Template talk:Lang-de

Why is this template deprecated?

The suggested replacement is so long that I don't think anyone is going to use it and people will use just "German: soundso" instead, requiring the link to be disambiguated and without the nifty CSS classes that {{lang}} adds. Is there at least a redirect to {{LangWithName}} or whatever its name is that can be used instead? Kusma (討論) 20:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. In addition to {{LangWithName}} being too long, it doesn't currently appear to italicise the entered text. —  AjaxSmack  02:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki

{{editprotected}}
Please add mk:Шаблон:Lang-de interwiki. Thanks. --iNkubusse^? 01:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Y Done - Nihiltres^{t.l} 02:47, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

delinking option

{{editprotected}} I could make the edits myself, but I don't want to inadvertently break anything as I don't work much with templates. To at least allow editors to turn off links and avoid overlinking

|links={{{links|yes}}}

See Template_talk:Language_with_name#Delinking for more information. older ≠ wiser 13:34, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

That looks fine.  Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

cy interwiki

{{editprotected}} Please add cy:Nodyn:Iaith-de. Thanks. -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 00:35, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

 Added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:44, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Interwikis: where

I found
<includeonly> <!-- CATEGORIES AND INTERWIKIS HERE, THANKS --> NEW: [[de:Vorlage:DeS]] </includeonly>
on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Lang-de/doc and not here. But I don't know the technical details of templates.

and /.de

Please add [[de:Vorlage:DeS]].

• DeS means “Deutsche Sprache” --Schwab7000 (talk) 16:33, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

de:Vorlage:DeS

Interwiki links to /doc

The protected code of Template:Lang-de contains 1 category and 5 interwiki links. I think these ought to be placed at the bottom of Template:Lang-de/doc. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:59, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, especially as there are some there already, so Done. --Redrose64 (talk)

Italics

This template automatically italicizes the foreign text. In most English sources italics are not used for place names, theatre names, etc, even when these are given in the original language. There should be a parameter that can be used to turn the italics off. --Robert.Allen (talk) 21:56, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

The origin of this practice is probably Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Foreign terms (or MOS:Ety). It can already be turned off by using the template {{Noitalic}}: "{{Lang-de|{{Noitalic|Bayerische Staatsoper}}|links=no}}" gives "German: Bayerische Staatsoper". Alternatively, the core template {{Language with name}} could be called instead: "{{Language with name|de|German|Bayerische Staatsoper|links=no}}" gives the same:"German: Bayerische Staatsoper". But I agree that a proper parameter, e.g. |noitalic=, would be preferrable. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:03, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Alternatively, we could add just this information to the documentation here. That might be easier, at least it would be for me, I think. Update: It looks like both these methods turn off the language link. Is that right? It might be nice to keep it as the default option. --Robert.Allen (talk) 07:35, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

The language link got turned off by my use of |links=no, my preferred use. I see no need for such a link in "German: Bayerische Staatsoper" and consider it as WP:OVERLINK; others may see it differently. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:19, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

These days I think you are right, it would probably be considered overlinking by many editors. One might be tempted to make the default state "link=no", but I would be very hesitant to make that change without more input from other editors. When I removed the template from Bavarian State Opera, I see I retained the language link, so obviously this did not occur to me. (Overlinking is not an issue I usually worry about very much. If it's going to be a color, blue is still my favorite on the Wikipedia.) I notice that Template:Lang says templates like "{{lang-de|Bavarian State Opera}}", giving "German: Bavarian State Opera" is intended to be used the first time that language is used in the article. All this seems a bit like overkill to me. My computer's (Apple OS 10.8) screen reader ignores the language tags and mispronounces the terms in any case. But perhaps advanced screen readers take advantage of them. BTW, thanks for adding the info about Template:Noitalics to the documentation. Update: And thanks for all the other help. I'm going to try to use these templates a bit more often. --Robert.Allen (talk) 02:35, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

template:lang-de-AT

I think we need a merger, or an addition of Austrian German in this template. How do you add "de-AT" into this template? --George Ho (talk) 18:12, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 18:27, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Where besides WP:TFD? --George Ho (talk) 18:30, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

People agreeing on this talk page would be enough, or at least not disagreeing after a suitable length of time has been left for discussion. You might want to notify any WikiProjects whose editors might be interested as well. And you should have the code working in Template:Lang-de/sandbox, as there are several possible ways the two templates could be merged; it's not immediately obvious what needs to be done. If you need help with the coding, perhaps ask at WP:VPT? Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 19:08, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

