User talk:Darouet/Archive 2

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Reference errors on 26 June

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Please comment on Talk:Prince Aimone, Duke of Aosta

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A page you started (Loganellia) has been reviewed!

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Discretionary sanctions notification - Eastern Europe

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Balochistan

Hi Darouet, thanks for your comment at Balochistan, Pakistan. I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm not from the region either. Something about the resistance to this content is really funky. Some of the people (Rashidzaman and Zmaghndstakun) who have commented in favor of exclusion have made statements like "This is an administrative province article and should expand on the History, Government, Geography, Fauna / Flora, Climate, Culture, Sports, Religion, Demography and Administration of the province." Aren't insurgencies, human rights violations, poverty, all connected to history, government, demography, and culture? I keep pressing this point with them, but nobody has yet to answer that directly. TopGun made a similar comment, (I think the others copied him) only he left out a few areas of interest: "this is an administrative province article and should expand on the fauna / flora, climate, culture and administration of the province." Anyhow, you're asking the right questions. It's also a little funky to me that Rashidzaman and Zmaghndstakun have not edited much outside of these areas. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:44, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Great new comments at this talk page, thanks for that. You know, another argument that has come up several times without adequate answer, is: Content about human rights violations already exists at the Human rights violations in Balochistan article, so it doesn't belong in this article. My counter-argument had been that we're not limited to only mentioning content in one spot. I've cited the example that Orson Welles' article mentions Citizen Kane, as you'd expect it to. I don't see that anyone answered that sufficiently, but since you represent fresh eyes, I'm curious what your take is. This was an example of the bulk of the content I was proposing on the human rights issue. It was based on the content that an IP editor (who, sadly, turned out to be a sock operator) had contributed. I think an editor had a problem with one of the sources. Can't recall. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:37, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Actually you can't just review content "in one spot." Articles are required to have good summaries of all material that falls within the scope of the article, with additional articles linked next to those summaries. So, those arguments are specious. -Darouet (talk) 03:39, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

I think you're fully up to speed now and I'll just shaddap. :) Also, I've tried to get interest in outside opinions by posting at a number of WikiProjects including Human Rights, Pakistan, Geography (I think) and some others. The participation is low, so if you think of other projects to invite, that'd be nice. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:46, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, for these kinds of issues, getting outside participation is critical. It's also really difficult though. People who don't have strong opinions or some national/ethnic/religious agenda to push are frightened by the high level of editing aggression, and so avoid these issues. As a result, cool-headed, rational and objective people, who are the most needed, are the least likely to participate. -Darouet (talk) 03:53, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm there entirely in my capacity as a gnome. The aversion to include any content about human rights strife, economic strife, etc. piqued my curiosity, particularly because so many people were vociferously against it and it seemed so counter-intuitive. This is probably the only time I've ever been in agreement with someone who was a sock operator. An IP editor kept edit-warring to get the content in the article and started the original RfC. When they were determined to be a recurring sock jobber, people started striking out their comments as you would expect, but I felt the question had merit, so I closed the RfC and re-opened it minus the sock's voice. There's a lot of agenda-driving in Indian/Pakistani content. I have some experience gnoming in Bollywood cinema articles, and it's ridiculous how much fluff, promotion and phony information is out there. Anyhow, blah blah blah. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:04, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Death of Sandra Bland for deletion

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DYK for Death of Sandra Bland

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Decision needed on mediation

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Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lead section#Allow fifth paragraph of lede?

I invite you to the latest discussion about ledes in general. --George Ho (talk) 06:53, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

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Please comment on Determining encyclopedic content

Hello Darouet you left me this message about my WSWS comments you deleted-

   "Hi Deschutes, I was one of the editors that removed your section at WSWS. It had no citations from reliable sources to verify that it was true: critical attributes of any content included in Wikipedia. Writing about your personal experiences with a website is a form of original research, and common sense should suggest to you that those individual experiences aren't notable enough to include coverage in any encyclopedia.

