Talk:World of Glass (St Helens)

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Merseyside

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Glass

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Location[edit]

User:24may1819 states in the lead that World of Glass is in the historic county of Lancashire. We do not live in historic counties. We live in the real world and World of Glass, which was only founded in 2000, has never been in Lancashire. Dormskirk (talk) 20:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The word ‘Historic’ means ‘important or likely to be important in history’: eg. I feel that this is a historic moment for our country.

It appears that Dormskirk is confusing the word ‘historic’ with ‘historical’ - ‘Historical’ means ‘related to the study of things from the past’: eg. Archaeologists found a large number of historical objects when they excavated the field.https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/historic-or-historical

Therefore, even from a simple definition of the word ‘historic’, we DO live in historic counties as they are important throughout time, they are not something from the past that no longer exists or is to be discovered.

This issue has been clarified numerous times by the UK Government, including, among others:

“The local authority areas and boundaries introduced in April 1974 do not alter the traditional boundaries of counties.”

Michael Portillo MP - Local Government Minister, 11 July 1990

“The Local Government Act 1972 did not abolish traditional counties, only administrative ones.

Although, for local government purposes some of the historic counties have ceased to be administrative areas, they continue to exist for other purposes, organisations and local groups.”

Department of the Environment – 3 September 1991

Perhaps the most comprehensive, a statement issued on 23 April 2013 reads:

“A significant number of counties were ‘administratively abolished’ by the government in the Local Government Act 1972.

In a symbolic move, Eric Pickles will assert that England’s historic and traditional counties still exist, and are now recognised by the government - including the likes of Cumberland, Huntingdonshire, Westmorland and Middlesex.”

“Today, on St George’s Day, we commemorate our patron saint and formally acknowledge the continuing role of our traditional counties in England’s public and cultural life.”

Eric Pickles, Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government – 23 April 2013

Further examples can be found from the Campaign for Historic Counties website.

Just as Wikipedia now recognises that traditional (historic) counties are important enough to have a place in the UK place name info box, it is surely advantageous for this to be at least occasionally included in articles on other subjects? 24may1819 (talk) 08:34, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but in this case it is very misleading. World of glass was only established in 2000 and was never in Lancashire. St Helens has not been part of Lancashire for some 50 years. Dormskirk (talk) 09:49, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is not misleading. As the references and quotes above show, traditional (also known as historic) counties still exist and the traditional (historic) county of Lancashire includes the town of St Helens. It is true that the town is not under Lancashire County Council (although it never has been anyway and neither is Blackpool or Blackburn with Darwen) but it is still part of the County Palatine. 24may1819 (talk) 13:09, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - You might want to take a look at WP:UKCOUNTIES and in particular note the comment In respect of England, Scotland and Wales, a fundamental part of this guide is to reaffirm the long established position that we do not take the view that the historic/ancient/traditional counties still exist with the former boundaries. But my main objection is that World of Glass, which was only established in 2000, has never been in the county of Lancashire: the article is incorrect as currently drafted. I am restoring the disputed tag (which should not be removed until this issue has been resolved). Dormskirk (talk) 14:56, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dormskirk, thanks for that, but I am afraid that I take issue with the article linked, as it states 'we do not take the view that the traditional counties still exist'. This is clearly complete nonsense, as illustrated by the many UK Government statements (some listed above) which assert that traditional counties DO still exist. Why should what wikipedia thinks (which I say is inaccurate anyway) trump official Government statements on the matter? The town of St Helens is part of the County Palatine of Lancashire, which it has been for many centuries, therefore the World of Glass is too. I am, however, going to remove references to county if it means the 'inaccurate' label can be removed, as, for the average person browsing, they will assume that the whole article should be disregarded as it must lack credibility for some reason they cannot fathom, which is unhelpful to us all. 24may1819 (talk) 17:10, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Thanks for that. I should of course point out that there has been considerable discussion on WP:UKCOUNTIES and it therefore cannot be regarded as "complete nonsense". On wikipedia, it is of course, wikipedia policies that matter and we are entirely independent and not bound or influenced by the views of any government. Best wishes, Dormskirk (talk) 17:21, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Possible copyright violation[edit]

Large parts of the main text of this article seem to have been copied and pasted from elsewhere: https://www.visitliverpool.com/travel-trade/attractions/temporarily-closed-the-world-of-glass-p390651 And part of the lead seems to have been copied and pasted from here: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/9-things-see-world-glass-9993985 Dormskirk (talk) 20:37, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This has now been edited. 24may1819 (talk) 13:03, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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