Talk:Yo-yo club

Amazingly Burnley F.C. were forgotten. They so far in 2023 have been promoted and relegated twelve times each (24 in total), putting them fifth in the all-time "order of merit" for yo-yoing between divisions (data sourced from Wikipedia). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.181.193 (talk) 06:19, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

80.2.35.201 (talk) 14:16, 22 September 2012 (UTC)The up and down table80.2.35.201 (talk) 14:16, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Aston Villa,Newcastle,Leeds and West ham haven't been included.

Definition[edit]

We'll need to gain consensus on the bounds of the concept, or a definition. Right now, there seem to be too many clubs "qualifying" for the article, and it seems arbitrary who are mentioned and who aren't. Narssarssuaq (talk) 15:55, 5 February 2009 (UTC) Nottingham Forest should also deserve a place in this articles, following promotions and relegation in the 90's. (Anonymous). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.200.37.216 (talk) 08:37, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Improving this article[edit]

As a West Brom fan and Wikipedia nut, I have a keen interest in this article which I've only just come across. I've been doing some fairly ruthless editing this afternoon, but have tried to retain other people's content and just improve the readability etc. In the end I decided that too much needs doing for me to do it unanimously and I need to seek some concensus.

I agree that we need a definition. I think we should consider the context in which the term (yo-yo club) is used in the media generally; and this (in England at least) is principally for clubs that have been promoted and relegated, to and from the Premier League, several times over a relatively short period. As I've already put in the article, West Brom 2002-10 is a classic example, and so is Birmingham City 2002-11.

As a starter for ten, I suggest that we should concentrate on teams that have at least five changes of division, at a rate of at least one every two years. I also think we should concentrate mainly on promotions and relegations to and from the top flight.

This would include:

West Brom 2002-10 (7 changes in 9 years)
Birmingham City 2002-11 (6 changes in 10 years)
Nottingham Forest 1992-9 (5 changes in 8 years)
Crystal Palace 1989-98 (6 changes in 10 years) and especially 1993-8 (5 in 6)
Bolton Wanderers 1995-2002 (5 changes in 8 years - after being in the 4th Division in 1988)
Wolves 1976-89 (9 changes in 14 years, including a drop to the 4th - but also including 5 changes between the top two divisions in 9 years, 1976-84)
Leicester 1994-2004 (6 changes in 10 years) and possibly 1978-87 (5 changes in 10 years)
Sunderland 1996-2007 (7 changes in 11 years)

Not sure about these:

Chelsea 1975-89 (only 6 changes in 14 years, but interesting given their current status)
Manchester City 1983-2002 (10 changes in 19 years, including one season in the third tier)
Middlesbrough 1982-98 (10 changes in 17 years, also including one season in the third tier)

For me, the following don't cut the mustard:

West Ham 1979-2011 (9 changes in 22 years)
Norwich 1972-2011 (11 changes over nearly 40 years)
Brighton 1958-2011 (19 changes in 43 years, but all over the divisions and only one short spell in the top tier)
Watford (lots of changes over the years, but basically a Championship club for over 20 years now with two isolated seasons in the Premier League and one in the third tier)
If Watford do qualify, IMO it would be for 1969-82 (6 changes in 14 years, but mainly in the lower divisions and ending in their first ever promotion to the top flight - and the term "yo-yo club" hadn't been invented then AFAIK)

I also think we should include some attempt to explain the phenomenon - and I do think it's a phenomenon - and my paragraph in the intro about West Brom and Jeremy Peace is a first shot at this. It needs some references obviously.

We also need more external references - these shouldn't be too hard to find, and I'll undertake to track some down once we've agreed the content.

Haydn01 (talk) 16:35, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2017 Revision Cycle?[edit]

I have improved the Norwich City section and I will look to address the now-deleted Swansea section as they are indeed a good example of a yo-yo club IMHO. As for @Haydn01's assertion from six years ago that this section should concentrate on top flight clubs I agree to a degree — certainly putting in the likes of Rochdale or Bury whom regularly oscillate between the lower two divisions would be pointless, but I would think we should not be too dogmatic.

Unother (talk) 17:03, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccuracy to promotions/relegations[edit]

Having researched this subject anyway, I came across this article and realised the numbers in particular for Grimsby and Birmingham are incorrect. Grimsby have had 12 promotions, not 14, and Birmingham have had 14, not 12. I have checked this across several sources. I have not checked the rest of the numbers for the other teams. 2.98.65.197 (talk) 12:17, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]