   All that said, I'd encourage you to use your interest to improve Wikipedia: for instance if you're knowledgeable about a subject and have access to reliable sources that can improve a subject, please try editing relevant articles, with appropriate citations, to improve those for readers. -Darouet (talk) 17:05, 1 October 2015 (UTC)"

Actually I think my experience is notable and worth putting in there. Maybe you work or sympathize with WSWS therefore want my comment deleted? You seem to be kind of biased in their favor in my opinion. Plus if you applied that same measure of "notableness" to Wikipedia in general much of what is published would in fact have to be deleted. There is something rotten about a website, WSWS, that will not tolerate open discussion in its forums and that is a fact. Maybe I can start a blog and gather up all of the people who had their comments deleted under WSWS articles when they dared to question the WSWS author: when I get 100 or 500 I'll come back to the Wikipedia WSWS website and put it in as objective, peer reviewed research with references. But I would guess you'd still find some other reason to delete it. --(Deschutes Maple (talk) 11:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)). Take care and nice day, Deschutes Maple

@Deschutes Maple: I don't know what you want me to tell you: yes, your experiences with the web comments section of some WSWS articles deserve to make their way onto an encyclopedia? I doubt they even belong in the encyclopedia of your life, let alone wikipedia. -Darouet (talk) 17:55, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Blue Army (Poland)

Hi Darouet, if I can ask you to refrain for adding controversial statements to the article's intro section. The statement you added, though from a legitimate source, is one sided — presenting but one point of view, and a very extreme version of the event at that. Other sources describe the circumstances of what occurred in a much different way, thus such one sided statements are inappropriate for the intro. What we know is that there was violence directed at the local Jewish communities, the scale, severity and even the number of casualties is highly disputed. Unfortunately, yourself and user Faustian have been very pushy in making this secondary issues the primarily focus of the article. Pls stop. --E-960 (talk) 15:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

E-960, I appreciate your civil note, however your conduct at Blue Army (Poland) has been deplorable. You ask that I refrain from adding a "one sided" statement from a legitimate source, which you yourself added to the article but paraphrased in such a manner as to directly contradict what the source really says. I left the source intact but quoted it, because there can be no ambiguity in the source's meaning through quotation. However, it appears you have reverted me to again falsely paraphrase the source. -Darouet (talk) 17:54, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

This Friday: Women in Architecture edit-a-thon @ Cambridge, MA

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Answer to your comment to me.

Wikipedia is about information. The writing of journalist is not the only source of information. Yes, for the actual information about what happened to the Kunduz trauma centre we have to go there, but information like the status of a hospital in war, or if treating the Taliban wounded removed their protected status, is available right here on Wikipedia, vetted and referenced. And should be used as a counterpoint to wrong or vague statements by journalists or officials.Jochum (talk) 22:54, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

The information you describe about protection status is also available in reliable sources outside Wikipedia. You need to find those sources if you want to write about these issues. That's just basic research protocol. -Darouet (talk) 22:57, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

So you are her by declaring that a linked article in Wikipedia including all the reliable references is not acceptable? Why write it up all again? Is Wikipedia not exactly about a wide pool of !linked! information?Jochum (talk) 01:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

You can link articles, but when you do that you are linking subjects, not verifying information. You can't assume that other articles are properly written and sourced: they may not be. And either way, every statement in every article on Wikipedia is supposed to be supported by a reference to a third-party, neutral and reliable source. That's a good thing. Has anybody shown you how to do this? It's really not so bad, and if you learn how, you will help Wikipedia be a better encyclopedia. -Darouet (talk) 03:15, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback

On the Kunduz page. I don't feel worked up though; do you really think it was a nasty comment? VQuakr (talk) 05:55, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Hey VQuakr, your comment wasn't unhinged or anything, but "you obviously lack either the inclination or the competence to be educated" just wasn't necessary I think. We've both edited at articles where the editing environment is kind of poisoned and many people act in bad faith - and for me certainly it can sometimes alter my interactions elsewhere on wikipedia? In the case of Kunduz, ironically, I suspect you're somehow onto something, but I would wait longer before dropping the hammer is all. -Darouet (talk) 06:46, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. I really do appreciate the feedback. VQuakr (talk) 07:45, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

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SWAT article

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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Ghouta chemical attack

I just noticed this; I find it rather disappointing that given the caustic nature of the comments by some other editors on that page you are piling on with more accusations of bad faith rather than focusing on content. I would have thought you would know better. What gives? VQuakr (talk) 16:39, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I apologize: I've been frustrated with what looks like the habit of blanket reverting in this article. I also think that you are in most ways an exemplary editor. I'm very busy today but will strike my comments and write something more productive soon. -Darouet (talk) 19:23, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate it. VQuakr (talk) 21:16, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

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Thank you so much for your considered opinion on this talk page, I admit, I am getting out of my depth, in that I have never come across such intransigence on a Wikipedia article. The editors concerned seem to believe that the edits are my position rather than the stated opinion as reflected by the source material, which is:

1: UK legally-held firearms ownership was on the increase.

