Talk:Warlord Rebellion in northeastern Shandong

Mexican Dollars

What does the Warlord Rebellion in northeastern Shandong have to do with Mexican dollars or Mexico, other than the perspective of a French writer, writing about an event almost 90 years before, with two very disconnected societies - China and Mexico? (I am assuming that is the source that actually makes the connection.) Historically, they have nothing to do with each other. I have not read the work of either author, and they may very well have mentioned their reasoning for matching an event in China with an equivalence in Mexican currency, but the Wikipedia editor who adds this detail fails to make the connection for the Wikipedia reader. What is the equivalent value of a Mexican dollar in 1929, or is this Mexican dollars in 2017? The Wikipedia editor fails to mention that as well. This lack of context and any connection to tangible meaning is then highlighted on the frontpage of Wikipedia for the "Did You Know" section of October 16th, 2017. It doesn't exactly make Wikipedia look like an intelligent resource. Hopefully, someone who has access to both Lucien Bianco's book and Philip Jowett's 2017 text can view this to validate that connection, and provide further explanation. Do both books (as the two cited references specifically infer) actually mention this same detail? If that is actually true that both texts include this detail, then certainly this warrants an illustration of that connection, with a broader narrative that would explain it in some form of context. Stevenmitchell (talk) 14:31, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

@Stevenmitchell: Before asserting with such certainty that "Historically, [China and Mexico] have nothing to do with each other", and then disparage the article based on that, you appear to have very little knowledge of Warlord China. At the time, the Mexican dollar was one of the main currencies used in China, which is for example mentioned in Opium, State, and Society: China's Narco-Economy and the Guomindang, 1924-1937; p. 29. Due to the chaos in China during this era, however, as basically every Chinese bank and governor printed their own money, counterfeit money run rampant, and various foreign currencies were also in use, it is not really possible to say how much 10-20 Mexican dollars were worth in comparison to other currencies in Shandong in 1929. The source that mentions the sale of women, namely Bianco, does also not elaborate upon this issue, so it is impossible to elaborate this in the text. I can hardly write something into the article which the sources do not mention. Applodion (talk) 16:39, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

@Stevenmitchell: The silver dollar, minted in Mexico, that was used in China (especially the south), was so popular that it came to be seen as the "Mexican-Chinese dollar"; its value came from the fact that it was a silver currency and thus bound to the silver standard while Chinese paper money was often worthless. In case you are interested, here are a few sources: China's Great Convulsion, 1894-1924 (John Fulton Lewis), p. 136; China's warlords (David Bonavia), p. 76; Civil Government in Warlord China (Ronald Stanley Suleski), p. xiv. After re-reading some of my books on this topics, the Chinese-Mexican dollar should probably have its own Wikipedia article, considering the complexitity of this topic. Applodion (talk) 17:19, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

@Applodion:I agree that the Chinese-Mexican dollar warrants its own article and would assist the digestion of the many references in various Asian articles on both China, Japan, the Philippines (as referenced by Zanhe below) and I am sure there are other nations or cultures that reference this as well, throughout Wikipedia. Thanks for your reply. Regards, Steve... Stevenmitchell (talk) 07:35, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Stevenmitchell: (I guess my simply linking "Mexican dollars" to the section about foreign usage of the Mexican peso didn't clarify things enough.) By the way, this sort of situation where a nation's silver coinage ends up being used far beyond the nation's borders was by no means limited to the Mexican silver dollar in China. One of the most extreme examples of a particular nation's silver currency attaining worldwide popularity is the Maria Theresa thaler, an Austrian silver coin originally minted in the 1700s which became used across the globe well into the twentieth century, and which is still used in some regions even today, long after the demise of the Austrian Empire. --Colin Douglas Howell (talk) 19:07, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

@Stevenmitchell: Sorry to chime in late, as I just saw this thread. "Historically, they have nothing to do with each other" is completely wrong. Mexico's economy had been intimately linked to China's since the inception of Spanish colonization. China, beginning with the Ming dynasty in the 16th century, relied heavily on new world silver as its main currency, and the Spanish colonies of Mexico and Peru were the main suppliers and bought huge amounts of Chinese silk and porcelain in return. It's this trade that prompted Spain to establish the colony of the Philippines as its trading base off the Chinese coast. And it's no accident that Mexico's traditional national dress is called China poblana. -Zanhe (talk) 18:49, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Chinese name of this conflict?

Does anyone know what this rebellion is called in Chinese? RGloucester — ☎ 16:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)