User talk:Dantheman531/Archive 13

Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Northern Ireland flag usage

Hello Dan. I have been following this mediation case, and am somewhat concerned about how it is progressing. I haven't really followed many mediation cases, but I wouldn't have thought they normally proceed like this. I see the same old rhetoric repeated again and again, and I see a lot of circular logic and questionable references to Wikipedia policy, both of which seem to be intended to confuse the issue.

If I may be so bold as to offer my opinion here, I hope it will help. From my perspective, I think there are two problems:

1. What should be done with respect to direct discussion about the flag, such as in the Flag of Northern Ireland article and for the flag segment of the standard infobox found in the Northern Ireland article?
2. What should be done with respect to the use of the flag as a decorative icon and/or navigation aid on articles in which Northern Ireland is treated as a "category" of places, people, etc.?

I think these two issues need to be decoupled and addressed semi-independently. For example, some of the guidelines in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (flags) would seem to apply to the second issue, but not the first. Does a template like Template:Lists of Marilyns really need flags? Probably not. But I think the reason for removing them from that template is irrelevant when deciding what the Northern Ireland infobox should contain.

As for the first issue, I think the crux of the matter is which of two POVs is more neutral:

1. POV "A" says that since the flag does not legally represent the people of Northern Ireland, it should not be used except within a historical context, and for reputable, verifiable contexts where Northern Irish sportspeople are represented by the flag (such as the football team, the Commonwealth Games team, for golfers, etc.)
2. POV "B" says that since the flag is used broadly enough in those sporting contexts and other commonly seen instances (Google images, Encyclopedia Brittanica, etc.), it should be more prominently seen as a current "unofficial" flag rather than marginalized as a historic artifact.

I hope you don't mind me offering my opinion here, and I hope it helps even a bit. I didn't want to contribute to the noise that the mediation talk page has become, but I also didn't want to just sit and say nothing as that debate deteriorated. Thanks, Andrwsc 21:11, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Dan, I came here with the intention of writing something very similar to what Andrwsc has written, but he has beaten me to it, and in a rather more eloquent manner that I could have done. As Andrwsc says, the same old arguments are being repeated over and over again; I wouldn't presume to tell you how to carry out the mediation, but I do wonder whether a little more help in focusing the discussion wouldn't go amiss? It has long since passed the point where I cared what the eventual outcome was; I just want the argument to be over, one way or the other. — ras52 23:51, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Dan, I think it would help if you stepped in and give some guidance on this Astrotrain idea of compromise is that he is allowed to ignore all rules, and be allowed to do so. He has also started editing again adding the Ulster Banner to the Current National Flags section on the List of British flags article the banner is already shown on that article in the Historical Flags section and has been warned by a admin for this, with that article having to be protected again as a result.--Padraig 00:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Iraq War Mediation

Dan, I was wondering if you would consider taking up the Iraq War mediation case. I think the #1 thing that needs to happen is that everybody needs to calm down and start rationally relating to one another, and after that it should be easy. Do you think you would be able to help us out? -- I. Pankonin (t/c) 23:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Iraq War Mediation Cont.

I don't consider myself to be on Ipankonin's or Wayne's side because I no longer agree with either one's version of the lead. I had originally agreed upon a version with Ipankonin, but after reading through Wayne & Co.'s arguments I must agree that my version contained language which is inappropriate for the lead. However, I do not think that Wayne's version gives a fully accurate picture of the state of Iraq's WMD programs as determined by the ISG. How do you want to proceed with the medation?--Rise Above The Vile 02:14, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Northern Ireland Flag mediation

Dan, the mediation has stalled again. I thought we were close to a compromise on List of British flags- following your and Ras's suggestion. I added in my compromise position for Template:UKFlags and requested comments. However Padraig deleted the whole section of my comments. I first assumed he made a mistake, so I restored it, but he removed it again with this comment [1]. Astrotrain 20:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I made it very clear to astrotrain that I had no intention of discussing each individual article and template one at a time, he then tried to open a new discussion about another template so I removed it. Maybe astrotrain has lots of free time on his hand and can waste weeks on this mediation but I value my time to much to play his little games, he has made no serious attempt to provide any serious sources to support his case.--Padraig 20:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

When you get back, some help is needed on the mediation. Padraig has stopped deleting my comments and suggestions- however it would be helpful if someone could decide on whether the sources supplied so far can be used. Thanks Astrotrain 20:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Astrotrain, as you haven't provided any WP:V sources that support the context you want to use the Ulster Banner, all your sources are links to commercial websites selling the banner, or its use in sport which is not disputed, what are you asking the mediator to decide on. Also the arcom on the troubles which this issue is part of has ruled on this issue, so unless you can provide sources then you can't use it to represent Northern Ireland today, outside the context of its sports use or its use on Unionists/Loyalists articles or templates.--Padraig 21:30, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Continuing the mediation

I agree to the request for a few days break. Any ideas on how to continue when that period ends would be welcome. The eidt war has also spread to Flag of Northern Ireland, so it would be good to solve this soon. Astrotrain 21:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no editwar except Setanta pov pushing.--Padraig 21:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Mentoring Barnstar

