User talk:Derek R Bullamore/Archive 9

Regarding Delicate Awol's page

Dear Sir, I'm writing here after you posted your POV tag on the Delicate Awol's band page. I've been in that band from 1997 until end 1999. The bass player and I left the band (as it is mentioned, even if Valerie L. and I are not mentioned, but this is another story) during a tour. I've been involved in the (early) promo stuff of the band, like coding the website. The promo was mainly produced by the band itself, and I think this is still the case. Best Regards, Yann Faurie (France) Omnireso (talk) 01:23, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes fine, whilst I would not wish to doubt your contribution, what exactly is your point ?

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 01:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello again. My point is about "The neutrality of this article is disputed." : when people write about themselves, how much neutrality can they express ? So little in that case. Regards. Omnireso (talk) 19:54, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi. The question of people writing about themselves is covered in some detail in Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, where it makes the point that "COI editing is strongly discouraged". One of the main reasons for this approach by Wikipedia, is that such action almost inevitably leads to violation of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and self promotion. Have you proof that this applies to this article, or is it simply your opinion ? As you may be aware, the question of a neutral viewpoint for articles is one of Wikipedia's Five pillars - so potentially violation of this approach is a serious matter. However, I must point out that I am a humble sub-editor here, with no 'special powers'.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:08, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Back on the topic, for a last go as it seems to me that this could last ages. How could I have proof ? What kind of proof is requested ? This is simply my opinion, as a past musician in that band. Regards. Omnireso (talk) 19:58, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

You could be right; it would not be the first time I have seen an article of an band, at least partly edited by that band's member (current or otherwise). However, looking at the edit history there, I am not sure. Either way, it is in conflict with Wikipedia's neutral policy, hence my addition of the POV tag. Frankly, without any further knowledge of this band, it is as far as I wish to go with the article. You quickly learn here that it is not possible to change everything for the better yourself, no matter how hard one tries. Regards,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Don't....

...look here..... Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Gosh you're a telly star now too. Puts my previous radio broadcasting stints in a poor light ! Well done. Do you watch it, cringe and think, hell I wish I had said something differently ? I could not listen back to my radio stuff, without always musing how I might have done it considerably better.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:58, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Nominate?

Pleased to. Poke me if I havnt done it in 24 hours Victuallers (talk) 22:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. I think the best hook relates to George Martin, a well known name globally, even if you only have a passing interest in popular music. Something along the lines of...

• ... that Don Charles debut single, "Paintbox Lover" (1961), was produced by George Martin?

Created by Derek R Bullamore (talk). Nominated by Victuallers (talk) at 23:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Incidentally, your user name always reminds me of Victenaar, one of my most favourite unusual beers in the world. Frankly, there are a few ! Plus Victualler conjures up a scene of bonhomie and good ale, which I recommend to all. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 01:26, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for executing the DYK nomination. Much appreciated. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:07, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Your welcome, the name Victuallers is intended to suggest bon -homie - please send beer in post. Note you will still need to review someone olses hook on the page to make your DYK acceptable. See nearby hooks to yours. Victuallers (talk) 17:57, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I think something was lost in the translation. The whole point of asking you to nominate the article was that you would do the review of another's work, rather than me ! Actually, reading the DYK lede again, it says this only applies to self nominated articles, but perhaps it should not leave a loophole such as this. I am not comfortable reviewing other's work, otherwise I would have simply nominated it myself. On the other matter, I tried pouring some Cropton Two Pints in an envelope to send to you, but it seeped out of the bottom - sorry.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 19:59, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Noisebox Records

The article Noisebox Records has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for references found two minor published (gBook) mentions, and a few online. Does not seem to meet WP:V or WP:N

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 17:53, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the proposed deletion - my only action on the article was to place the {Notability} tag, so such a course is of no surprise to me.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 18:37, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Iain Burgess

Hi Derek, do you any info on Iain's birthdate in your files? Thanks. Robman94 (talk) 21:58, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello again Robman, but sadly, no I don't. I have two Tim Burgess's - one with The Charlatans and another with T'Pau; Jackie Trent (born Yvonne Burgess); plus Dave Burgess (The Champs). Neither Allmusic [1], nor the Dead Rock Stars site [2], nor even this [3] is of assistance. Sorry, it's sackcloth and ashes time for me again !

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Jazz navbox and biographies

I noticed you added this to some biographies (Lyttleton etc). As they don't feature in the Navbox (nor do any other musicians), I don't see it as adding anything to assist the page user? I tend to remove this Navbox from biographical articles when I see it. Happy to discuss this approach at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jazz though, if you feel strongly about it. AllyD (talk) 18:21, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I thought that it might help the viewer, taking them to trad jazz, for example, which those musicians traded heavily in. However, if the general Wiki concensus is that the navbox does not belong on biographies, then so be it. It is certainly not a big deal to me - although I have noticed the blues equivalent in a number of blues musicians' articles. Perhaps this is more editor preferences rather than policy ?

