Template:Did you know nominations/James Wood Bush

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 15:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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James Wood Bush[edit]

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ALT1: ... that James Wood Bush, a half-Hawaiian, was one of less than 200 native Hawaiians who fought in the American Civil War?
ALT2: ... that James Wood Bush was one of more than 100 Native Hawaiians who fought in the American Civil War while Hawaii was still an independent kingdom?
  • Reviewed: Zeng Dian
  • Comment: This was moved from my userpage on December 3.

Created by KAVEBEAR (talk). Self nominated at 05:27, 3 December 2014 (UTC).

  • - Unfortunately, This article (very well done as well) meets all DYK criteria except one Length, prose, citations, hook supported by multiple sources, image licenses, and NPOV. It's newness is the problem. The article was actually created in the mainspace on July 24, 2014 [1], moved (apparently uncontested) to the user space on August 5, 2014 [2] and then moved back to the mainspace on December 3, 2014 [3]. There's been no 5X expansion in the last 7 seven days.
@Mike Cline: Actually to clarify, you misread the history, the article was created on the userspace not the mainspace on July 24, it was moved to the mainspace on 22:59, August 4, 2014‎ and moved back to the userpace 22 minutes later on 23:21, August 4, 2014‎. It literally only existed on the mainspace for 21 minutes because of my indecisiveness of creating it or not back then before yesterday. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:13, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Comment: Although I have not passed this nomination, I would appreciate a second look on my assessment of the newness issue. thanks --Mike Cline (talk) 15:04, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Hmm. Yeah I see that. I considered creating it then and nominating it but I wanted to write another article to go alongside it as a dual nomination. I never got to that other article, and probably won't have anytime in the future to that. So I recreate this article. The question is if the move back and deletion of the redirect on August 5 constitute a deletion. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:09, 3 December 2014 (
Comment: I have no objection to the DYK nomination if no one else disagrees based on a prior 22 minute existence in the mainspace. But I don't think the move constituted a deletion. --Mike Cline (talk) 19:07, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
  • I honestly don't think the fact that it was in mainspace for 22 minutes is an issue. So new enough and also long enough. Meets core content policies. However, the hook isn't directly cited. The lead agrees with the hook fact, but the article says that many Hawaiians fought in the war, not just a small number of them. --Jakob (talk) 19:32, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
To deny this nom because of the stupid 22 minutes would be the epitome of rulebound mindlessness. EEng (talk) 20:11, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
I think it is just a different of perspective. About 100 is not very much considering that thousands and ten of thousands of soldiers fought in the continental states of the time. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:40, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Then "many" should be replaced with "about 100", assuming there's a source. --Jakob (talk) 19:42, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Multiple sources address this in various ways. There were native Hawaiian and then there were immigrants to Hawaii (mostly from Missionaries) that participated in the civil war. The number of native Hawaiians varies between 200 and 100 in different sources. Many more immigrants in Hawaii left the Islands to participate on both sides of the war. ALT1 tries to capture this. I'll let @KAVEBEAR adjust article text and sourcing as appropriate. --Mike Cline (talk) 21:14, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
"more than 100" is more appropriate. There is a recorded number of those identified I believe: 110 identified in 2010 and the most recent estimate is 119 [4]. The whole phrase "Hawai'i Sons of the Civil War" is tricky since it seems to put more weight on full or part native Hawaiians but in some of the sources it also mentions Samuel C. Armstrong and Nathaniel Bright Emerson as Hawai'i Sons of the Civil War. I propose the second hook which mentions the independent status of Hawaii at the time. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:06, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Seems good now, but what part of this this supports the first part of the hook (Bush being half-Hawaiian)? By the way, how does this sound: ALT3: ... that James Wood Bush, son of George Bush, fought in the American Civil War? --Jakob (talk) 23:23, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Yeah his brother was half-Hawaiian. But most importantly in term of sources, which I need to switch around, Andrew Jenson called him a "half-caste" which was the term for half-Hawaiian in the 19th century at least when referring to someone living in the islands. No, no one really knows who Captain George Henry Bush was. I still support ALT2. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:08, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Good to go then.
No, no one really knows who Captain George Henry Bush was. That's the point. People will think that George Bush refers to George W. Bush (certainly the most prominent person by the name of George Bush), causing them to be confused and leading them to click on the article. (Tricks like that are not entirely unheard of on DYK, even when it's not April 1.) --Jakob (talk) 00:17, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Tricking readers into learning something against their will is one of DYK's finest traditions. EEng (talk) 00:55, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Please clarify which hook is approved. If ALT3, then someone other than Jakob should approve it. Yoninah (talk) 12:58, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks. I struck through the other alts and am restoring the tick. ALT2 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 16:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
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