User talk:Cinshif

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Jesus Christ[edit]

Lets take a quick look at the Gospel of John :

" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word became flesh" - John 1:1 & 1:13

You are correct in your belief that Jesus Christ came to show us the true path to God. John, one of the accepted Gospels of mainstream Christianity says so himself that Jesus Christ was "the word" - knowledge, if you will.

But, does that mean that Christ only came to deliver knowledge? My rhetorical question is: Jesus came to show us the path to the Father - "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one doth come unto the Father, if not through me;" - John 14:6 - but does that mean that Jesus did not die for our sins?

No - Jesus could have come for two purposes, that are really mingled into one purpose. Jesus came to save us, we can agree on that. And he does it this way:

1) He shows us the path - he gives us the knowledge, if you will 2) And what is this knowledge? Well, this is where I believe what the early Gospels wrote - that the knowledge or the way to enter into heaven through Christ is to die with Christ, so that one may rise up again with Christ into his kingdom.

In other words, Jesus Christ came to show us his way, and his way is the way to the Cross.

Jesus came to die for our sins. Why did Jesus die, and how does he do it?

Well look back at the Old Testament. God demanded sacrifices from those whom worshiped him. These sacrifices of lambs and sheep were a sign of love that a human should display to the Father. The ultimate sacrifice - the giving of God's only begotten Son is the ultimate expression of love that one can have. Therefore, God's sacrifice of his son shows his love for us.

Next, we have sinned. We all sin against God. Sometimes we do not accept his truth or his path. We want to follow our own way. Well, that is wrong. And the biggest wrong was the first one, by Adam and Eve. Thus, we must pay for our sins. But God loves us so much, that he sends his Son to take up the punishment.

Jesus Christ is able to take up the sins of the world, because the sins of the world are too heavy for any human to bear, but the evil of the sins of the world are nothing compared to the infinite goodness of Jesus Christ. Imagine if you placed a drop of ink into the ocean - the ink drop is the sin of the world, and the ocean is the ocean of God's love and his mercy upon forgiving our sins.

We've sinned, so God must forgive our sins, or we'll go to hell. Either God does not judge us for our sins (forgives them) or he God does judges us. Because God is good, he forgives us.

And what is the best way that God can show his immense love for us and forgive our sins at the same time? By sending his only Son to die on the Cross. God could have forgiven our sins without this, but then we would not know the immense love God has for us.

Finally, people before Jesus Christ did not go to hell. If they were evil, they went to hell - like people who fought the prophets etc.

If people before Christ were good, they went to a place where Abraham, Issac and Jacob rested and awaited Jesus Christ, the Messiah and the Savior to deliver them into heaven. So, rapping this up:

1) We sinned, God must either forgive or judge our sins, God is merciful, so God forgives us. 2) God shows his forgiveness for our sins in the greatest way possible, sacrificing his Son for us. 3) The Sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the last Sacrifice of humanity needed for God, no more lamb sacrifices needed - he seals it. 4) The righteous before Christ awaited for him in "Sheol" - the unrighteous were in Hell.

Hope that answers your question. I myself am a fully convinced Eastern Catholic. God be with you, Gabr-el 05:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. We can exchange ideas if you wish, or we can debate as well. I will respond to your ideas soon enough. Gabr-el 23:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Debate[edit]

I invite you to a debate. I promise to remain civil with you. However, we seem to disagree, and I think the best way to resolve this is by presenting our ideas and countering each other's.

First point; you said that the Bible was written by humans. Humans are fallible, so by this logic, so is the Bible. However, you too are a human, and so fallible. Thus, your thoughts on what God is are susceptible to mistakes. Thus, either everyone is fallible and prone to error and we can trust nothing and know nothing with certainty. Or we must declare that the absolute truth exists out there somewhere. My point is that to reject the Bible due to its human composition and yet to accept your own thoughts is inconsistent Gabr-el 02:16, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bible tampering is a myth, defeated more so by the recent discoveries of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which confirm the authenticity of the Bible. Passages of the Old testament found thousands of years old match those that are printed today.

Also, if Bible tampering is true, wouldn't the Bibles of distant or isolated Churches, like those of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church or the Assyrian Church of the East differ markedly from the Bibles of the Roman Catholic Church? Neither of these Churches came into much contact with each other at all until the 19th century. By your logic, they should all be different, as different opposing Churches would change the Bible to meet their own dogma.

The Bible was brought together by the Church, and included only 4 out of 70 "Gospels" - what you would call "tampering". In fact, this "tampering" was nothing more than rejecting the nonsense written hundreds of years after Christ's death and resurrection.

