Template:Did you know nominations/Emery ball, Russ Ford, Cy Falkenberg, Ed Sweeney, Earle Gardner, Ray Keating
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Kingsif (talk) 21:14, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
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Emery ball, Russ Ford, Cy Falkenberg, Ed Sweeney, Earle Gardner, Ray Keating
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( Article history links: )
Russ Ford in 1911
... that Russ Ford (pictured) developed the emery ball, an illegal baseball pitch, taught it to Ed Sweeney and Earle Gardner, who taught it to Cy Falkenberg and Ray Keating, and Keating was caught using it?ALT1:... that Russ Ford (pictured) developed the emery ball, an illegal baseball pitch, taught it to Earle Gardner, who taught it to Cy Falkenberg, and Ed Sweeney, who taught it to Ray Keating, who was caught using it?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Charles Scribner's Sons Building (2 articles), Template:Did you know nominations/Les McKeown, Template:Did you know nominations/Emma Mullin, Template:Did you know nominations/Berliner Journal, Template:Did you know nominations/Damens Walker
- Comment: Six article hook. Emery ball is a brand new article, the others are 5x+ expansions. Open to any hook changes that improve flow. According to that character count page, ALT0 is 191 characters and ALT1 is 198 (doesn't count wiki markup, "pictured", or ellipses per the DYK rules).
Created/expanded by Muboshgu (talk). Self-nominated at 22:57, 27 April 2021 (UTC).
- @Muboshgu: I am reviewing this, but basically, both hooks are technically even shorter than you mention. For DYK only one of the bolded links needs to be counted. So ALT0 is only 137 characters and ALT1 is only 141 characters (even if you replace the other bold links with space characters). Epicgenius (talk) 21:05, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
All articles:
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
- Other problems:
- Since both ALT0 and ALT1 can be a little longer (excluding the multiple bolded links which don't count toward hook length), I wonder if you want to propose alternate hooks.
| Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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QPQ: 
- None of the six QPQ's has been performed yet.
Overall: 
All articles are new enough and long enough and are verified to be created/expanded. They are all sourced and neutral, as well as free of plagiarism. The hook is interesting, and it is cited in the Emery ball page. While the hook is not mentioned in full in any of the articles, it is almost fully mentioned in the Emery ball page, except for the fact that Sweeney taught it to Keating, which is in both their respective articles. The image is used in at least one of the bolded articles (Emery ball). Epicgenius (talk) 21:16, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
- Epicgenius, thanks for the reviews! I can add Sweeney teaching it to Keating in the emery ball page too. I didn't realize only one bolded link counts for characters in a multi hook. I haven't started the QPQs yet but I will ping you when I have done them. Got any more NYC buildings needing review? – Muboshgu (talk) 21:54, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Muboshgu: No problem, it was interesting to read these articles and the hook. As it turns out, I have exactly six nominations awaiting review (I used my review here for four of these nominations, so I'm not sure if that will work). But the other two nominations contain three articles, if you're interested. As for the bolded link, WP:DYKSG says
A hook introducing more than one article is an exception to the hook length rule: subtract from the overall count the bolded characters for each additional new article beyond the first. If the result is 200 or less, the hook length is probably acceptable.
So both ALT0 and ALT1 could be a little longer without going over the limit. Epicgenius (talk) 22:53, 29 April 2021 (UTC)- @Epicgenius:, I'll start with QPQs later today. I would love to make these hooks more interesting, but it can get tricky to make a run-on sentence catchy. Here's a couple of slight alterations:
- @Muboshgu: No problem, it was interesting to read these articles and the hook. As it turns out, I have exactly six nominations awaiting review (I used my review here for four of these nominations, so I'm not sure if that will work). But the other two nominations contain three articles, if you're interested. As for the bolded link, WP:DYKSG says
ALT0a ... that Russ Ford (pictured) developed the emery ball, taught it to Ed Sweeney and Earle Gardner, who taught it to Cy Falkenberg and Ray Keating, and Keating was caught using it, leading to the pitch being outlawed by Major League Baseball?- ALT1a:... that Russ Ford (pictured) developed the emery ball, taught it to Earle Gardner, who taught it to Cy Falkenberg, and Ed Sweeney, who taught it to Ray Keating, who was caught using it, leading to the pitch being outlawed by Major League Baseball?
– Muboshgu (talk) 17:19, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Muboshgu: Sounds good. For ALT1a, I would suggest reducing the usage of "taught", as it seems a little overused. ALT0a (168 characters) and ALT1a (176 characters) are both within the length limits. ALT0a currently seems the more appealing of the hooks to me, but it may be a little confusing since it may seem like either Sweeney or Gardner taught the emery ball both to Falkenberg and Keating. ALT1a makes more sense (Gardner taught to Falkenberg, Sweeney taught to Keating, and the pitch was outlawed after Keating was caught using it), but has a lot of commas and might overuse "taught". Epicgenius (talk) 17:29, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
- ALT0b ... that Russ Ford (pictured) developed the emery ball, taught it to Ed Sweeney and Earle Gardner, who conveyed the secret to Cy Falkenberg and Ray Keating, and Keating was caught using it, leading to the pitch being outlawed by Major League Baseball?
ALT1b:... that Russ Ford (pictured) developed the emery ball, taught it to Earle Gardner, who instructed Cy Falkenberg how to use it, and Ed Sweeney, who conveyed it to Ray Keating, who was caught using it, leading to the pitch being outlawed by Major League Baseball?
- @Epicgenius: all six QPQs are provided. Hooks 0b and 1b there for your perusal. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:45, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Muboshgu:
for ALT0b, but ALT1b may be a little too long. ALT0b is 189 characters, while ALT1b is 198-202 characters depending on whether you remove spaces after accounting for the removal of all the subsequent bold links. I would also have approved ALT1a, even though it repeats "taught", since that seemed interesting. Epicgenius (talk) 12:41, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Epicgenius: I unstruck 1a so you can approve that. I imagine that whoever promotes the hook can finagle the wording a little bit. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:29, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
- All right. I will then approve ALT0b, ALT1a. I agree, the promoter can probably figure out a better wording. Epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
- All right.
- @Muboshgu:
