Template:Did you know nominations/Tochter Zion, freue dich

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:32, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

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Tochter Zion, freue dich

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"Tochter Zion" in a print from St. Louis
"Tochter Zion" in a print from St. Louis

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 12:40, 8 December 2019 (UTC).

  • Taking source on good faith, because I trust Gerda's judgement a little more than google books' auto translate so what would be the point. Besides that, article is good. I don't quite understand the hook, though, is there something else you can propose @Gerda Arendt:, and we can maybe force this into a space on the 23rd? Kingsif (talk) 00:46, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
Kingsif, thank you for seasonal greetings (on my talk) and for reviewing this, and many others!! Only, I have no time these days. Advent will be over tomorrow, so no rush. - I could propose something else, but this is it, a recommandation to conductors to not do it slowly but like a bright triumphal march ;) - We have no other song about which could be said that it is the music that Handel liked so much that he used in 2 (!) oratorios. Sorry, I won't have time now for looking at the other other reviews: with company, and singing 3 times on the 3 days we celebrate Christmas, + an extra rehearsal for the live broadcast. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:29, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
That's fine! I could understand from reading the article, but I don't think the hook makes it clear that Ranke put words over Handel's music, and Handel had used that music twice, and the description at the end more confuses what the hook of the hook is supposed to be. Whenever's good for you, enjoy the holiday season, nice pictures :) Kingsif (talk) 13:36, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
Could you rephrase the hook, perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:48, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
I could, but I'd have to put it back up for review? Kingsif (talk) 22:58, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
Not if you just rephrase the checked facts, - only if you'd introduce something new with other references. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:51, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
While I think per the hook being part of the criteria does mean each phrasing needs independent review, I hope I can ping Yoninah to get that of my proposed Alt1?
Kingsif (talk) 00:18, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
I like that, thank you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:40, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

echo 'that the popular German Advent song "Tochter Zion, freue dich" (pictured) was written by Friedrich Heinrich Ranke, over music by Handel that he had used in two oratorios to describe the entry of a victor?' | wc

This gives "1 35 205"; the last number is the character count (1 line, 35 words). Minor quibble, but I think a more conventional English phrasing would be ALT1a; "writing" a song means writing both the text and the music, and words are set to music, or the music has a new text written for it. That/which is irrelevant in British usage, and has grammatical meaning in American usage; this is a nonrestrictive clause, so "which". The referent "he" is also a bit confusing.
ATL1b, 2, and 3 are my attempts to shorten and clarify. ALT4 jams in a bit more cultural context. This tune is nice not least because a choir can sing it cold and it will sound decent, and when they are done they will be warmed up. HLHJ (talk) 16:55, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Kingsif? We are allowed a bit of latitude on the character limit. HLHJ (talk) 00:23, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

I think any of the alts introducing the "Entry into Jerusalem" part will need another source review, since I didn't look for that in the original. Just found Parent & Stalmann in the article, taking on good faith for complex German on book autotranslate again, but looks fine. As far as I know, the "(pictured)" doesn't count towards the character limit, so it's irrelevant in 4a. Any of HLHJ's alts work fine for me. Kingsif (talk) 00:29, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, I didn't know that; knock 10 off each character count (we could even add "popular" back in). I can read the German text; I vouch for the fact that it mentions David's son riding into Jerusalem on a donkey. Gerda Arendt, when you have time after the holidays, do you have preferences? HLHJ (talk) 04:15, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
  • In the caption, "St. Louis" needs clarification. I assume this means the American city, but that might not be apparent to other readers, particularly because the publication is in German. Maybe "...from an 1898 St. Louis (U.S.) hymnal".Jmar67 (talk) 13:06, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
  • To be fair, it is unlikely that the image will be used if the number of bio noms stays up. Kingsif (talk) 23:31, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
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