Talk:WJHU

This article needs some serious reworking to avoid another deletion. It might work to reframe it as an article about the defunct radio station (now WYPR), with added information as to its early history and current use of the call letters at Johns Hopkins.--A12n (talk) 20:17, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. The article as it stands is not exactly accurate regarding the student years, but probably reflects legend in the current station. As one of the leaders of that era, I might be able to muster up some rewrites and far more detail, right down to reproducing most of the programming schedule and even providing mp3s of programming from tapes people have at some point.

But I am not sure how to go about pleasing the "no original research/cite your sources" as most if not all of this is going to be of the "oral history" type. I suppose the Newsletter and early City Paper archives might have some info, but even that is going to be thin. Anyone seeing this with an interest in assisting, please contact me. Humanisland (talk) 20:37, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

You're right on the "oral history" aspect - though in some cases that's first hand accounts - not sure how one references those on Wikipedia. As far as I'm familiar with the history (before FM) it's accurate. In the mid-70s Charlie Hamilton wrote up a history of Hopkins radio up until that time - no idea if he still has that or if it is saved somewhere.--A12n (talk) 05:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

As for splitting the article, that might be a good idea. But as I understand it, the call letters are NOT in current use, just that there is a internet website based on campus called wjhuradio.com, but with no broadcast ability )over the air I mean). As such, is there any connection at all? Have then inherited any space (don't think so due to intervening building renovations) or studio equipment (possible).

Given that, maybe a pre-WYPR article, a post-WYPR article (maybe already exists, haven't checked), and a student-run (carrieer current, then web only) article is in order, with a disambiguation page for the 3 WJHU entries? That way, the groups who are most familiar with each can be responsible for maintaining the most related article Humanisland (talk) 21:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Each article would have to meet another criterion - is the subject important enough to merit an article? Per my earlier suggestion (above) I'd propose a "WJHU (defunct)" article (there are articles on defunct radio stations), which can reference the origin and uses of the call letters. In a way the old WJHU-AM carrier current station was always (or for a long time) seen as the precursor to an eventual FM station, so much of the early history of student radio at Hopkins is relevant to such an article. As would be a discussion of the university administration's policy decisions re the FM station (from beginning to end). Etc. An article with several sections could facilitate contributions focused on periods of time and/or specific topics. Perhaps there could later be a general article on audio dissemination media (?) at Johns Hopkins (closed circuit AM, FM, and internet). Don't think there is a separate article out there on Hopkins radio post-WYPR, but I haven't looked carefully either.--A12n (talk) 05:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

That makes a certain amount of sense. Since I posted here last, I have heard about a set of boxes quite possibly containing a lot of historical material from the FM student years, and possibly before. What is in these boxes is unknown for now, but could and would be made available by the holder of the boxes. Contact me via PM here and I will tell you more.

I suspect whatever is there might help frame a future article, and take it out of the realm of "individual research".

As for if a splitting of articles leaves each individual article vulnerable to a claim its topic does not merit an article, I thin that is a judgment call. Depends on how you spin it I suppose (if there is even any doubt, which I don't really foresee). JHU is an important enough institution, and large enough to have many parts which are semi-independent, and yet served the University as a whole in some sense, during their time. Service to such a major institution, with otherwise later well known alumni, seems likely to be sufficient IMHO. Certainly, I recall vividly the size of the library created by the carrier current station over what, 30+ years? That such an effort survived for so long, in a school with no academic department related to the effort is probably enough for any challenges to a WJHU-SM page to stand. The only tricky part is to tie in the transition from FM students -> FM non-students -> FM Non-Hopkins. speaking of which, a quick google of David/Dave Creagh finds nothing less than about 10 years ago...not that I was a fan then, but he might have something to contribute to parts of this.