It's not clear to why such a merge is needed and how it would affect the use of the template. Are there any other Lang-x templates which use regional variants? I notice that several Lang-en-XX templates are at TfD (Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 August 13), which raises the question why a template for Austrian is needed at all (it has currently 1 transclusion). As George Ho points out at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 132#Template:lang-de/sandbox, that template does indeed seem like a "useless waste of space". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:11, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

We can create "{{de}}" as similar to {{zh}}. Well, "de" was deleted per TFD, and I don't know what it was before. --George Ho (talk) 04:41, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

We should not create {{de}} and {{zh}} should be renamed. Most two letter coded language templates used to be language icons. Using them in this manner will make a mess. {{fr}} / {{fr icon}} -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

What are your proposed names for "zh"? --George Ho (talk) 19:29, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

I would suggest templates that are similar to the current "zh" be called "xy term", in this instance {{zh term}}, since it lists various renderings of a term. (and similar templates can be renamed, or made (such as for Serbian (which has two scripts, one Latin-based), Korean (which has two scripts + romanizations), Dungan (which has three scripts + romanizations), etc ) -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 01:16, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

{{Lang}} and the {{Lang-xx}} templates do this just fine; we simply do not need a new set of redundant language markup templates for ever language like {{zh term}}, etc.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  03:14, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

{{zh}} is not a {{lang}} template, {{lang-zh}} is the {{lang}} template for "zh" ; {{zh}} uses module:zh. And they're not redundant, since the current {{zh}} is about a language with multiple scripts, clearly not the case with most language. Though the romanization issue does carry over, and {{lang}} should be adjusted to add romanization (and possibly a gloss term parameter). -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Update: I used the sandbox, and managed to add variety. However, it probably still needs a little work. I could add Standard German, Swiss German, and other examples of German varieties. --George Ho (talk) 19:29, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Oppose merge: George Ho has been TfDing various {{lang|xx|YY}} templates with unclear rationales, and is making a case at WT:NOT against templates generally as some form of "technocracy". This is WP:POINTy nonsense. There's no real problem with adding |variety= to such templates so that more specific templates are not mandatory to get the job done, but the ability to use a more complicated syntax of this template is not a deletion/merge rationale for simpler use of more specific templates. This is a "six of one, half-dozen of the other" matter, and a "solution" to a non-existent problem.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:30, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Clarification: There isn't anything "wrong" with {{lang-xx}} templates supporting a |variety= parameter (other than "variety" is a Wikipedianism and not a linguistic term); I support the idea, if it's done very carefully, with a switch test. Even if it's done right, it's still not a rationale for deleting templates than anyone familiar with language codes will expect to exist. If we don't care about the parser overhead, the {{lang-xx-YY}} versions can be replaced with calls to {{lang-xx|variety=YY}}, but only after the {{lang-xx}} has been set up to support |variety= and is doing so correctly for any plausible variety. This is a self-correcting issue with separate templates for varieties, because they'll redlink if they don't exist; by contrast, using {{lang-en}} will produce a seamless template result but no useful metadata. The main reason we have these separate templates is to force the generation of valid metadata, because what comes out of the template has to be valid language code; we cannot trust editors to input whatever they think a code is or should be into such a template, because they will frequently guess wrong. Note also that {{lang-en}} is essentially a shell, a placeholder for technical reasons, so this proposition won't work at all for migrating {{lang-en-GB}}, etc., to {{lang-en}}; the latter does not use {{Language with name}}, so it does not generate any language metadata at all (on en.wiki). Those must therefore remain separate templates, or {{lang-en}} has to get very complicated, to use completely different code depending on whether it has a |variety= specified or not, which defeats the purpose of all this "let's simply thing" stuff. Which really hasn't been simplifying anything but causing mess and heat.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  03:14, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Strong oppose merge - Linguistically a nightmare. Language hierarchies are impossible to reliably establish and are constantly in flux. The moment one changes and has to move templates all pages that used it would need to be updated. Then there's cultural issues, some may get upset by having their language "downgraded" to a variant - then there's things like "Swiss German" - is it Swiss or German or under the macrolanguage? Bad idea to merge like that. JMJimmy (talk) 14:01, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

See also

FYI

 – Pointer to relevant discussions elsewhere

George Ho has been raising related issues in a number of different forums. Participants here may wish to synch their input at these other related threads (most of which deal with {{lang-xx-YY}} templates in particular, while the one at WT:NOT is more general):

• Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 August 13#Template:Lang-en-GB and four other TfDs on the same page
• Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#"Wikipedia is not a technocracy"?
• Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Using "lang-x" template or simple wikilinking and formatting
• Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 132#Template:lang-de/sandbox

 — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:31, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Documenting the lit parameter

