purpose does it serve to use an un-defined term — one that happens to have an over-riding agrandizing purpose — in the introduction of a reference article? Is the purpose of the article to present the facts or to agrandize? These are important questions to ask here... not what's happening in the Audi or BMW article. 842U (talk) 19:21, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Introduction is poorly structured

The introduction hops around like a rabbit on a hot tin roof -- from the profound and appropriate to the highly anecdotal "owners love their mileages" comments, the tractor comments, and a brief but hardly inclusive poorly supported overview of parts of Volvo's most recent sales.

The history material needs to be relegated to the history section, the anecdotes need to find their own home within the article, and the introduction needs to give the reader a quick synopsis of the basics of Volvo.

In the meantime, the intro is no intro. Let's get on it. 842U (talk) 16:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Volvo safety innovations- a result of an accident to the chief executive's wife?

Reading [22]. I found this quote: in 1959, after the wife of Volvo's chief executive was involved in an accident, Volvo introduced the three-point seat belt with a ratcheting mechanism -- the same system used worldwide today. I came here looking to check it, but see no mention of this. I don't have time to do more myself, but perhaps someone else wants to follow this up. Greenman (talk) 10:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Volvo sold to Geely?

I heard Volvo was sold to Geely. Is that true? 189.100.239.121 (talk) 23:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

From what I understand, the process is not yet complete. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 06:07, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

SamBlob is true a deal will probably be done with Geely in 2010. A good day for Volvo, a good day for Sweden and my Volvo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.60.24 (talk) 18:05, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

engines

Currently, no available Volvo's V10 engines or Volvo's V12 engines. Nagara373 (talk) 02:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

source citations needed

This article has alot of content thats been tagged citation needed for like the last 3 years. If anyone is bored and wants to pull up some citations for those and maybe cite some of the other stuff that should be labeled citation needed.. that would be an awesome idea. -Tracer9999 (talk) 20:48, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I have added several dozen more citation needed tags. My expertise in all things makes me uniquely qualified to add these tags.

For sooth and quid pro quo, PompusAss (talk) 22:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC) in honorarium.

Star?

It looks so good, not a Star Article. --Slugsofbullets (talk) 00:05, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Limo version of 164?

Since no one ever posts in the talk section for the 140, I'm asking here. Does anyone know anything about the limo version of the 164? The car is stretched at the C-pillar, the same way the 264 TE was. Here's a photo of one, the only one I've ever seen: http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/ragemanchoo/automotive/Volvo164ELimousine.jpg Thanks --76.105.145.143 (talk) 23:54, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

New president and CEO

Just wanted to point out that Håkan Samuelsson was appointed Pres and CEO of Volvo Cars this week.

Source.... https://www.media.volvocars.com/ca/enhanced/en-ca/Media/Preview.aspx?mediaid=46412 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.7.223.51 (talk) 23:00, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

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Electric/Hybrid Only 2019 Edit Removed

In July 2017, Volvo announced all new models launched from 2019 will be fully electric or hybrids, spelling the eventual end to nearly a century of Volvo vehicles powered solely by the internal combustion engine.^[1]

Can someone explain to me why even if you site a source and provide a relevant update, someone comes around behind and removes it without explanation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by M7635 (talk • contribs) 09:56, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

It wasn't "removed", it was modified and expanded by Heat fan1. Be aware that your edits here can be altered if the changes bring an improvement or follow an established consensus among editors. I personally don't agree with Heat fan1 wording (how Volvo Cars can be described as a "major manufacturer"?), but I don't see serious problems either. If you disagree with the new content, you can be bold and alter his/her edits or leave a message to him/her in his/her talk page. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 14:32, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

No harm. I added the information to the introduction, then saw that you had done it in the body. Since the edit I made in the intro had more information than yours in the body, I simply switched them.

By referring to them as a "major manufacturer," I meant to distinguish them from the smaller startup manufacturers focusing on electrification. That said, I thin it could be stated better. heat_fan1 (talk) 19:41, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh ok. The intro is probably an appropriate place for it for now at least until there is more information available M7635 (talk) 22:31, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Looks like a press release dreamed up in the basement of the marketing department. If the intention was to grab favourable headlines then it worked. That's good. It even got a mention in wikipedia. That's better. For the Volvo marketing department.

If someone who works at a strategic level within the company (and/or in product development) would like to tell us what they have done, that's better. Of course there's no way of knowing whether other major automakers will continue to launch NEW MODELS without the hybrid option after 2019 ,but Volvo got the headlines. One way or another, since we can't all afford to buy new cars every year, and without government (aka tax-payer / national debt busting) subsidies, most buyers are still unable or unwilling to stump up for what the automakers say it costs them to produce the dual fuel cars, the hybrid take-over, if it happens, seems vanishingly unlikely to be a sudden thing. And no doubt there are people reading this who think it will not happen at all. I wonder if my bicycle still works .... Sadly, probably not with me on it.

Wikipedia is meant to be informative about what is. Trespassing into the future is a risky business. The Volvo press release is of encyclopedic interest firstly and secondly because of what it tells us about Volvo to day. It might - say thirdly - provide evidence about where Volvo will be in two years time provided a whole lot if influential company executives and investors (1) mean what they say, (2) won't change their mind and (3) have a realistic way to get from where they are to where they want to be. That's interesting, and merits a couple of lines in the context of the wider entry. But beyond that it really belongs more on Planet Mystic Meg than in something encyclopedic.

according to me..... Success Charles01 (talk) 07:54, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

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^ CNBC (2017-07-05). "Geely's Volvo to go all electric with new models from 2019". Retrieved 2017-07-05.

[1] CNBC (2017-07-05). "Geely's Volvo to go all electric with new models from 2019". Retrieved 2017-07-05.

[1]