Talk:Volvo Dealer Racing

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Race team history[edit]

You've misinterpreted the history quite wrong here. Mark Petch's team was completely seperate to John Sheppard's. Sheppard's team had been around for while, dating back to his brief involvement with the Holden Dealer Team and ran as a rally team as well as circuit racing. Petch's team continued after selling the Volvo equipment to Sheppard, Petch acquired a Ford Sierra for Bathurst 1986 for Francevic to race. Petch had been racing his team in New Zealand long before his 1985 ATCC foray and continued through in several forms to this day, today mainly in an organisational role with New Zealand's V8SuperTourer series. --Falcadore (talk) 02:05, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:V the threshold for inclusion is verifiability, not truth. Cite [1] states: "The deal between Petch, Volvo Cars Australia and the Volvo dealer network had seen Petch sell the team". Thus it is correct that the Volvo Dealer Team was a continuation of the team formed by Mark Petch team under different ownership. V7867 (talk) 02:17, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ummm.... Mark Petch Motorsport raced in 1986, with a Sierra. When the say sell the team, it refers to the cars and equipment, the contents of the team, not the name of the team. Mark Petch could hardly sell Mark Petch Motorsport itself because... it was him. MPM was racing again just a few months later at Bathurst.

It's like when the BMW M3s were transferred to Peter Brock. Frank Gardner sold him the team, but he didn't sell him his business identity. He would need that when establishing the Freeport organisation with Longhurst the following year. --Falcadore (talk) 04:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Another example, in Formula One Tyrrell Racing was sold to the British American Racing organisation - but in no way are they the same team. --Falcadore (talk) 04:01, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a Background, sub-heading for the pre-VDT era information. I think it is important to include as it gives an overview of how the team came to be. Other alternative would be to have a separate Mark Petch Motosrport article, but I don't have enough information to justify. V7867 (talk) 04:41, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just stop it OK? All you need to say is the equipment and cars were purchased from Mark Petch's race team. --Falcadore (talk) 15:21, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As previously stated the point of the Background section is to provide information on how the team came to be and Volvo entered the ATCC. If there was a Mark Petch Motorsport article it could be linked, per Triple Eight Race Engineering (Australia) purchasing Briggs Motor Sport or Ford Performance Racing acquiring Glenn Seton Racing. But as I do not have enough information to justify an article, I can't write one. Your earlier concerns about VDT being formed in 1985 have been addressed, it is now merely background information, And at 3 lines is fairly brief. V7867 (talk) 18:52, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Volvo - as a factory team - enterred the ATCC in 1986. Petch's 1985 team was a privateer team. It is misrepresentation to suggest the 1985 teams is connected beyond sale of equipment. --Falcadore (talk) 21:45, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Other alternative would be to have a separate Mark Petch Motosrport article, but I don't have enough information to justify. Wikipedia does not work in this manner. Each article must stand on its own merits, not the merits of related topics. Just because they were the only teams in Australia to race the Volvo turbo and had some team personnel and equipment who moved from one team to the other, does not make them the same team. You additionally should not use an article on George Shepheards 1986 team as a placeholder/substitute for Mark Petch's 1985 team. When you say "background" you are really just looking for a way for the 1985 racing team to have a linked article by having a "by-the-way" section labeled as background in the article of another racing team.

The correct background of the Volvo Dealer Team, if you wanted to write one, would be the details of George Shepheard's rally team, including his Holden Dealer Team efforts - including the HDT of the 1979 Round Australia rally. THAT is VDT's background. --Falcadore (talk) 04:14, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling you are getting John Sheppard and George Shepheard confused, quite easily done. The 1986 programme was managed by JS.[2][3]

I believe GS had no involvement with Volvo until 1994.[4] The addition of the 1985 info is not a case of trying to shoehorn vaguely related info as asserted, merely to provide background. V7867 (talk) 07:32, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Background is: they bought the equipment from Mark Petch. One sentence is all it takes. Much in the same way Daily Planet bought their equipment from Garry Rogers Motorsport. DPR didn't require a paragraph. --Falcadore (talk) 08:27, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Drivers[edit]

You appear to have missed John English, Terry Shiel, Win Percy and Ed Ordynski. --Falcadore (talk) 04:31, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I'm not perfect. No need to tell me, just fix it. V7867 (talk) 04:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]