Talk:Wreath (attire)

Mergre

I oppose the merge. This is not just a wreath, but rather an important part of Ukrainian folklore and dance tradition. For what its worth, Ukrainian wiki has its own article on it uk:вінок. I think it is deserving of its own article. Ostap (talk) 16:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Article should be merged

I have seen girls all over the world using flowers for headress. There is nothing special in this, the article should be merged with main one about that particular part of clothing that is used across the whole world. It's not needed to list it by countries since we would have to list every country in the world where this is worn. A local variation info should be moved to culture or fashion of Korea, Ukraine, Poland, Germany etc.--Molobo (talk) 23:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

No, this article is (was?) about the specific Ukrainian tradition. The folk meaning of the Vinok is different than a headdress of Korea. What is the problem of having the specific article about the Ukrainian tradition? If someone wants to write about the headress of Korea and the folk meaning or it, they should. Ostap (talk) 23:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there is enough to warrent a seperate article on wreath, perhaps it should be inserted into Ukrainian tradition article rather then being a seperate one. Anyway feel free to do it, but the main article about Wreath shouldn't be dominated by Ukrainian version, since it is worn all over the world.--Molobo (talk) 23:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wreath . a. A ring or circlet of flowers, boughs, or leaves worn on the head, placed on a memorial, or hung as a decoration..

So it should be merged with main article.--Molobo (talk) 23:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Ostap, but the Belarusian tradition is very similar to the Ukrainian one. And they both ascend to the pre-Christian Slavic times. Meanings are also similar. Why not cover them together under the anglicized title? The article on this tradition can elaborate on the Ukrainian Вiнок and Belarusian Вянок in separate sections. If none of our Polish friends are interested in expanding on the Polish traditional Wianek, we will try to do it ourselves at some point. Or are you saying that separate Vinok and Vianok articles are warranted?

I am not sure what is Molobo's proposal. Where does he want to merge it to. Wreath? That article is about the decorations for cemeteries, walls and car-grills. --Irpen 00:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Per definition:

A ring or circlet of flowers, boughs, or leaves worn on the head, placed on a memorial, or hung as a decoration.

Are you arguing that this definition is wrong Irpen ? And really please, this type of clothing is found all over the world. To claim flowers are worn in hair only in Belarus and Ukraine is just bizarre.

Also, the wreath article already has a section called use by culture. The info about Ukrainian variant can be moved there.

• "That article is about the decorations for cemeteries, walls and car-grills"

Did you read that article ? Because it is also writes about headdress variant of wreath in Rome.So if this article stays the information about Wreath as an attire will have o be moved here.--Molobo (talk) 00:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Molobo, we have separate articles for car and for lathe rather than have them "merged" to machine. Wreath as a garb warrants a separate article from wreath as an ornament. There is enough non-overlap here. As for having Belarusian and Ukrainian aspect together, this is because of their cultural similarity. You expressed your dissatisfaction with the fact that the Polish nation is also considered to be Slavic one. I understand it may be frustrating. You don't have to help with this article. --Irpen 00:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Irpen I'm saddened that you try to turn this discussion into personal remarks about fellow editor. It's not constructive. May I ask you not to engage in such behaviour in future ? Anyway Wreath is already treated also as a piece of clothing in the main article under 'use by culture'. I see no reason not to put info on Ukraine there. Of course if you want to have an article based solely on its use as piece of clothing then info from main Wreath article will have to be moved here. But it will be just simpler to merge this article.--Molobo (talk) 01:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I expanded this article with info about Rome

But I am curious about traditions in other regions of the world(Asia, Native Americans). Are there any Wikiboards where a question could be asked for people to contribute further to this article ? For example like this: Each crowns her glossy head with a wreath of wild flowers, and they dance with slow steps around the white birch, singing meanwhile the sacred songs. http://home.online.no/~arnfin/native/lore/leg096.htm Sioux traditions and culture --Molobo (talk) 01:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Molobo, you merely copy/pasted from another article on a loosely related subject forking it for no need. There is little relation is this symbol in Rome and in the Slavic cultures. Please stop. --Irpen 01:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

merge?

I am confused. What merge is at issue now? I realize that it has been merged to its present title, which is clearly what it should be. Merging to wreath I don't think is necessary. As it is now I think is the right title. Ostap (talk) 01:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess it can stay, but we need to expand on Rome and Native American traditions.--Molobo (talk) 01:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

PAsting NA tradition together with a Slavic one is like pasting rabbit and hare into one article. Or should we rework the title to reflect the more limited scope. So much fuss over my well-intended proposal at the Polish board asking to help. Sigh. --Irpen 01:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

On a second thought merge is better since there is little info. If the Wreath article becomes big enough we can split the info about Roman, Ukrainian, American, Asian, Belarusian versions to new article only about its use as head dress.--Molobo (talk) 01:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I think this article should be merged into wreath. We can have a section on its use in various cultures (Polish, Russian, Ukrainian). I see no reason why we should split them into individual articles per country, where subsections will do. PS. We can also divide the article into ornament and attire sections; I see no reason why we should have ornament at wreath and attire at wreath (attire) - why not have the wreath (ornament)? Sure, we could try a disambig, but they are so closely related that I think one article for now will be better.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, please read this talk from the top. Thank you. --Irpen 01:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Good heavens, if I knew the problems this would cause, I would not have created the article. I think the individual country article idea has already been shot down. The current title is the best, in my opinion. I find no merge to wreath necessary. Ostap (talk) 01:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, perhaps your original idea was the best judging from the Wikipedia climate. I tried to expand the scope a little to include the closely related traditions but look what it brought. Native American, Roman, Korean, sigh. Let's then move it to Ukrainian wreath if this would help fend off further attacks. --Irpen 01:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Irpen, again you call expansion and good faith edits "attacks". This is not civil. Could you beheave in more friendly, or at least neutral way ? Anyway I am surprised you didn't knew wreaths are used outside of Ukraine, hopefully soon we shall have some pretty picture of one of those used in Americas.--Molobo (talk) 01:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Not in the article about the Slavic tradition. I know about other countries, Molobo. Those have no relation to this. Ostap, what do you think about my proposal? --Irpen 01:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

This is an article about Wreath. If you want to write historic article about traditions from 1000 years ago, you are free to do so in proper articles..--Molobo (talk) 01:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

sorry about that. Ostap (talk) 02:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Part of your text is scrambled on my monitor, after the 'that our' part, please write in Latin alphabet. And I look forward to your contributions in Ukrainian culture article. Best regards. --Molobo (talk) 01:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

There is an article on polish wiki that should be translated in to this one. Ostap (talk) 02:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, I moved Ostap's text into the Ukrainian wreath and replaced it here with the summary. This will hopefully conclude the arguments. I don't care about merging this one anymore. --Irpen 02:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Since its used in Rome and among Indigenous People's of Americas, I hope nobody will oppose removing "slavic countries" bit.--Molobo (talk) 02:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

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