Only a few far fetched Scholars, who are not impartial, will disagree with the mainstream scientific opinion that the four Gospels of the Christian Bible - Mark, Matthew, Luke and finally John were written between 50 - 100 AD and that the Gnostic Gospels were written sometime between 150 - 400 AD. Thus, only the first four Gospels have any authenticity, since they were written at the same time that the Apostles were alive. The last Apostles would have been very old by 100 AD, so anything after 100 AD - namely the Gnostic Gospels of Thomas, Judas, Peter etc, are fabrications, and not authored by eyewitnesses - the 12 Apostles are the only eye witnesses who were with Jesus to know about Jesus.

A finaly proof that the Gnostic Gospels are false and the Cannonical gospels true - why do the Gnostic gospels speak of Jesus' childhood? How does anyone know what Jesus did or what miracles he performed when he was a baby - a time far before the Apostles had come (and so no eye witnesses)! The Canonical gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John only speak of Jesus' birth, his pilgrammage to Jerusalem when he was 12 and then his adult life - so only two childhood events, and two events so important that Jesus would probably have spoken of them himself.

My friend, forgive me if I insult you or your beliefs, but I criticize your way of finding the truth. You say that when you feel something is right you get a tingling sensation or you think you receive it from God. Well first of all, introspection is not a good idea since one can mis judge things. Many people can become convinced of very false events. I would rather believe in the books written by people who had Apostles alive as witnesses to find the truth myself.

If the truth is so easy to find out so as to look into oneself and receive it from God, why is everyone not at this truth? And why would God deliver such that so many people are convinced of conflicting views? Something cannot be right for one person and then wrong for another, that violates the Law of Contradiction.

If the truth is so easy to find out, why write the Gospels? Why would Jesus come and die for our sins? It seems that Jesus came because he had something that no else had, knowledge about how to inherit eternal life. Many religions in practice teach peace and love etc, but Christ came because none deliver it save himself. And the knowledge to receive eternal life? Is said by Jesus:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of )the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

"As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.

"This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."

John 6:53 - 58.

Only one path leads to God, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." - John 14:6

God be with you

Gabr-el 21:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To me, the only way to view the world that makes any sense, as to why God made us and why we have one life and not many is this: Love. Everything happens ultimately because God loves us, and everything, even pain and suffering, can be explained as God's love. Gabr-el 01:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is my pleasure to engage in such a meaningful conversation with you - allow me, if you will, to respond to your latest post. To me, it seems like you seek the truth, a wise venture, for the truth does exist. If the truth does not exist, then nothing can be certain at all. You say yourself that you feel like you are missing something.

I believe you are missing something. Jesus did teach somethings that many other religions teach - to not hate your enemies, to Love God etc. But there is one thing that they all do not teach, and that is he is the way - there are many other ways which masquerade as a path, but they are false paths. Jesus says that we must eat his body and drink his blood. This makes perfect sense to me, since our aim is to get as close to God as possible - what better way to get close to God both physically and spiritually than to take in his flesh and blood?

Some people think its horrible that we would eat the flesh and blood of our Lord. But don't babies feed from their Mothers milk? Their nutrition comes from her very blood, and the child even acquires large amounts of white blood cells in the process (like eating her flesh as well as drinking her blood). Jesus loves us way more than a mother loves a child, even though Mothers love is the best human love.

As for Jesus dieing for our sins. Imagine that you and your Father were in charge of a sensitive project. Your Father, because he loved you, gave you the power and responsibility to handle this sensistive project (like humans wanting freedom in life). But you screwed up in the project (like Adam's first mistake in eating the Apple). You are to be sentenced to death for this mistake in this project. However, your Father loves you so much, he says its his fault, so he gets killed and you live. Now can you see how much love there is? Your father suffered for you. Now imagine that your Father miraculously was raised from the dead. How awesome (like Jesus Christ raising from the dead). Your Father's life conquering death shows that his love surpasses everything, and defeats the pain of the initial separation.

When we suffer, its because God loves us - why? 1) We suffer because we are on the wrong path, so then the pain allows us to stop and rethink to move back to the correct path - God giving us the hints 2) When we suffer, we become like Christ, who suffered for us. Thus, through our suffering, we come closer to Christ and to God, our ultimate Goal. Gabr-el 01:13, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing you have said conflicts with Orthodox Christian opinion. The scriptures may have been written for that time, but I believe that nothing that Jesus said is out of date. As for Jesus loving us more than a mother, you can understand how much love you have for your kids, and then realize that God loves us so much more, because by being God he is greater.

Most Christians (about 70% - Catholics and Eastern Orthodox) do believe in Literally eating the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. As a mother gives her flesh and blood to her child, so then for Jesus to give us his flesh and blood is not far fetched for me.

