Template:Did you know nominations/Peter Orno

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BlueMoonset (talk) 04:51, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Peter Orno[edit]

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  • ... that Ohio State University is the home of the Numbers Garden (pictured) and of pseudonymous mathematician Peter Orno?

Created/expanded by Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk), Orlady (talk). Nominated by Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) at 10:09, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Comment: Although my name has been added to this nom as a cocreator, I respectfully submit that there is no citation support for the proposed hook fact (which I also find to be uninteresting, mainly because it's confusing). Accordingly, I have marked it with a red X, and I have inserted a little bit of the content from the long discussion at Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Did You Know#Peter Orno below:
Reply I added an in-line citation for the fact that Ohio State University has the Garden of Constants.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:44, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
[Beginning of content copied from April Fool's page]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I suggest the following revised hook:
  • ALT3: ... that Peter Orno, author of several published papers in mathematics, is a pseudonym that was inspired by "pornography"?

--Orlady (talk) 22:39, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Get rid of "apparently" and I like it. It doesn't matter if Peter Orno is a pseudonym of several people, if he is the published name, then it does not need "apparently" in there....---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 00:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Get rid of the apparently and it ceases to have any claim to truth, because there is no one person known by that name, and that does matter. However, it appears that there is. Kevin McE (talk) 07:01, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Being female, I am not amused by (or even interested in) the shorthand "P.Orno" -- and I predict that it would be edited in good faith to become "P. Orno". If that's the hook, it doesn't deserve to be on the April Fool's page, because it's no better than a run-of-the-mill DYK hook. --Orlady (talk) 05:06, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
An improved version of the original hook remains the best:
  • ... that Ohio State University's mathematical author Peter Orno (abbreviated "P. ORNO") is a pseudonym inspired by erotic publications?
The phrase "the mathematician" was watered down to "the mathematical author"....  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:49, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Yuck. I have never heard the term "mathematical author" before this. If you asked me what "Ohio State University's mathematical author" referred to, I'd probably guess that it was some sort of computerized system developed at Ohio State. --Orlady (talk) 19:41, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Illogical language: an author cannot be a pseudonym. An author can use a pseudonym. Kevin McE (talk) 20:08, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
I intended a literary-theory meaning of "author". (C.f., the "principle of charity" of Donald Davidson.) While logical, my sentence should be written for a wider public than I had assumed.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:38, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about. For starters you confuse author and writer. Did you bother to consult a good dictionary. The word "author" begins with letter "A".  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:43, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Literary theory has little relevance to the publication of papers in science and mathematics. In a literary context, authors are people who write for a living. In contrast, the scientists and mathematicians who submit papers to journals are "authors" of those papers, but fundamentally they are scientists and mathematicians who are reporting on their work. They are not "authors" by profession. --Orlady (talk) 21:18, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Foucault and Roland Barthes have as much to do with literature and logic as Charles Manson does with supererogatory charity; it is a pity that the current article credits only them with the discussion of the author, which began when a person first realized that others use the first-person pronoun.
The rhetorical and semiotic analysis of mathematical and scientific papers has been endorsed by Charles Sanders Peirce, who wrote volumes of genius and, therefore, his thoughts are worth considering.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:06, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Let me say more bluntly, given that you and Kevin wasted a lot of time with idiotic objections, his moronic, that you should consult a dictionary. "Author" is found under "A", and you will find that it has multiple meanings.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:36, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I personally think the agreed-upon hooks are more for regular DYK. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:12, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the quick reply.
    • If an administrator has time, perhaps he or she could use this for April Fools (as submitted and approved last April) and move a non-April Fools hook for the 2nd?
    • Thanks,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:58, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
[End of content copied from April Fool's page]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • I still like ALT3. --Orlady (talk) 18:13, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  • However, in view of the contention over whether or not an "author" can be a "pseudonym", I'll revise it as follows:
  • ALT6 ... that Peter Orno, credited as the author of several published papers in mathematics, is a pseudonym that was inspired by "pornography"? --Orlady (talk) 19:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Alt6 needs copy editing. I have explained these distinctions earlier to Orlady and Kevin; perhaps another editor can succeed where I have failed:
  • The name "Peter Orno" (written with quotation marks) is a pseudonym.
  • Peter Orno is an author, according to Mathematical Reviews; every author is credited with having written a piece of writing, of course, so this hook is redundant.
By Orlady's original research, Professor Gerald Edgar at Ohio State has published papers as Peter Orno. Otherwise, Orlady's contributions to the article were honored as listing her as a second author of the article, not as second author of the hook. Orlady's attention is drawn to her citation as second author of the article after the words "expander, ...", which refers to the article and not the hook.
Seizing the teachable moment, I note that Orlady is an author of the Wikipedia article Peter Orno and that "Orlady" and "Peter Orno" are pseudonyms.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:19, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Charming of you, Kiefer. --Orlady (talk) 14:24, 12 April 2012 (UTC
  • What? I don't even...can we have a fresh pair of eyes on this? Who can understand what was just said? My brain appears to have melted out of my ears. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 17:11, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • April Fools or something... Point is, there is a hook in there somewhere. I'm suggesting ALT7 below, best of the above. That he was 'inspired by "pornography"' sounds like something else altogether. Just look at the ALTs and ignore everything else. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 06:27, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Also I'm striking out the image as it isn't relevant. Apparently this was a hook proposed for April Fools 2011, saved for 2012, and somehow missed the mark. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 19:07, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
  • No one seems to assess this (this year), article is big enough and referenced. However I cannot see that it is new enough. It was written over a year ago, and been at its current size for a year. Since it missed its chance before I suppose it can get one now. ALT7 hook looks OK. People can see what it read like without it being made explicit. Good to go without image. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:14, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
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