User talk:Dancerdoll

Welcome to Wikipedia. We welcome and appreciate your contributions, including your edits to Exotic dancer, but we regretfully cannot accept original research. Original research also encompasses novel, unpublished syntheses of previously published material. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your information. Thank you. Somno (talk) 02:48, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of previously published material to our articles as you apparently did to Exotic dancer. Please cite a reliable source for all of your information. Thank you. Somno (talk) 03:18, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not add copyrighted information to the encyclopedia. What you are adding is a direct copy-and-paste of the unreliable reference you have provided, which appears to be your own website. This is an encyclopedia, not a forum for self-promotion or a place to publish original research. Please familiarise yourself with the core Wikipedia principles Verifiability, No original research, and Reliable sources, rather than just continuing to add back the same information. Thanks, Somno (talk) 03:23, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Im confused.. please explain why may article was removed. Kelly

Hi Kelly. The article itself wasn't removed, but the content you added to it was. While we welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, it seemed to me that you were adding information copied directly from the Dancerdoll website. That is not a reliable source, and your username suggests a conflict of interest in that you own or contribute to the Dancerdoll website. The information you've added might be correct, but all information added needs to be verifiable, not just true. You can re-add the information if you can find a reliable source (i.e. not your own website and original research, more like an article in a journal, newspaper or even magazine). Check out the links I've provided for more info. Does this help explain it? Somno (talk) 03:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

okay..now im figuring this wikipedia user experience out. sorry for editing your profile page. my experiences are of 7 years as an exotic dancer and my coworkers have written this together. how much more of a reliable source would you need? I have been on maxim magazine, hbo latin america.. I simply am trying to state facts that are common knowledge in the exotic dancer industry and I have been a proponent and an ambassador to girls who dance for a living. you are cutting me short somno.

Dancerdolls is a reliable source for this industry. we have been giving advice to women who dance since 2000. I am simply trying to make people understand what the exotic dancing means to women. please understand this. also, i did not copy the exact article on dancerdolls. it was modified by the original advocate.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dancerdoll (talk • contribs)

Hi Kelly, that's OK about my userpage; I fixed it. If you click the "Discussion" tab at the top, that's where my talk page is - looks like you've found it now. You can just reply to me on this page here, and I'll read it. Yes, you probably do know a lot about the industry, I'm not disputing that, and I'm also not disputing that the information is true. I am saying that it's not a reliable source as far as Wikipedia is concerned. The article on Dancerdolls has this as its sole reference: "This article is based on the experience and opinions of seasoned dancers and ex-dancers who were interviewed by Kelly Davis of Dancerdolls.com". Wikipedia is not the place for the people's experience and opinions, no matter how true or interesting. Has there been an article in Maxim, for example, that discusses why people become exotic dancers? Or do you just mean you were featured in Maxim? (Which is quite impressive actually, but doesn't make you a reliable source for an encyclopedia.) Does this make sense? Have you read the reliable sources policy? I think it does a better job of explaining it than I do! Please also sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes (~), that will produce an automatic signature. Hope that helps, Somno (talk) 04:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, i see your point but then please give me advice on how to get this changed. Yes I was on maxim interviewed by one of their writers on an article about the strip club industry. In any case, the current information on wikipedia does not do this topic justice. I am now more determined than ever to get this fixed. My biggest stumbling block is that this paricular subject is never taken seriously and finding "reliable source" according to wikipedia standards is almost impossible. We are always associated with taboo subjects that never give a true exotic dancer a chance. It is unfair and if wiki doesn't give me us a chance, then who will? please help me somno. in other words.. what can i do to get this article who many dancers have contributed to. Please let their voices be heard regardless. Can i contact wiki? will that help?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dancerdoll (talk • contribs)

Self-published sources

   Main article: Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published sources (online and paper)

Self-published sources may be used only in very limited circumstances; see above. Hey.. i fit in this bracket.. I am an online source. I write for dancerdolls.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.8.115.73 (talk) 04:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent Kelly, Wikipedia needs people like you who are determined to improve articles! The article is very short and I'm sure you can improve it. It's not possible to use the article on Dancerdolls as a reliable reference, but that doesn't mean you can't use other references. Contacting Wiki won't help - personal opinions just don't belong in Wikipedia. However, there are still ways to improve the article - I'm sure there must have been many studies conducted by academics on why women become exotic dancers, and on the exotic dancing industry itself, so it's just a matter of finding those studies, and adding that information and references. Are you familiar with any studies or articles on the topic? Do you have access to any books published on the topic? There will be reliable references out there, and if you have the determination to find them and improve the article, you'll be able to! Somno (talk) 04:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the anonymous contributor above, if they clicked the link they referred to they would read "For that reason, self-published books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, forum postings, and similar sources are largely not acceptable." Somno (talk) 04:31, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

but don't i qualify as a verifiable source? i'll put my real name, the club i work at and co-workers who want to see this published? studies conducted are written by people who do not truly understand what an exotic dancer is. Just because I am not associated with a study group doesn't mean I am not a reliable source. I have been writing for dancerdolls since 2000, and people in the industry know me. again, the the problem is that we are not taken seriously and when something is written, we are usually cast in a negative light. I am an online writer and wikipedia states that self-published sources can be used in very limited circumstances. I believe this article and my writings are one of these limited circumstances.

Sorry somno, im just a little upset over my credibility with wikipedia.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dancerdoll (talk • contribs)

Don't take it personally; almost no contributors to Wikipedia are considered reliable sources (including me), which is why we have to refer to external reliable sources for the information we add. What you want to add is considered original research (as in, it's research you conducted with other dancers) - there is a Wikipedia policy against this, No original research. Surely there must be research out there conducted by reliable sources that do show an understanding of what it means to be an exotic dancer? There must a lot of research out there on the topic. Somno (talk) 04:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If I post the maxim article where I am used as a source of information, will that help my cause?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dancerdoll (talk • contribs)

It probably won't make any difference. The best use of your time and effort would be to find some external reliable sources that have conducted some research that you think will help the article. Please don't give up on improving the article, but I don't think there's any way to refer to the info from Dancerdolls. Do you need to use that on Wikipedia, anyway? If the info is already up at Dancerdolls, isn't that giving the dancers a voice? You can publish whatever you like there without following all the rules of Wikipedia, and just contribute the results of academic studies to Wikipedia instead? Somno (talk) 05:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]