2: that legally-held gun crime was down

3 illegal gun crime was up

Each edit had the associated citation from primary and secondary sources and I thought that was that until the edits kept getting reverted with no reason given. Subsequently, the only other editor editing the article started hypothesizing what the authors 'actually meant', arguing against what they actually wrote in the source material. Also, the same editor stated that calculating from the official stats against the source material was acceptable to remove said referenced material and was not OR when clearly it was. Next thing I know, 3-4 editors appeared all backing his position irrespective of the fact the source material was not contentious, I even had one editor suggest that the removal of an edit by another editor was reason enough to label an edit 'contentious'. Sorry to have gone on but I'm at a loss on what to do next, best wishes. Twobells (talk) 16:53, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Twobells, it's true they're intransigent, but they also have also made a number of valid points regarding the sources. My view is that the changes you are wishing to make are not critical to this topic - if they were, many secondary sources would be available describing this phenomenon. What I think you should do is read more widely to find out if this is really happening, and if many reporters or reliable sources are commenting on it. -Darouet (talk) 17:07, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Hello again, I agree, it is not critical, I never thought it was, however, the source material lays out facts that should be in the article, it is the removal of reliably-sourced reference material that shocks me. regards. Twobells (talk) 17:55, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Sometimes editorial intransigence creates problems where there could easily be consensus. In my view, others on the page have both expertise (helpful) and strong POV (unhelpful) that creates a mixed editing environment. But, to their credit, Keri and NickCooper are very interested in discussion, and that's great. If I were you, I'd hit the books and try to learn more about recent gun violence history and stats in the UK, and find more expert commentary on the topic. I think they'd be open to it and in the end, the article will be stronger for your and their efforts. -Darouet (talk) 18:08, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

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You'll always remember your first

		The Purple Barnstar
		Warm wishes on the occasion of your first user page vandalization-! SteveStrummer (talk) 03:45, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you SteveStrummer, and for all your great work on the French Revolution, too! I do realize now that my page was in fact vandalized once before, but not as colorfully. -Darouet (talk) 15:19, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's greets!

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Thanks a lot Iryna Harpy and same to you! -Darouet (talk) 06:43, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

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Vandalism from similar IP

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Darouet (block log • active blocks • global blocks • autoblocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

127.0.0.1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

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Block message:

Autoblocked because your IP address was recently used by "KhalifaMalibu". The reason given for KhalifaMalibu's block is: "Sock puppetry. Please see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/TechGrizzl

• Blocking administrator: Mkdw (talk • blocks)

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Accept reason: Autoblock cleared. PhilKnight (talk) 00:02, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Apparently my IP, or a similar IP, was used by a vandal. Request unblock please. -Darouet (talk) 23:53, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Aloysius Stepinac

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Please comment on Talk:2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference

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Please comment on Talk:List of Islamist terrorist attacks

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Please comment on Talk:Muhammad

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Please comment on Talk:Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

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Hadith

I just read your comment about hadith on the 3PR board. Ty for being understanding btw :D. What would you like to know about hadith texts? FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 03:44, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi @FreeatlastChitchat: thanks for your note. I was annoyed that you reverted my (nevertheless imperfect) background addition, but later regretted reporting you, especially after your self-revert. Ideally, every article on a Hadith should note the tradition to which it belongs, its historical sources and context, some introduction to Hadith in general, and the text (depending on their length), ideally with a little academic and perhaps even theological commentary.

It's clear that the article as it was written failed in almost every regard here. Who are the people commenting? What authority do they have? Are the quotes the text of the Hadith itself, or a discussion of it? If I understand your concerns correctly, you are also worried that substandard sources are perhaps being used for some dogmatic purpose, e.g., to prove the validity of one faith or tradition over another?

