Talk:Vortimer

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Place of death?[edit]

I was reading Thomas Allen's The History of the County of Lincolnshire (1834) and it states on page 101 that Vortimer died and was buried in Lincoln. Has anyone else seen this in other sources? Kelly ^hi! 11:29, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kelly (if you're still there). Geoffrey of Monmouth puts his burial place at Trinovantum, Wace and Layamon place it in London, the latter specifically at Belyn's Gate (Billingsgate). Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 23:01, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fuhghettaboutit, I should like to ask you a question: you converted all the links to the Historia Brittonum to link to a specific wikisource version. I want to add something from another version (because it will become relevant later in the article): do I just say "another version adds......." and then create a new reference/note for the other version? Thanks Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 23:01, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Maryanne Cunningham. If it is to the same source, just use the first part of the named citation I provided for each, with a closing slash. For example, the last citation (for chapter 44) is in this form:

<ref name="Britons44">{{cite wikisource |last=Nennius |first=(Traditional attribution) |authorlink=Nennius |editor-first=W. |editor-last=Gunn |editor2-first=J. A. (translators) |editor2-last=Giles |title=History of the Britons: Chapter 44 |wslink=History of the Britons#1:44 |year=1848 |origyear=Composed after A.D. 830}}</ref>

The next time you want to use that same citation again, just use: <ref name="Britons44" />

On the other hand, if you want to cite a different chapter of the same work, just follow the format I used, but change the chapter details (in the three relevant places above). Does that answer your question?

(As usual, specifics are better 99.99% of the time; if you told me exactly what you mean by a "later version", then I could likely tell you exactly what to do. Right now I covered two possibilities, but I'm not even sure if you mean a different version of History of the Britons, by a different translator, hosted at an entirely different website than Wikisource:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Fuhghettaboutit. What I actually meant was that I want to quote from a different edition, which is not the wikisource one, but an actual book, which contains content from different manuscripts. The bit I want to add is not in the wikisource text, so I can't create a link to it because the content isn't there. Is it good practice to create a new reference, to the same source, but a different edition? The alternatives are to either leave out the bit I want to add, or change all the references to HB to my book. Here's the story:

"He asks his followers to bury him at the place where the Saxons first landed in Britain as a totem against further invasion. However, his followers fail to heed his warning and the Saxons return.^[1] According to the Welsh Triads his bones were buried "in the Chief Ports of this Island".^[2]" (this is from the existing article).

References

^ Nennius, (Traditional attribution) (1848) [Composed after A.D. 830]. Gunn, W.; Giles, J. A. (translators) (eds.). History of the Britons: Chapter 44 – via Wikisource. {{citation}}: |editor2-first= has generic name (help)
^ Bromwich, Rachel (1978). Trioedd Ynys Prydein (4th ed.). Cardiff: University of Wales Pres. p. 94. ISBN 978-1-78316-146-1.

I want to add: "But if they had kept his command, there is no doubt that they would have obtained whatever they wished by the prayers of saint Germanus", which isn't in the wikisource, and would need a different reference.

Hope that's clearer. Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 20:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Maryanne Cunningham: Third possibility: leave in the existing sources and cite this other. It's a bit of a conundrum that (if I have it right) there's different translations for this ancient major chronicle that is the predominant source for material on Vortimer, with different content. I am very unfamiliar with this topic, and doing this is tricky, but I suspect if this article were taken to its most polished state, it would have in-text attribution at certain points and/or explanatory footnotes, or some combination, that would explain that most account come from this text, that these different translated versions of it exist, maybe a short description of the major ones, and the differences. Maybe you can say something like: "According to the ___ version of the History of the Britons... "quote". Anyway, I do think you can go right ahead and place the content and cite this book. If you need help with how to craft that citation form, please advise, e.g., with a link to the google books page, even if the content is hidden, or tell me the details of the book (page of the quote, title, author(s), publisher, location, isbn, anything else relevant for the specific context. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Fuhghettaboutit. I'll add: 'Another manuscript adds....' and then the new reference (I can do that, I believe!). It is a bit of a minefield (doesn't help that everything I go near is from the 5th/6th centuries). Your expertise is very helpful Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 19:44, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Maryanne Cunningham: Anytime. You're the expert here. I'm the meta generalist;-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:54, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fuhghettaboutit, I would not call myself an expert, but thank you! Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 22:59, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[Britons44-1] Nennius, (Traditional attribution) (1848) [Composed after A.D. 830]. Gunn, W.; Giles, J. A. (translators) (eds.). History of the Britons: Chapter 44 – via Wikisource. {{citation}}: |editor2-first= has generic name (help)

[2] Bromwich, Rachel (1978). Trioedd Ynys Prydein (4th ed.). Cardiff: University of Wales Pres. p. 94. ISBN 978-1-78316-146-1.

[1]

[2]