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		message thanks for helping out my students! You made a lasting impression on them! Thelmadatter (talk) 17:06, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Flag mediation

Regarding your message on closing the mediation, I would agree with that, but I wouldn't regard it as a total failure, if anything it highlighted the fact that they cannot provide any WP:RS to support the uses of the flag that they sought, outside of the uses I put forward initialy. Therefore their edit warring is based on WP:OR and can be reverted using existing Wikipedia policies.--Padraig (talk) 23:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Padraig, this is totally inappropriate and incorrect. I spent many, many hours browsing through hundreds of articles that currently show the Ulster Banner to prepare my proposal on what should be acceptable and what should be removed, including clearly reliable sources that support those ideas. For you to misrepresent those ideas and disregard that effort with a callous implication that I am edit warring and violating Wikipedia policies is a massive slap in the face. I am offended. Andrwsc (talk) 00:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Andrwsc, my comment wasn't directed at or about you, this mediation involved myself and Astrotrain as representing each side in this discussion, and whilst you did provide sources they where mainly relating to sport use which was not in dispute. Astrotrain on the other hand failed to provide any WP:RS to justify the context in which he wanted to use the banner.--Padraig (talk) 07:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you do me a favor & delete the last "comment" section that was added to the Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Northern Ireland flag usage‎ page, after the case was closed? It's unhelpful, & was just used as an excuse for two editors to slader me & level various false charges such as edit warring & sock puppetry. Fennessy 19:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Mediation

Hi, I have a question. Am I allowed to put comments under other people's statements?--Jerrch 19:46, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Adopter

Hi Dantheman531,

I've started to clean up the Adopters' list. You appear to have changed username since you added yourself to the list but not updated your info there. In case you're still interested, can you kindly update your information? Or, if you're not interested any more, would you mind removing yourself? Thank you and happy editing, Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 22:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)~~

Possible Hacking of Account

(12/15/2007) You told me (Fushapa) that I had altered a page improperly, yet I have never seen the page until you gave me the message. It seems to me that my account has been hacked into. Can you look into this please? Fushapa (talk) 00:02, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

This was your message: Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Karan Johar, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. --דניאל - Dantheman531 20:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

==New Semester, New Appeal==This semester I am teaching academic writing to a group of teachers at my school. This course starts on Monday Jan 28. I would like to know if you are still interesting in "mentoring". You can see the syllabus at Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects/ITESM_Campus_Toluca/SyllabusIf so, please leave a message on my talk page and update the mentor's page Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects/ITESM_Campus_Toluca/Mentors, if . If not, please remove your name and information from that page. Thanks! Thelmadatter (talk) 00:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Rollback

Hello Dantheman531, I have granted rollback rights to your account. The reason for this is that, after a review of some of your contributions, I can trust you to use rollback correctly by using it for its intended use of reverting vandalism: I do not believe you will abuse it by reverting good-faith edits or to revert-war. For information on rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback and Wikipedia:Rollback feature. If you do not want rollback, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Good luck. Acalamari 23:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I came across your last RfA when checking the "what links here" on my userpage. I viewed your edits after reading your RfA, and decided that you and the encyclopedia would benefit from having rollback. Acalamari 02:42, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. :) Acalamari 17:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Partial list of stubs/short articles created or rewritten by Adv A students

I know there are a lot here but many are very short stubs. If there are a lot of grammar mistakes, just tag it with a clean up tag. I did not require that they wikify the articles due to time. Final versions for grading purposes are due Tue Feb 5 so any help you can give would be appreciated.

Santa Clara del Cobre, San Felipe del Progreso, Villa de allende, Ixtapan del Oro, Zumpahuacán, San Juan del Río, Nautla, Santo_tomas_de_los_platanos, Tejupilco, Saint Vincent (island), Jilotepec, Tlacotepec, Palizada, Santa Gertrudis (This student wrote about the town in Oaxaca State but it redirects to Misión Santa Gertrudis in Baja California. The student´s stub is under the information about the mission), Álvaro Obregón (municipality), Zentla, Bernal, Querétaro, Temoaya, Acambay, Xpu Há, Chapa de Mota, Pasorapa, Huasca_de_Ocampo, Malinalco, Mexico State, Almoloya de Júarez, Polotitlan, Córdoba, Veracruz, Mexicaltzingo, Lagunillas, Michoacán, [Ixcateopan]], Benito Júarez, Quintana Roo, Jocotitlan, Ixtlahuaca, Temascaltepec, Teapa, Tabasco, Huandacareo, Zualcapan, México, Capulhuac, Xalatlaco, Boca del Cielo

Thelmadatter (talk) 00:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

More stubs!!! (the last major batch, I promise!)

Malinalco, Valle, Tlalpujahua, Xonotla, Otumba, Aculco de Espinoza, Lerma, Tonatico, Luvianos, Tarimoro, Guanajuato, Tambopata - Candamo, Donato Guerra, Angangeo, Huixquilucan, Tlatlaya, Jiquipilco, Juchitepec

Again thanks! The students are taking your tagging their articles to heart. Thelmadatter (talk) 20:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Four more stubs

Otzoloapan, San Jose Villa de Allende, Temascalcingo, El Oro Thelmadatter (talk) 23:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)