My view of religious texts in general is that their description, in an encyclopedia, should include first a secular historical and literary analysis, and then a religious analysis. I hope that the two sources recently provided can help us move in the right direction. -Darouet (talk) 00:18, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:China

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Galileo Sleepers

FYI: see User talk:Favonian#Galileo sleeper accounts? Cheers - DVdm (talk) 11:08, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration

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Please comment on Talk:British Empire

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Please comment on Talk:List of the oldest living state leaders

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Please comment on Talk:Hillary Clinton email controversy

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Please comment on Talk:Mary Katharine Ham

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Please comment on Talk:Bernie Sanders

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Please comment on Talk:Time Person of the Year

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Please comment on Talk:Fajr decade

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Please comment on Talk:Cold War II

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Please comment on Talk:Australian head of state dispute

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Reference errors on 3 March

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the Supreme Military Council (Syria) page, your edit caused a URL error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:22, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Gibraltar sovereignty referendum, 2002

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Syrian Revolutionary Front ..?

Dear colleague, I'm rather puzzled by an edit of yours, here, 3March, on FSA, especially where it refers to a 'Syrian Revolutionary Front'. I can't even find an article on that group; but it would have been YOUR job to make clear what that group is, for example by giving it a Wikilink. How do we know, for example, that that SRF is part of, or affiliated with (and what does that mean: 'affiliated with'?), FSA? For the reason that that is all too unclear now, I first remove that addition from section 'History--2014'. If you can be more precise and relevant about that information, of course you can add it again. With my best regards, --Corriebertus (talk) 15:15, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Corriebertus, the information is in the reference I provided by Cafarella - if you can't access it I can provide the text. -Darouet (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Talk FSA

Thanks for alerting me about Talk FSA. I really never knew you were trying to discuss with me on that page. I'll soon run to it and see. --Corriebertus (talk) 16:49, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Hello, Darouet. I've just posted a question, directed to you, on: Talk:Free Syrian Army#(Copied statements to) the lead section. Perhaps, you'd care to react on it. --Corriebertus (talk) 20:24, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments on my talk page. I've just posted a proposal on Talk:Free Syrian Army#The lead section, which I hope can satisfy you for a (great) part, at least. --Corriebertus (talk) 21:54, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Lord Uxbridge's leg

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Please comment on Talk:Johann Sebastian Bach

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Please comment on Template talk:Infobox officeholder

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AN/I input request: Brian Martin (social scientist)

There is an AN/I in which my attempts to get admin involvement at [WP:Brian Martin (social scientist)] are being portrayed as disruption. I see that you edited at Brian Martin.[1]

Will you please post your evaluation of the article to the ANI/I https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&action=edit&section=32 AN/I:WP:Brian Martin (social scientist) : other editor is feeling stalked/harassed. And is also attacking me. SmithBlue (talk) 10:26, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Federal Way Public Academy

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Please comment on Template talk:Democratic Party presidential primaries, 2016

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Please comment on Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95)

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Please comment on Talk:Josip Broz Tito

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Unblock request

Dear @Yamaguchi先生: your noble efforts to fight vandalism have left me unable to edit, perhaps via a range block? Help appreciated when you've time. -Darouet (talk) 17:59, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Darouet (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I am blocked by an IP or range block it seems and cannot edit even while logged in. Help appreciated! -Darouet (talk) 18:01, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Accept reason:

See below

Hello Darouet. So that I or another administrator may assist you, would you please copy the contents of the block notification that you are receiving? Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 18:14, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Sure Yamaguchi先生, this is what I'm seeing:

You are currently unable to edit Wikipedia. You are still able to view pages, but you are not currently able to edit, move, or create them. Editing from 70.192.0.0/16 has been blocked (disabled) by Yamaguchi先生 for the following reason(s): Block evasion: This block has been set to expire: 01:48, 2 April 2016. Even if blocked, you will usually still be able to edit your user talk page and email other editors and administrators.

Hope that helps! -Darouet (talk) 18:16, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, thank you. I have adjusted the terms of the range block such that you should now be able to log in and edit. My apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused. If you continue to experience any issues please do not hesitate to contact me. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 18:25, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1896–1954)

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Please comment on Talk:2013 Egyptian coup d'état

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Please comment on Talk:1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle

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Please comment on Talk:Ted Cruz

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Sunday July 16: New England Wiknic @ Cambridge, MA

Sunday July 16, 1-5pm: New England Wiknic

You are invited to join us the "picnic anyone can edit" at John F. Kennedy Park, near Harvard Square, Cambridge, as part of the Great American Wiknic celebrations being held across the USA. Remember it's a wiki-picnic, which means potluck. Sunday July 16 New England Wiknic (also on Facebook) 1–5pm - come by any time! Look for us by the Wikipedia / Wikimedia banner! We hope to see you there! --Phoebe (talk) 16:33, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)