Template:Did you know nominations/Menander (gnostic)
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:21, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
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Menander (gnostic)[edit]
- ... that Menander succeeded Simon Magus as leader of the Simonians?
Created by Menandrian (talk). Self nominated at 23:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC).
This article is long enough and new enough, but I am not happy with the citations for the hook fact, and hence am not happy with the article. There are three citations on that sentence. All three of them do no more than state that Menander was a disciple, not the successor, of Simon Magus. The last of these [3] is an extremely bigoted first century source that can be considered neither reliable nor neutral, at least not without an assessment from a modern scholarly secondary source. Source [2] seems only to be saying that others identified Menandus as a disciple, not putting it forward as their own view. I may have overlooked something here, specific page numbers have not been given for any of them. Looking for a modern scholarly source that synthesises the ancient sources I came across this. Ferreiro says that Irenaeus (whom source [2] is quoting) "labeled Menander a 'successor'" (his scare quotes) because he thought establishing a parallel Gnostic succession would help in his efforts to legitimize a Christian apostolic succession. Ferreiro further says that Irenaeus "became the model for all future works in this genre". Which is basically saying that Irenaeus and his ilk are not to be trusted on this point, which would seem to include source [3]. Ferreiro speaking of original ancient sources "neither work specified directly that Simon Magus insired any sect other than his own."
- Nor is this the only problematic thing in this article. "Satornilus on the other hand invented the concept of Christ as the savior and Son of God" is a highly controversial statement to make, at least amongst Christians. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary sourcing. The source [6] does not even mention Satornilus. Assuming Saturninus is the same person, I still do not see verification of this sentence, but again it is difficult to tell with the lack of page numbers. SpinningSpark 20:25, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
- Comment The source for the hook that gives Ireneus' claim of Menander as Simon's successor is the second of the three, page 144, third paragraph, first sentence. [1] Menandrian (talk) 00:51, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
The above comment was the most recent Wikipedia edit by the nominator, and it does not address any of the other issues mentioned in the review. As there have been no substantive edits of the article since, and significant issues had been identified by the reviewer, I'm afraid we're going to have to close the nomination as unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:31, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
