Template:Did you know nominations/Patrick Zhuwao

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 10:19, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

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Patrick Zhuwao[edit]

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  • Reviewed: Manfred Jung
  • Comment: If anyone has a better idea for the hook, please be my guest. Jgefd (talk) 00:49, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Created by Jgefd (talk). Self-nominated at 00:49, 26 November 2017 (UTC).

  • Article is new enough, long enough, neutral, and well referenced. Main hook is verified with reliable inline sources (I've shortened it slightly to make it more concise). QPQ is done. No copyvio found. Good to go. -Zanhe (talk) 04:48, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Mentioning Robert Mugabe in the hook like this makes it look like it's Zhuwao's only claim to notability. But taking Mugabe's name out of either hook makes the hooks sound rather flat. Could you fashion a hook saying that Zhuwao, who did such and such, was the nephew of Mugabe? Or else say something more hooky about him than his travel plans? Yoninah (talk) 21:29, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
  • @Jgefd: thanks for the alt. But I still think it lays too much emphasis on "notability is not inherited". What do you think about something that relates to him personally, like:
  • ALT3: ... that former Zimbabwean minister Patrick Zhuwao holds two bachelor's degrees and four master's degrees from the same university? Yoninah (talk) 00:03, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Thanks for the third alt, it's good. I see your concern, but I think his relation to Robert Mugabe is one of the more interesting things about him - being a Mugabe is a big part of why he was fired from cabinet and exiled during the coup. And after all, plenty of DYKs include interesting facts that are not always the most notable aspects of that person/topic. Ultimately I don't mind too much either way so if we want to keep Mugabe out of it I think ALT3 would be great. Jgefd (talk) 01:53, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
  • @Jgefd: No, it would be good to mention the criticism of nepotism in the hook to connect the two, rather than just saying Zhuwao is Mugrabe's nephew. You could write something like:
  • ALT4: ... that charges of nepotism were voiced in 2007 when Patrick Zhuwao was appointed Zimbabwe Deputy Minister of Youth by his uncle, President Robert Mugabe?
  • It would also be appropriate to say why "being a Mugabe is a big part of why he was fired from the cabinet and exiled during the coup", but the article doesn't make this claim. Yoninah (talk) 20:54, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Respectfully, his relation to Mugabe is part of why he went into exile and is afraid to return to Zimbabwe - that's in the article. However, I like both ALT3 and 4 so if you want to go with one of those I would be perfectly happy. Jgefd (talk) 01:38, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • @Jgefd: the point here is not for me to be writing hooks for you, but for you to suggest hooks based on your knowledge of the subject. I'm just offering suggestions to spice things up for the main page. If you could write a hook about "his relation to Mugabe is part of why he went into exile and is afraid to return to Zimbabwe", that would work best. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 11:47, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: Hi, I already wrote two hooks and then another, two of which do not include his relation to Mugabe as the main hook -- his relation to Mugabe is not the only reason he is notable - he was also effected by the Zimbabwe coup, which of course involved Mugabe - but I don't see what the problem is with publishing a DYK that includes an interesting fact, even if it is not his main claim to fame. Respectfully, I never asked you to write any hooks - I personally think any of the first three I authored would work - but you seem to have a vendetta against including Mugabe's name if the hook isn't directly spelling out their relation as a cause of Zhuwao's political demise. I just don't think that's necessary. Jgefd (talk) 13:21, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • @Jgefd: that's not what I meant at all. I meant that the way you wrote in ALT0: "that Robert Mugabe's nephew Patrick Zhuwao was expelled ..." made it look like their relationship is Zhuwao's only claim to notability. I'm perfectly fine with running ALT0 or ALT1 without adding that he's Mugabe's nephew. Regarding my last post, I was trying to explain that if you wrote something based on their relationship, it would look like "... that Patrick Zhuwao was expelled during the 2017 coup because he was the nephew of Robert Mugabe.
  • I think this discussion has exceeded its productivity. I'm restoring the tick for ALT0 and ALT1 per Zanhe's review, excluding the relationship to Mugabe. I struck ALT2 per WP:NOTINHERITED. If the promoter wishes to use ALT3 or ALT4, which I wrote, a new reviewer is needed for those alts. Yoninah (talk) 17:16, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: I would prefer ALT0, Mugabe reference excluded as you wish. Peace and thanks. Jgefd (talk) 01:25, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
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