Talk:Yobidashi

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costumes[edit]

I asked on Reddit whether & how costumes correlated with rank, but got no answer. Now I see in the external link "Interview With a Yobidashi" that they don't, so I'd like to edit that into the article. HOWEVER, at the starts of the "lower-division highlights" published on YouTube in the "mt fuji" channel, there is always an initial announcement by a senior yobidashi always wearing black. I'd like to explain this too. Can anybody point me to a useful reference? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:9200:11A0:3810:3483:355C:6D91 (talk) 14:38, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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GA Review[edit]

Passed. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:26, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Yobidashi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 23:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs)

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Links[edit]

Prose[edit]

Lede[edit]

Sorry, I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I'm French, and the terms used simply reflect the articles and books from which they are taken.
 Done
 Done
  • former sekiwake Takamiyama,[4 - do we need to state his former rank? Can we not just say by former sumo? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, I think it's important to mention the rank in order to emphasise the fact that the testimony comes from someone who used to be high up in the hierarchy (which means several decades in pro sumo). Sumo wrestlers are also called rikishi btw ;)
I am familiar with rikishi, but mainly only due to the professional wrestler of the same name. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On what subject? For the yobidashi: I've only found sources on the lack of a surname. None of them mention the reason for that lack, but one hypothesis is that it comes from the yobidashi's commoner origins. Concerning the names of the people mentioned (like Takamiyama): it is common in sumo articles to mention only the family name, these ring names often being unique.
We're linking to Takamiyama Daigorō, so why not use his full name in the prose.Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • ] and subject to the same strict hierarchy and traditional appearance as the other professions gravitating around professional sumo, - I have no idea what this means. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reformulated.
 Done
  • the dohyō (wrestling ring) or - this is a personal thing, I suppose, but I think we're wiser to say what the thing is, and then use the official name in brackets, rather than the other way around. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree with that, as it would reduce the clarity of the information. It won't have escaped your notice that a dohyo doesn't really look like the ring you imagine it to be when you say 'ring' (like those used in pro wrestling or boxing, for example).
  • However, as they are not restricted to their duties on tournament days - surely the other tasks are part of their duties? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In a simplified sentence, I wanted to emphasise the fact that they had duties other than those performed in public, which they carried out in a more discreet way.

General[edit]

  • The status of yobidashi - presumably you mean that they weren't called that, or the role didn't exist? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both in truth, the appearance of people performing a more or less similar role is detailed just after.
 Done
 Done
  • and it's not uncommon for most of the newcomers to be amateur wrestlers who haven't managed to break through but are keen to stay in the world of sumo, which fascinates them. - condense. This is puffy to state they are fascinated. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Removed term
  • as described - what?
The term referred to the hierarchical presentation immediately following. Misleading, I deleted it.
  • 400,000 yen ($2513, or €2313) - see MOS:CURRENCY. No need to link euro or dollar, but this needs to give a date as to when this has been converted, and there should be commas in the numbers. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd still like to keep the link to the currency used. Otherwise done.
  • Since October 2019 the tate-yobidashi position has been vacant after the incumbent, Takuro, from Kasugano stable, was suspended for two tournaments and announced his retirement for hitting a junior yobidashi over the head after he caught him eating in the customer seating area on jungyō.[ - as this has now been usurped, it can be removed. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm (weakly) leaning towards keeping the information, as it shows that the top of the hierarchy can be vacant.
  • In keeping with their workman outfits, - I don't think we've stated that is what they wear. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sentence deleted, as regards the first remark.
  • who enter the ring are notoriously using cheat sheets so as not to make any mistakes in public - cheat sheets? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:18, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The term is the one used by John Gunning. The yobidashi discreetly use small sheets of paper tucked away in their pockets to avoid making a mistake by calling a wrestler by the wrong name. I think this term captures that.
Can we not just say "use notes", rather than a slang term. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done

Review meta comments[edit]

Thank you for your feedback. I've replied in the body of the comments. - OtharLuin (talk) 17:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've left some additional comments, but happy to promote. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 22:43, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(
)

Created by OtharLuin (talk). Self-nominated at 15:50, 4 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Yobidashi; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Otherwise: promoted to GA within the window and generally in good shape. Long enough and the hook is within bounds, cited interesting and generally good for the main page. No evident plagiarism, BLP or other issues. I can't actually see the word trousers in the article; is hakama a Japanese word for that? Would suggest getting the word sumo into the hook for those not familiar with the terminology. Two wise heads pinged above for a procedural question. UndercoverClassicist T·C 12:13, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, thank you for your feedback. I've added the mention of sumo to the body of the hook. The word "trousers" can be found in the dedicated section ("Uniform"). Hakama are indeed what can be likened to traditional kimono trousers. I preferred to use the term trousers to raise more curiosity. - OtharLuin (talk) 12:31, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]


  • @RoySmith and Theleekycauldron: This article has already appeared at DYK (in 2004), which flags red in the DYK checker: however, I can't actually see a rule anywhere that precludes a second appearance if the criteria have been met again.
Nor did I find any mention of a ban. However, the reference is now 20 years old (!) and the article no longer exists in its old form. However, I'll leave it to you to decide whether to refuse it if there is any doubt or if there is a body of opinion along these lines :) - OtharLuin (talk) 12:31, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • To clarify, it is indeed in the rules that once an article has been featured on DYK, it cannot run again unless the previous version was since deleted as a copyvio. However, given that its first appearance on DYK was about 20 years ago, a very different time for both Wikipedia and DYK, not to mention being a long time ago, I wonder if an IAR exemption could be granted here. That, however, would require consensus at WT:DYK. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:15, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would you like me to ask the question on the general Talk? - OtharLuin (talk) 15:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's a possible option but I'd also suggest asking RoySmith and Theleekycauldron. Is this your first DYK nomination? If it is, there might be the possibility of leeway given since sometimes we tend to be more lenient with newcomers. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:47, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A strict reading of the rules would preclude this article from running again, unfortunately. I wonder if now might be the time to try and carve out an exception. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what qualifies me as somebody to ask about DYK rules. I usually just go with whatever Leeky says :-) RoySmith (talk) 01:24, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The two named users replied. As for the DYK nomination, yes, it's my first. The Yobidashi article is also the first I've worked on to achieve GA status. Given what you mentioned earlier and what Leeky mentioned about a good context for changing things, I asked the question about a possible rule change on the general Talk to allow more contributions to the discussion... - OtharLuin (talk) 08:33, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment. As the nomination rules now have been changed, I require a review of the substance of the article to re-nominate Yobidashi in DYK. - OtharLuin (talk) 08:07, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • UndercoverClassicist, what's your read? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 03:07, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not quite sure what's being asked here: is the change in question simply that the article can re-run? If so, I don't see any reason to change my initial judgement that the article and hook are good to go in themselves. on that basis (but please correct me if I've missed something!) UndercoverClassicist T·C 07:28, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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