Template:Did you know nominations/Zsolt Gárdonyi

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:09, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Zsolt Gárdonyi[edit]

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... that Zsolt Gárdonyi, not his father Zoltán Gárdonyi, composed Mozart Changes for organ?

Reviewed: Tadeusz Rejtan
Comment: The article was started by Henryk2011, a new editor. I helped formatting, referencing and expanding.

Created/expanded by Henryk2011 (talk), Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 23:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I suggest merging in (and dropping) the nomination for Zoltán Gárdonyi. Two entries, father and son, within a week is a bit much. I would merge to this one. The picture is ok but nothing special. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I had thought about that,

ALT1:~~... that Zsolt Gárdonyi, not his father Zoltán Gárdonyi, composed Mozart Changes for organ?~~

but tried to give the attention he deserves to the father. Just look at that one's worklist. The above would only say about him what he did not. - Someone created 6 composers in 2 days, all notable. I would have preferred to space them out in time, but there are the DYK rules. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Also: concerning the pic of the Liszt academy, we celebrate a Liszt year (born 1811), and he founded that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

My thinking is that, where possible, DYK should present as diverse a range of articles as possible in the hope that at least one is of interest to the reader. If anyone clicks on either bolded link in ALT1 they are likely to click through to the other, so I prefer to merge. As for the picture, the thumbnail does not look very interesting to me - I am not tempted to click to see a larger view. But I don't feel strongly on this, so will defer to another editor. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:29, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

The father is in prep, strike ALT1, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I was just about to say that Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:48, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Comment: I understand the interest in using that photo, but I also feel it's not a great main page photo. I meant to say that on the father's DYK, but forgot. Marrante (talk) 18:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

All is fine with the article (length, vintage, copyvio), and the hook is referenced, but the hook doesn't do it for me. It says in the article that Zsolt composed Mozart Changes and by implication, it wasn't composed by his father. But what is the significance of that? Do people commonly assume that it was composed by his father? If that's the case, it should be explained. I'm not set on this, so if you can explain the hook to me (and work that into the article), maybe it will work. That said, reading the reference, I came across the following: "Das Stück hat binnen weniger Jahre einen Siegeszug durch die Konzertprogramme der Welt angetreten, und es ist bei den meisten Organisten unter den Erstnennungen, wenn man sie nach Orgel-Jazz befragt." That fact could be worked into the article and could form the basis of a better / more interesting hook. Schwede 66 20:31, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

The hook is meant to prevent that people think the two are the same. - Eventually I might create an article on Mozart Changes, then I would come up with a hook as you suggest. But at the moment I don't have any time left, sorry. Mozart Changes is known by many without explanation, and may be interesting enough a title to make the others look, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

So could it be worked into the article that people sometimes confuse father and son? Schwede 66 21:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it needs mentioning, it's so obvious just looking at their names. We could say "That Zs, the son of Z," but isn't that almost the same, but more boring? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

How about ALT2: ~~... that Zsolt Gárdonyi's short organ piece Mozart Changesis based on the theme of the finale of Mozarts's last piano sonata in D major, K. 572, but incorporates elements of jazz?~~

Sorry, no, it begins like pure Mozart, gradually (!) develops to pure jazz, and back and fourth, - all this is about the piece which will have an article eventually, s.a., thanks for the wording for then (but should be "a theme", the sonata has many in it's different movements, and we don't need the key and Köchel number in a hook on this composer)! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:15, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Your explanation does it for me, Gerda. I have placed a distinguish template at the top of the two articles, and in my opinion, that will do the trick. The original hook is approved (I've struck out ALT2 for clarity). Schwede 66 20:18, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Returned from prep to space it from the father's article and work out another hook, per WT:DYK. Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:37, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

copied discusion from there:

Once we know that Zsolt Gárdonyi composed Mozart Changes, we know that no-one else composed it. That list of "no-one else"s includes his father, but also includes all other composers, living and dead, and indeed, everybody else one can think of, including Alexander of Macedonia and my local newsagent. While I understand the wish to distinguish between Zsolt and Zoltán as composers, it is probable that a tiny minority of main page readers are familiar with either of them, and so such confusion is not a major risk. Following one's father's profession is not remarkable in and of itself (both of my examples of "no-one else"s did likewise). If a link is to be drawn between the work of the Gárdonyis, pere et fils, then the relevant work to focus on is not one which the father had no more (verifiably) to do with than Alexander (who is more likely to be an ancestor of Gárdonyi than is my newsagent). Propose "... that Zsolt Gárdonyi, composer of Mozart Changes, edited his father's Three Motets?" Kevin McE (talk) 08:44, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

It is a bit hookier, I think. I will support and use your suggestion, although I think Gerda was planning on playing off the similar constructions of their names. Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:54, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

How about "plays his father's organ works in concert", showing that he is a concert organist, rather than editing, + "Three Motets" is a rather insignificant title? end of copy --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:06, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that concert organist Zsolt Gárdonyi played his father's Partita "Veni Creator Spiritus" along with his own jazzy Mozart Changes at the Marktkirche? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 12 September 2011 (UTC)