Talk:Waldo Williams

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'Waldo' or 'Williams'?[edit]

Should this article follow the usual Wikipedia convention and refer to Waldo Williams as 'Williams' in the body of the article? There is a case for overriding this convention and using 'Waldo'. The Wikipedia guideline is at MOS:SURNAME.

He is often referred to by the mononym 'Waldo'. The Dictionary of Welsh Biography says "he is often referred to by his first name only".[1]
'Waldo' has some of the characteristics of a bardic name. There is a tradition of referring to Welsh language poets by their bardic name, and bardic names are used in the main text of several Wikipedia on Welsh poets, including many or most of those listed in Archdruid.
Waldo is an unusual name in Wales whereas Williams is very common. The article is clearer if we use 'Waldo'.

Comments please. Verbcatcher (talk) 12:33, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion was prompted by my removal of the first name from most of the text today. I accept those three points and I would be happy to go along with a consensus to use the mononym. --Wire723 (talk) 19:03, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:Gwedi elwch

I agree with Verbcatcher and Wire723. Of the three possible ways of referring to the poet (by his Christian name and surname - 'Waldo Williams'; by his Christian name alone - 'Waldo'; or by his surname alone - 'Williams') - the second is the most common form used in Wales - whether the discussion is in Welsh or in English. Waldo is not unique in this - he is one of a small group of Welsh poets who are usually referred to by a single name : e.g. Cranogwen (Sarah Jane Rees), Elfed (Elvet Lewis), Ceiriog (John Hughes), Crwys (William Williams), Dyfnallt (Dyfnallt Morgan), Sarnicol (Thomas Jacob Thomas). The next most common way of referring to this poet would be the first form - 'Waldo Williams'. It would be very rare indeed that the third form - surname alone - would be used. A good example of the general pattern can be found in the website of the Waldo Williams Society (Cymdeithas Waldo Williams) at [2]. Almost all the references throughout the website are to 'Waldo'. Another example - a news article in the West Wales newspaper, the Western Telegraph, on 30 May 2021 (the fiftieth anniversary of his death) similarly makes use of 'Waldo' - see [3]. For this Wikipedia article there is a case for keeping 'Waldo Williams' as a marker at key points - the start of a new section for example. But then the great majority of further references should be to 'Waldo'. Gwedi elwch (talk) 02:17, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Newspapers & websites have their own stylistic conventions which are often not the same as the Wikipedia guideline. Nevertheless I continue to agree that my 2020 edits were probably a mistake ... although no-one has been bold enough to change the text in the three years since then. Wire723 (talk) 09:16, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have made some amendments to give effect to our agreed position. Gwedi elwch (talk) 02:27, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]