The offering of Jesus' body and blood to us is literal in presence and meaning, but has a powerful symbol - the Cross is the Tree of Life that Adam and Eve could not eat from. Jesus Christ hanging from the Cross is the fruit and when we eat his flesh, we eat the fruit of the Tree of Life, and inherit the eternal life that our Heavenly Father promises us. Gabr-el 01:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Catholics and Orthodox have always had issues with each other. Where else the Roman Catholic Church and her Eastern Catholic brethren allow Orthodox to enter into their church buildings, Orthodox refuse to allow Catholics into Church. Anyways. I thank you for your respect, but equally important to me is your opinion - and do not hold back if you think it offensive. I am very zealous about my faith, but I am also very compassionate towards people who are not of the same religion as mine. Jesus Christ asked us to love our enemies as well. Jesus Christ also went to many Pagan villages and proclaimed the good news to them.

As for when do I eat the body and blood of Jesus? Every time a Priest conducts the Divine Liturgy. Jesus told his disciples to break the bread and pour out the wine, that it became his body and blood and to do it in remembrance for his sacrifice. I quote this from the Gospels, such as Matthew 26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2026;&version=15;

Peace be with you.

Gabr-el 23:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is a pleasure to talk with you.

First, I would like to say that what you are doing - praying, reviewing yourself, thanking God everyday - is a wonderful thing. You said you're not a Catholic, and you don't go to Church. The Catholic Church does NOT teach that people who are not Catholics are bad in anyway. In fact, if you do feel like going to Church, any Christian Church, even if its not Catholic, then I don't see why not. You and I are both human beings. We are both children of God. I am not better or more special than you just because I am a Catholic. As a non-Catholic, you would fit well in any Church, for Jesus Christ is the good doctor, and the doctor does not visit the healthy, but the sick - and you and I as humans are in constant need of the good doctor = Jesus Christ's healing medicine.

As for the married minister. First of all, the woman is conducting the affair is lying to herself. She is doing something evil (destroying a marriage) for her own pleasure, and yet lying to herself, saying that what she has with the minister is a special thing. Well, no she does not have a special thing. It is not special because the minister is willing to risk so much. In fact, is it not a foolish thing, because she is making him risk so much? If I were to gamble my house and my car and even my family for something so pathetic (extra sex), that would not be "special", that would be everything evil and foolish. Therefore, the minister is foolish and commiting a great evil. The woman friend of yours, as an agent of this action, is thereby responsible too. That minister is a married man. His wife should be able to satisfy him completely.

Catholics do not believe generally speaking in married priests. Priests are not allowed to marry. However, in the Eastern Catholic Churches, men who are married may then become priests, but cannot re-marry afterward. The reason why Catholics do not allow married priests is because Jesus Christ says in one of the Gospels that God's kingdom in Heaven has Eunuchs - men who do not have children. Thus, it is only fitting that men, who have strong desires to have sex, give this desire up as a sacrifice to our Heavenly Father.

Your analogy about the soul being like a diamond is nice - it needs to be constantly polished, just as our lives must be constantly maintained.

Our "ceremonies" consist of 7 Sacraments - Baptism, when Jesus was baptized, Holy Communion which is taking the body and blood of Christ, Confession which is confessing one's sins to receive absolution, Confirmation for those teenagers who now of a mature age can confirm their faith in Christ, Marriage for those who wish to love one person in life very much, Holy Orders for those who wish to be Priests or Nuns and love everyone very much (compare this with marriage, loving one person only) and finally Anointing of the Sick in which the dieing or the sick are blessed by God. We claim to receive these as written by the Bible, and they were developed by the early Fathers of the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit.

Finally you are definitely not an enemy, in fact you are my sister in Christ, just as every human being is my brother or sister. Peace be with you. Gabr-el 00:34, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. The answer to your question, am I a priest, is no. I am only 20 years of age, so even if I had entered the seminary at a young age, I would not have been a priest by now. However, I do have a small interest to be a priest. But I do not believe that this is compatible with a married life, for personal and dogmatic reasons. This is a problem for me, since I am keen on marrying, yet keen on serving God as well. Of course, one can serve God without having to be a priest.

Yes, we shouldn't judge. But be careful by what one means, by judge. In the ancient world, judges judged the condemned to life prison, to death, to a fine etc. Telling someone that they are in the wrong, is different from judging, for you have done a good thing to tell your friend that they are lying (telling them the truth of the matter) and you have refrained from judging them by allowing her to remain your friend.

I would advise you to seek the answers to your questions in the Mass of the Church, and by reading the Gospel of John. But this is just my advice. As it is your duty to inform your friend the truth about their relationship and not judge, so it is my duty to inform you about the truth I have found, and not judge you.