I dunno, maybe this story is unique, maybe not. Maybe these things end up being refactored a few times as we find out. Humanisland (talk) 21:27, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Wish I had time to delve into some of this. It needs input from several people. Regarding materials, when I graduated I left a bunch of stuff from the transition period (1976-78) to the MSE Library, which I was given to understand had places for records of student activities. Not sure if anyone else did similarly. The old pre-FM operation had a pretty coherent vision about building up an audio library (record albums, some on large-format platters that I had not encountered previously or since), along with a set of ideas about "readiness for transition to FM," without a corresponding vision for how that would happen. They also did not have anything, really, on paper about the history or operation of the station (which actually became an issue in the late-1975 leadup to the transition). So the boxes you mention would probably go back only to the immediate pre-FM transition. Some of the history of radio at JHU before the mid-70s was reconstructed (by another person), but I'm not sure that that paper is still extant, unless it was included in the papers I gave to the library. In any event, it was an unusual institution, if I may call it that, in that it was an idea with some equipment and a place and a changing set of people, with very little sense of its own history. Is that the same story with other college radio organizations (but for the specific details)? In any event, I think that we may have to try something with this article before it's removed again. Unfortunately there is not a website or set of public documents on the station that would provide an easy way to comply with the sources requirement. One coule put up a webpage on WJHU and then reference it, but the separate merits of such a site apart, it might make more sense to cite oneself in the article with contact details. How does WP deal with first-hand histories anyway?--A12n (talk) 04:57, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if, active talk here about what to do will prevent the article form being deleted. It is clearly not abandoned.

I think WJHU history is unique for the reasons each of us has stated - it was a long lasting media operation, operated by many generations of students (and later community members) as a volunteer effort, with NO academic support and no NPR or other network affiliation. I think that is key - I imagine many other schools with "media" programs have similar stations. At least during the FM years, we were actively denied the ability to do fundraising of any sort - I tried. We surely could have raised some money from "friends" in the music and arts communities and maybe beyond. Other stations, with media programs, probably have faculty/admin support and guidance for these activities. Now that I think about it, KZSU (Stanford) may be in a similar boat - I am not aware of any media program there, similarly for the station at Santa Clara University (which is mostly community run I think). Maybe the story is not unique, and that might be the framework for another article, aggregating the typical story.

In case you did not know, there is a Facebook group for WJHU alums. I am going to raise these issues there - and it was from someone there that I found of the potential boxes of history.

You may be right that they date only to the pending FM switchover though. Good to know that you gave some stuff to the library, it must still be there somewhere. I pretty much begged to get together a committee that would preserve the material at the time of the power upgrade, at MSE or wherever appropriate, but was rebuffed again by our administration handlers. To this day, I don't really understand why. I really really really wanted to preserve the record collection intact, but it was scattered to the wind. I really don't understand why the University Archivists weren't seeking us out. But maybe they did some work behind the scenes on their own, maybe that is something worth looking into also. Hopkins Newsletter archives probably contain at least the occasional article, and I suspect the founders of Baltimore City Paper might have some material too - I know they came from the Newsletter, but were any of them involved with the station before FM? I know Michael Yockel had a show after FM. How did City Paper cover the swithover? Another possible source of material. Humanisland (talk) 16:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

2010

New year and just returning to this briefly. Thx for the mention of Facebook - will try to get over there to check that out. I'm not sure that the reprieve for this page is indefinite - I kinda had to beg to get it reinstated and there have not been any changes in the article since. Maybe the FB group could stir some action.--A12n (talk) 06:07, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Discussion of edits

Tried to upgrade, incorporating what sources I could find on the quick (so eliminated the tag about lack of sources). Edits included attempts to reduce verbiage and stay to main points. This is more complete, and I think reads better, but I'll leave to others to improve and fill out as appropriate. The larger question is that although the topic holds together as a coherent piece of JHU history - the logical title for which is "WJHU" - it is also disjunct as concerns radio entities (carrier current AM, then FM, another carrier current AM concurrent with FM, all stop, and then internet radio). The old "If you knew WJHU, you'd know it's new now" takes on another level of meaning. Anyway, stay tuned for possible questions from WP editors.--A12n (talk) 15:42, 19 September 2013 (UTC)