Talk:Yazur

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NPOV[edit]

The article doesn't tell about the attacks against Jewish Vehicles going through the village. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.64.81.64 (talk) 08:18, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've just noticed that too - quite annoying, actually. I'll be adding them later on today. Shilton (talk) 07:41, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just added a few things to make the article a bit more balanced. Right now it's sort of divided into two sections and perhaps ordering them by date is a better approach. Shilton (talk) 13:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You removed what Morris says about the instruction on not harming women and children, namely that it was qualified by insomuch as possible, and I cant see anything about anything being forbidden. Why did you do that? nableezy - 14:10, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence "Women and children were no to be harmed, and looting was forbidden" is extracted directly from Morris's 2008 book on the Arab-Israeli war. The source for that statement in the book is "Operation Hametz HQ to Givati, etc., 27 Apr. 1948, 14:00 hours, IDFA 67\51\\677". Shilton (talk) 08:18, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Birth of the Palestinian refugee problem, revisited says, on page 217, the following:

But the ﬁnal operational order stated: ‘Civilian inhabitants of places conquered would be permitted to leave after they are searched for weapons.’ It cautioned the troops against harming women and children ‘insofar as possible’ and against looting and ‘undisciplined acts [maasei hefkerut], robbery, or harming holy places’. Prisoners, it instructed, were to be moved to the brigade HQs.

Note the insofar as possible quoted from the order, and the phrasing cautioned against, not forbade. What page of 1948 are you getting this from? And either way, insofar as possible should be returned to the text. nableezy - 13:34, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As you can see from the current citation, it's from page 152. "Revisited" does seem to quote the actual source more accurately, so you're welcome to incorporate it into the text. Shilton (talk) 12:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is a complete falsification of the source given. The only mention of Yazur on that page is to say that it was attached by IZL. Nothing say that people of Yazur had been implicated in attics against Jewish houses, pedestrians, or traffic. Huldra (talk) 18:10, 10 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mistake, mixup with Yasur, Gaza[edit]

--Victor Guérin spells Yazur and Yasur, Gaza exactly the same way in French; Yazour. In the Judee index p. 398 he gives:

- Yazour, Gazer, Gezer? I, 26-29
- Yazour, Hatsor-Hadattah, Asor Nova, II, 67, 68.

--Guerin spells them the same way also in Arabic (check!) however, for the Judee, II, 67-ref, he gives an alternative Arabic spelling which equals the spelling in Yasur, Gaza. (check!)

--Petersen, 2001, pp. 311, 313 in Yazur refers to Judee II, 67, 68. ("By the time of the visit of Guerin the village contained 450 inhabitants involved in the cultivation of tobacco and olives (Judee, II, 67)) This is wrong. (It should be Judee I, 26-29) ( However, Guerin also discusses *which* ancient places these villages were. How much of mixup there has been there remains to be seen. )

--Dauphin p.863 correctly places Judee II, 67, 68 at Yasur, Gaza.

Biased parts in the article[edit]

The part about the 1947-1948 period is completely biased towards the Arab agenda. Filastin newspaper is not a legitimate source, especially when no other sources are provided, because as an Arab newspaper is wasn't committed to neutrality. The constant shootings on Jewish vehicles moving towards Jerusalem, carried out from Yazur houses is not mentioned anywhere in the article, despite there are a lot of reliable sources about that. Suggesting putting a "Bias" tag on the part, until fixed. Elvenking (talk) 13:47, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mustafa al-Siddiqi al-Bakri[edit]

Here is what information Khalidi gives on Mustafa al-Siddiqi al-Bakri.

Page 614:

al-Bakri, Mustafa al-Siddiqi (wrote 1710), Al-Khamra al-hasiyya fi al-rihla al-qudsiyya. Manuscript in the national library of the Federal Republic of Germany, No. 466 Mq 6149; also cited in al-Khalidi, 1968.
(n.a.), Al-Rihla ila Jabal Lubnan. This unpublished and unedited manuscript has been extensively cited in al-Khalidi, 1968.
(n.a.), Al-Hulla al-dhahabiyya. This unpublished and unedited manuscript has been extensively cited in al-Khalidi, 1968.

"Al-Khalidi, 1968" is an Arabic work of a different Khalidi. Page 613:

al-Khalidi, Ahmad Samih (1968), Ahl al-‘ilm wa al-hukm fi rif Filastin (Scholars and Rulers from the Palestinian Countryside). Amman: Dar al-thaqafa wa al-funun.

So there is one manuscript written in 1710 and two other manuscripts whose dates are not available. From this it isn't clear why Khaldi writes "mid-18th century" but it isn't clear he is wrong either. We don't have the information needed to question it and sorting out people of similar names is too error-prone. Therefore, I don't think a tag in the article (rather than a note on the talk page) is appropriate. Zero^talk 02:38, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Now I see that Walid Khalidi's PhD thesis was on this guy. I found the following in Büssow's book "Hamidian Palestine", p381:

Mustafa al-Bakri al-Siddiqi (d. 1162/1749) is the author of a travelogue that is an important source for the history of Palestine in the eighteenth century (see Brockelmann, GAL II 349, and S II 477). On Siddiqi's travelogue, see Walid Khalidi, Mustafa al-Bakri al-Siddiqi's Journey to Jerusalem (Oxford, D.Phil. thesis, 1952).

GAL is "Carl Brockelmann, Geschichte der arabischen Litteratur". I don't see what S is, probably a supplement volume of GAL. I have access to this work on paper, but my German is crap. That settles it, no? Zero^talk 02:55, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Biography starts at the bottom of page 348 here. Zero^talk 03:47, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Zero, and thanks! Now it's sorted. For the actual significance of al-Bakri (not simply a "traveller", but a Sufi teacher who happened to be an itinerant one and who kept on returning to Jerusalem), see Gideon Weigert, SHAYKH MUSTAPHA KAMAL AL DIN AL BAKRI – A SUFI REFORMER IN EIGHTEENTH-CENTURY EGYPT [1].Arminden (talk) 20:10, 27 July 2015 (UTC)Arminden[reply]

Improvements to the article[edit]

Hi, I translated this article into French and while I was glad to benefit from the significative work done here on Yazur, it also made me aware of some of the flaws of the original version. Here are some sources and remarks to improve the English article.

Iron age/antiquity : see this article : David Ben-Shlomo, « The Cemetery of Azor and Early Iron Age Burial Practices », Levant, vol. 40, no 1,‎ avril 2008, p. 29–54 [2]
Crusades : Denys Pringle, The Churches of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem: A Corpus: Volume 2, L-Z (excluding Tyre), Cambridge University Press, 1993 [3]
Arab - Israeli conflict. In my opinion, the article is biased there. Not because what is said about the Zionist/Israeli actions against the local Arab population is inaccurate but because there is no mention whatsoever of the attacks perpetrated in Yazur on the Jews travelling on the Jaffa/Jerusalem road which give another perspective the Jewish attacks on Yazur. Regarding this topic, I found a source, Uri Milstein, History of the War of Independence: The first month [4] and I'm looking for other material. On he:wiki there is a whole article on seven Jewish notrim (guards) killed in Yazur, there is a corresponding category in Commons. See this link for more info [5].
The village today The organisation of this section is confusing. Instead of organizing it by source it should be organized by monument, one section for each maqam and a third section for the other structures. More pictures can be found in Commons.

Regards--Kimdime (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]