User talk:Beravu

I Hate Running Backwards

Hi Beravu, a few clarifications regarding our interactions on I Hate Running Backwards:

All non-trivial information on Wikipedia has to come from some form of reliable source (WP:V, WP:RS). When I wrote the article, I found only one (Jutarnji list) that outlines the roles of the team members. Among those, it does not credit Mihaldinec as a programmer, but as the community manager. A presskit on IndieDB, even though we would not count it as a reliable source, alludes to the same. I shopped around for more sources just now but found nothing that supports the claim of Mihaldinec programming the game; not even the fan-written credits list on the IHRB Wiki say so. For smaller indie games, it is always possible that information may be missing—that is unfortunate but not uncommon—yet Wikipedia cannot solve this with unsubstantiated statements.

As for the cover art, our guidelines for infobox images (at WP:VGBOX) state that "The identifying art should be from the game's original release." In this case, we use the art from the launch version, not the updated one made several months later. (In the same vein, we refer to the developer by its contemporary name, Binx Interactive, instead of the current one, Binx Games.) Additionally, the older cover was already available under a free-use license, which is always preferred over fair-use ones. I noticed that when you uploaded the new file, commons:File:IHRB MasterArt 1024 x 1024.png, you also tagged it as being published under a free license (CC BY-SA 4.0). If I interpret your username correctly, you are Bernard Bachrach and thus could be able to decide licensing of company-owned media. However, if this was a mistake, you might want to have the file deleted again.

Lastly, I would like to point out that, if you are indeed Bachrach, it would be good to read up on Wikipedia's rules on editing under a conflict of interest (WP:COI). My usual recommendation: If you wish for changes on articles you are related to, discuss them first with an uninvolved editor (myself, the Video games WikiProject, or anyone) and have them implement those changes.

Regards, IceWelder [✉] 12:04, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi IceWelder,

Sorry for any misunderstading that might come up from my attempts to change the article. Regarding my identity, I am indeed Bernard Bachrach, one of the founders of Binx Interactive, now Binx Games, as well as the artist on the I Hate Running Backwards game. I have to admit that I have never edited or added to Wikipedia articles so please understand the lack of knowledge in regards to requirements from my side :)

Regarding Luka, it is true that he was brought on to do work part-time as community manager, and part-time as programmer. However, since he left before the game even got published, we added him to a different section, and not to the Binx Interactive team section. In our credits, we haven't listed the specific roles of the team members, as we didn't want to have the same names repeated over again for different roles, as at that time we all fulfilled more than one role on the project. Myself for example doing all of the 2D art, user interface and icons, logo design and animations, enemy intro animations (some of those were done by Filip Kovac as well), as well as all of the key and cover art including the promo art for various events like Pax East 2018, Gamescom 2017, Reboot Develop, Reboot Infogamer, etc. Other members of the team also had different roles with Denis Mraovic not only programming and being the co-CEO, but also acting as a producer on the project, etc.

Now that you have clarified this to me, is there a way to change that information permanently on the Wikipedia page without a news article published? I realise that the only information in a news article is from Jutarnji list way back in 2018, but please understand that the information is not completely correct or some information is missing. The artwork that I did for I Hate Running Backwards can be seen on my ArtStation page with more content coming soon to be added there. Beravu (talk) 12:32, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia is never used to publish new information and it only compiles data from existing (reliable) sources. If these sources are incomplete, Wikipedia will also be incomplete. Secondary sources, such as that news article, are usually preferred, but it is also possible to use primary sources (like press releases) in small amounts. For example, the Binx Games website could publish presskits for its older games that feature all correct roles, and then the Wikipedia article could cite the IHRB presskit for that information. When Be-Rad Entertainment did this independently in 2021, I was finally able to fix the artist credit for Serious Sam: Kamikaze Attack!; I knew for years that it was true but never had a proper source to back it up. IceWelder [✉] 13:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Hey Ice,

just reworked the presskit on IndieDB. I left Luka as a community manager, as that was his primary role on this specific project, the rest will also be added. Is that OK? Beravu (talk) 14:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Mod DB and, consequently, Indie DB have historically not been accepted as reliable sources but a large part of the site is edited by users. I am running this question by the project to get some insight. Ideally, of course, the presskit would be hosted somewhere more official like the developer's website. If this matter is not urgent, we can wait for responses on the Indie DB matter. IceWelder [✉] 16:09, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

It is not that urgent, at least for now. Just wanted to add the missing information. Will be adding it to the site as well (the presskit form that you suggested) :) Beravu (talk) 19:56, 18 January 2024 (UTC)