I edited Template:Lang-de/doc to include the 'lit' parameter but this is not showing up in the transclusion in Template:Lang-de. I'm guessing it needs an admin edit because of <noinclude>, if so perhaps someone could do that. Thanks Mcewan (talk) 13:14, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

I just noticed that in Template:Lang-fr {{documentation|Template:Lang-x/doc}} is used to transclude generic documentation (with, ironically, a German example of the 'lit' parameter). Perhaps that would be a better approach here (and other templates based on Lang-x)? Mcewan (talk) 13:26, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Already done Your edit went through. When editing a documentation subpage, you often have to purge the template page itself to reflect the changes (which is why the documentation often has a "purge" link). Primefac (talk) 17:06, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Ah, thanks, and I see the "Purge" link. Sorry to waste your time. Mcewan (talk) 22:15, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Restoring italics

Please note that this edit violates MOS:Ety: "Wikipedia prefers italics for phrases in other languages and for isolated foreign words that do not yet have everyday use in non-specialized English." See also, e.g., Template:Lang-fr. Please revert it. --Omnipaedista (talk) 18:21, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

"prefers" is right. There are many words and phrases that need to be marked with this template for its general benefits, but which don't have to be in italics. That should be decided by editors case-by-case. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:48, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Please restore the italics (if italics are preferred by MOS:Ety, then italics should be the default). Removing the italics has created inconsistent formatting in the ledes of many articles (e.g., Fusine in Valromana, Malborghetto Valbruna, etc.). Doremo (talk) 09:48, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Those examples (Bela Peč, Naborjet-Ovčja) are good illustrations why the family of Lang-foo templates should not italicise by default. There is no benefit in using italics for place names, or, as mentioned above, institutions. MOS:FOREIGNITALIC (MOS:Ety) recommends italics for foreign words and phrases; it excludes explicitly proper names. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:52, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

That appears to be a misreading of MOS:FOREIGNITALIC; "A proper name is usually not italicized when it is used, but it may be italicized when the name itself is being referred to". In the lede the foreign proper name itself is being referred to as a foreign lexeme, and does not function as an element in running text. Doremo (talk) 11:09, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

I fully support the unconditional and urgent reapplication of the italics, since each other language does so, it is the standard (of the base template:lang) – and the eventual inconsitency makes no sense at all. There were already happening some idiotic consequences: See the hundreds of recent changes by User:Doremo, see also: User talk:Doremo#italics.3F.3F!!! -- ZH8000 (talk) 19:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Restore italics to comply with MOS:FOREIGNITALIC and because the default is a foreign word, not a loanword. Bermicourt (talk) 19:53, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Agree. Restore the italics. They should be the default. Widely used templates like this should not be changed like that. Srnec (talk) 23:53, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

error: italic

Seems there's an error when invoking lang-de. See Wandering Jew#In Literature. The section reads in red: error: {{lang}}: text has italic markup.

But trying with hello world, there's nothing wrong:

Trying here: hello world

Not sure what the problem is. Seems to me that here it shouldn't be lang_xx_italic but rather lang_de_italic. Am I correct? פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 04:17, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

The problem was that inside the text there was a [sic]. I removed that and alls ok.

Bad: {{lang|de|Eins {{sic}} Zwei}}

Bad result: [Eins [sic] Zwei] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help)

Good: {{lang|de|Eins Zwei}}

Good result: Eins Zwei

פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 07:12, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Edit request: Categorisation

Looks like this needs Category:Germanic multilingual support templates adding to the page, within the noinclude section, please — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk; please {{ping}} me in replies) 09:41, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: well you see my friend OwenBlacker, when a template has a /doc page, categories are added to the bottom of that page within includeonly tags. So if you'll check it, Category:Germanic multilingual support templates is already there. And just fyi for the future, template documentation pages are usually unprotected and you can effortlessly add categories and other needed info as you deem necessary. Just look for the "edit" link at the top of the green "Template documentation" box to edit the documentation subpage. Best to you! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 11:27, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: Aha, most of the other {{lang-xx}} templates redirect to a common /doc page; I hadn't spotted that this one did not do so. (It was from {{lang-fr}} having the Italic equivalent category that I noticed {{lang-de}} was missing it. (Having been here a good while now, I was already aware of the /doc, process, obviously.) — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk; please {{ping}} me in replies) 11:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

To editor OwenBlacker: no problemo, there are plenty of editors who've been here awhile who've never gotten around to templates and their /docs. Apologies for treating you like a template /doc newbie. Stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 11:58, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

To editor Paine Ellsworth: Hah, fair point. No problem. You too! — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk; please {{ping}} me in replies) 12:00, 25 October 2022 (UTC)