Talk:Whittlesey culture

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Theory Proposal On What Happened To The Whittlesey[edit]

I was able to track down a small bit of relevant info, based on the date of their destruction being in the 1640s, during the Beaver Wars, but before the Erie themselves were destroyed in the 1650s. The Jesuit Relations brings up at one point that the French had learned from their Native informants that the Erie- or Yenresh, in this instance- were at war with a Nation to the west of them who were similar to the Algonquians the French knew along the St. Lawrence. The also had claimed that, when the Erie became involved in the Beaver Wars, the Iroquois hadn't declared war on them- they had declared war on the Iroquois jointly with the Susquehannocks.

So, my theory is that the Iroquois joined forces with the Whittlesey & had them fighting the Erie & Susquehannocks, but to no avail. The Erie won that war, but were left too weak to fight the Iroquois themselves, leading to their destruction within the following decade. Alternatively, one of the reasons the Iroquois were supposedly mad at the Erie was that they were harboring fugitives from the other Nations they had been at war with. Maybe they used those bolstered forces to declare war on the Whittlesey & try to expand their territory? I would definitely say that the Conneaut Works Whittlesey Village & the alleged Erie compound directly across the river, combined with other likely Erie sites further west, but more inland (there is another Erie village site in Windsor, OH, for example) show clear signs of conflict between the two people's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbotronica (talk • contribs) 04:48, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Identity of the Whittlesey Culture[edit]

Having only just realized how unique these people were & clearly not the same as the Erie, I have a suggestion for their identity. If anyone attached to this page happens to be an expert on the matter, I'd like to know their opinion.

I think this tribe may have been recorded as the Ontarraronon by the Huron & Ganyada:'gehronon by the Iroquois- both meaning "Lake People." Ontarraronon was given to the French, but when they went by the shores & saw the villages, they clearly misunderstood them to have been more Erie. They literally say some villages of the Erie lands are Palisaded in the Iroquois manner, but others are surrounded by earthern berms- the confusion probably occuring, since they were constructing long houses by then. Archaeologically speaking, it's obvious the Earthen berm villages were Whittlesey, not Erie. Because of this mixup, the name Ontarraronon gets pushed all the way west to the Miami. I have to assume the name makes a lot more sense being applied to the Whittlesey Culture.

I'm still not 100% sure how to feel about cultural placement, since these people were such a melting pot of all the other people's around them- Algonquians, Siouans & Iroquoians- but due to their unchanging burial practices & a reference I found from a secondhand historical source saying that the Erie were upset after losing a war with people to the west of them, who were in the Algonquian sphere, I think I would call these "Lake People" Algonquians. Some of them may have merged with the Iroquois, so there is a chance to get a somewhat clearer understanding from their oral history, if any still exists. If Algonquian, then their name in their own language would probably be along the lines of Agamiwi, which I am stealing from Ojibwe. That tribe say they left people behind when they migrated west from New York, so perhaps these were the original people meant in the stories, ergo the most similar linguistically? Bobbotronica (talk) 22:55, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wanted to give an additional note on what I wrote. Anishinaabeg know of a "Lake People" also & I wasn't far off with the name- Odagami. They think the term refers to the Sauk & Fox tribes. So, Huron Lake People are allegedly the Miami, Anishinaabeg Lake People are the Fox/ Sauk & Iroquois Lake People are unidentified & two of three put Lake People very close to the Whittlesey Culture. Also want to point out that, while the exact stories changed over the colonial era, Anishinaabeg always said that when they migrated to Lake Superior from New York 1000 years ago, they left behind some people roughly in that area whom they could no longer respect or have relations with, as those people corrupted & disrespected the ways of their ancestors. Whittlesey definitely seem like to most likely culprit for the people the story was originally referencing. Bobbotronica (talk) 20:48, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]