Shlama illukh. Gabr-el 05:09, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You say that in the Old Testament, God isn't portrayed as very loving. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ portrays God as one who can only be described as Love. There seems to be a contradiction. However, with God, time is not something that limits him. To understand God, one must see him not from a part, but from the entire perspective he drew of us. I can go on into detail showing how I think he is loving, and also where he may frighten some modern readers, including myself. Let me just give you a quick breakdown: as one who is only Good, it is only natural that the Good destroys evil, for then it is not Good. The people in the old testament are pretty stupid, always breaking God's laws (eating forbidden fruit, marrying multiple women, worshipping false gods etc). If God did not punish us for our sins, we would not know the danger of committing them. Our parents must discipline us so that we grow to be good. And the day came when all the prophets before the Messiah had straightened and cleared the way for him, the last prophet being John the Baptist, and finally the time had come for Jesus Chris to save the people - people need to be repentant before they can be forgiven, or else there is no apology to forgive. And we know how dumb humans are; humans won't be sorry unless they're terrified or have another desire to be sorry, such as love.

Because God is infinite, to say that God has male and female components is in my opinion not true, since this would limit him. Male and female exist only for the purpose of reproduction. In heaven, there is no creation by this manner. One should try to understand God not as a physical entity, but look at who he is and what he does. He loves, and that' pretty much most of what we need to know. God is neither male nor female. I say "he" because for centuries, a male dominated society has called him as such. He's our Father, but not male.

There is no age limit to being a priest below 16 or 18, but it takes a while as you might guess. One cannot serve God with such dedication without years of trying to understand him, not just in a reasonable and scientific way, but more importantly in a mystical and faithful way. Gabr-el 15:44, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, as a Christian, I reject the notion of karma. If it feels bad, meditate on the position. Let us analyze it shall we?

These situations are always easier to analyze piece at a time. We have three things to consider here: Yourself, your envious co-worker and then whether or not this is right.

For you, this is nothing short of a blessing. Everything is in God's hands. God has given you this job, or at least he has allowed the boss to give you the job. Ignoring the co-worker for now, you should only feel happiness for your higher position, and then thank God everyday for this position. This is your gift. Have you read the story of Cain and Abel? Two brothers who gave sacrifices to God. Abel always gave the best sheep to be killed and burnt for God whilst Cain only gave rotten fruit, and was jealous at the obvious favor God had for Abel - Abel loved God so much that he gave up the best he had, whilst Cain couldn't care less. Who do you think God loved more? Abel of course. Abel may have been in a better position as a shepherd to sacrifice meat to God, but could not Cain have also given goof fruit from his farm?

For your co-worker, the one you surpassed and is envious that they did not get promoted. Well, that is too bad for them. I mean, who are they kidding? We all receive times in which we feel so low. I am a 20 yr old male. I once asked out this friend of mine. She and I were close study buddies for a year. She refused me, but I still helped her a lot as a study buddy. Then along came this guy she hadn't known for some time, since high school. He didn't help her, but she liked him. I was definitely the more virtuous and upright man. Not surprisingly, this female friend of mine, whom spent much of her time, as I did in study, found this dude to be a pain and she stopped seeing him. Now, looking back at the situation, I THANK GOD I was rejected by her, because I now see that she wasn't any good, since her personality did not match mine.

Your co-worker maybe experiencing a tough time now, but we are all humbled by God. This person just doesn't know to make the best of a situation. When Jesus Christ was beaten, spat at and mocked on the Cross, how humiliating was that? Very, it is the ultimate humiliation. This co-worker is missing a mysterious way to connect closer to Christ - and they should pray to God for a better position than yours. In time, Our Heavenly Father dispenses justice to all, as it is written in the Gospel.

I'm sure now you understand what is right, at least according to my opinion based upon my faith. Go in peace; love your enemies and your friends - but Jesus asked us to love them as much as we love ourselves. Thus, love yourself as well. Above all us, Love God. Gabr-el 00:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Only in prayer do I meditate, and the meditation is not trying to clear my mind of everything forcefully, but just letting what comes to my mind come to it. If I worry about something, I let the thought persist without entertaining it - then the solution or some calm comes to me. I have had experiences were I medidate on something and then all of a sudden a very imortant bible passage comes to my mind, and i spend the next few days thinking about it. Gabr-el 22:51, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You have a deep personal experience with God and that is good - now why stop there? Why not join a Christian community and conduct worship together in mass? I tell you that when I joined my Chaldean Catholic Church, I was not looking for friends - only to serve. But behold, God gave to me the gift of many good friends, all of whom love God as I do just in the same way that God gave Solomon good life even though all he wanted was to be a wise ruler for Israel. God gives you treasure that even you could not have imagined in a lifetime of dreaming, and if not on Earth, then certainly in heaven - where no thief may break in. Gabr-el 01:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your welcome. By the way, see if your Church doesnt have mass on other weekdays - it doesn't have to be Sunday. God bless Gabr-el 22:44, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]