Template:Did you know nominations/William Chambliss

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:45, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

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William Chambliss[edit]

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  • ... that research by sociologist William Chambliss showed that conflict between social classes is the most fundamental social process in capitalist societies?

Created/expanded by Everymorning (talk). Self-nominated at 15:27, 29 April 2016 (UTC).

  • What an interesting article. The sourcing is good, the hook is interesting, no copyvio or other scandals, long and new enough, no image. CUE IT UP! LavaBaron (talk) 06:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
  • An issue is that the article does not state that the conflict is the "most" fundamental social process. It only says that "... conflict between different social classes is a fundamental force in capitalist societies." North America1000 08:43, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
  • I have replaced "a" with "the" per the above recommendation. Everymorning (talk) 13:01, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
  • The "most" part is still in the hook, but the article still does not state this. I recommend the alt below. North America1000 13:07, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
  • ALT1: ... that research by sociologist William Chambliss showed that conflict between social classes is the fundamental social process in capitalist societies?
  • To simplify matters for a promoter, I struck the initial hook. AGF about book source I'm unable to access. However, now the article does not include the phrase "social process" as it did when I composed ALT1. Now the article states, "that conflict between different social classes is the fundamental force in capitalist societies." So, here's an alt below. North America1000 20:44, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
  • ALT2: ... that sociologist William Chambliss concluded that conflict between social classes is the fundamental force in capitalist societies?
  • ALT2 looks good to me, though of course an uninvolved reviewer like LavaBaron should provide input on this for it to be approved. Everymorning (talk) 21:38, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Review for ALT2 needed. I struck ALT1 per all of the above. North America1000 22:36, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
  • ALT 2 appears to be supported by the in-line source. I was able to use Google books search in the source to find discussion of social class and conflict, and discussion of Chambliss researching government-funded pirates, so I believe it's reasonable to believe that it discusses both Chambliss and his general social conflict research.Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 21:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
  • There are a few problems with this nomination. (1) The hook is not a fact but an opinion and thus the word "showed" is too strong - I am very sceptical that one sociologist showed definitively that class conflict is the fundamental force in capitalist societies; (2) the opinion in question is extremely politically volatile and has been argued by a far more well-known sociologist; (3) if we are being pedantic here, there is no distinction between "the most fundamental" and "the fundamental" - as "the fundamental" is binary, the former is simply incorrect (in the same way that "most unique" is meaningless) - and there is a huge distinction between "a fundamental" and "the fundamental". I recommend revising the hook to clarify that this was the thesis of Dr Chambliss rather than a fact which is now universally accepted. Intelligentsium 22:15, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
  • I have changed ALT2 to say "concluded" instead of "showed". The rest of the hook can be verified in the cited source (here). E.g. the book I just linked to says Chambliss "demonstrated that conflict between social classes is the basic social process in a capitalist society..." (page 141) Everymorning (talk) 22:26, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
  • As Christopher Hitchens once said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Unfortunately I do not believe the cited source (a relatively obscure tertiary source) meets the extraordinary evidence threshold required to assert what may be the most contentious opinion of the 20th Century as a fact :) I believe this hook can be approved if "research by" is also deleted - "research by ... concluded" still suggests the conclusion was definitive. I don't have access to that book but am willing to AGF. Please also clarify this in the article. Intelligentsium 22:35, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
I have removed "research by" as requested, and reworded the article to match, is ALT 2 good to go now? Everymorning (talk) 22:57, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
  • No further problems as far as I can see. ALT2 (revised) date, hook, length verified. Intelligentsium 00:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
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