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:35, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Re: User talk:96.23.175.65

Per WP:NPA and WP:DNIV, what is your justification for the following comment? "But, oh how we laughed, momentarily, then thought collectively, "what a cunt". Derek R Bullamore (talk) 01:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)" memphisto 12:47, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm guessing that somebody had hacked the template that Derek used, though I can't find evidence of that. I doubt that this was Derek's actual comment. Robman94 (talk) 16:14, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Beardcore

Hi Derek,

I have a knotty and perhaps entertaining little one for you. I found Beardcore in the creation log and didn’t know quite how to approach it. I asked advice from speedy delete specialist User:Lear's Fool who added it to AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beardcore – we are both quizzical about this. I thought I would ask you, as music expert, if you could add an opinion, or perhaps information, about this exotic genre. Hope you are well. Acabashi (talk) 05:00, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello, yes I am very well thanks - hope you are also. I have posted my comments at the AfD. To be honest I have not heard of this 'genre', although I am a little world weary of descriptive terminology for rock music, which can tend to produce a slightly different styling depending upon which side of the street you were born. I really think it is the shortage of sources that gives the game away. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:57, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The Flee-Rekkers

Anything you can add here? I've given up nominating my own articles for DYK, but would be happy to nominate any of yours if you like. (Hint, hint...)  :-) Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:31, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Hiya. I added a reference and minor tweaks, but am struggling for a 'hook' - any thoughts ? - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:42, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll get back to it in a day or so, and put a discography in as well. Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:23, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Have you changed your mind about submission for DYK ? I am conscious of the time factor, that's all. Regards,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:35, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

No, don't bother, thanks - I've given up caring about DYK now. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:44, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Message from WikiProject Punk music

Announcements and news for WikiProject Punk music
Febuary 2011: Update: There is currently a roll call going on at the project's talk page. If you are actively participating in the project please add your signature to the list. If you do not, you will be listed as inactive. Your name will be moved to the Inactive/former members section and/or the the project punk userbox will be removed from your user page. Thanks for your help

You are receving this because your user name is listed in Category:WikiProject Punk music members or on our participants list. If you would like to stop these sorts of updates please remove the userbox from your profile and move your name down to the Inactive/former members section of the participants list.
Cheers

--Guerillero | My Talk 01:51, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 01:57, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

BT Express

Hi Derek,

I noticed that you added on the BT Express wikipedia page that more citations are needed. As a person who is very familiar with the band and their music, I don't understand the purpose for the note. Their history is well established in the music industry. Could you tell me what are you asking for?

Thank you. Tomaca (talk) 14:16, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello Tomaca. I am not sure how aware you are of Wikipedia policy, but one of the more important aspects is explained at Wikipedia:Verifiability. Specifically it states "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth; that is, whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true." Whilst I do not doubt your knowledge of this ensemble, or that they are obviously notable enough to be included within Wikipedia, the fact that 'their history is well established in the music industry' does not assist any potential encyclopedia reader. They need to know where the information is cited that the band was originally known as Brooklyn Trucking Express, for example. At present this statement, along with several others, has no reliable source attached.

You yourself added the comment that "Give Your Body Up to the Music" was written by Andre Saunders, but there is not an in-line citation to this effect. That is, more generally, what the {Refimprove} tag is pointing out to all potential editors. Therefore what Wikipedia, not me, is asking for, is more reliable third-party references to cover those parts of the information in the article that are presently unsourced. I hope this is clear and assists you.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:18, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Life, the universe and everything

Thanks for your comments. If you want an example of how one interested (some would say obsessed) editor can "improve" an article (or at least massively expand it), compare this with this. I've no idea what the content of the article is like now, as it's far too long for any sane person to read, but at least it shows an effort to improve WP. Don't know about you, but I've noticed a big, big reduction in the numbers of editors who make solid improvements to music articles over the past couple of years - most of the music projects of which I'm a nominal member seem to be almost moribund, and I can count the number of regular reliable music editors on one or two hands. One of the reasons I've "come off" DYK is actually that it prioritises new articles which often aren't needed, at the expense of measures to improve existing articles - not necessarily through the GA/FA processes with which I've not been involved, but just generally. By the by, I've noticed (but haven't said anything before) that you do a lot of "tagging" of articles. That's fine, but it does often occur to me that, often, you and I are among the best placed people to actually improve those articles, with sources and considered edits. I don't really want to give myself, or you, more work, but have you noticed any particular articles - of important musicians - who we (or I) should target for improvements in the way of biography, discography, etc.? For instance, I had a go at Duane Eddy a while ago (and got a helpful email from his wife in return!!), and it didn't take very long to add big chunks of his biography and a discography into the article. Thoughts welcome. Anyway, good to hear from you. Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Gosh, that spawns the euphemism 'do a Solomon' for massively, or indeed grossly, expanding an article. I am right with you on the numbers of active music editors falling away sharply. Even the regulars seem to rarely appear on my watchlist, although they may be beavering away elsewhere. I have absolutely no theory as to why that should be, but you and I are going to be merely sprinkling the ocean (another euphemism), if that is all Wikipedia has got to count upon. I tend to have phases of spending days/weeks tagging items, then changing tack to adding references, then moving on to expanding death information, or maybe next trying to create new articles. I would agree, in some instances, that we are best placed to reduce, rather than increase, the amount of tags on music articles, but we are not supermen. Sadly your reference to 'quantity over quality' is spot on - there is nothing like enough effort put into improving existing articles, and way too much prominence on creating new ones. At least the DYK ones get some critical attention. There are tens of thousands of non-DYK articles, which start out as abject rubbish and go rapidly downhill from there. I theorise that tags sometimes dissuade those, who might otherwise add further opinionated twaddle to existing thinly referenced work; but it is a forlorn hope rather than truly scientific.

Actually, in the past year or so, I have not generally attempted to greatly expand any article (do a Solomon). This dates back to the copyvio incident, which completely knocked my confidence, and saw great swathes of my work disappear (thousands of man hours work). Joe Jackson is my most vivid memory of that time. Compare previous to present. I got a barnstar for the earlier version. Plus the time I spent on the affiliated single and album articles - I haven't looked at those since. Perhaps we could have a go at dear old Joe together ? I need more time to think about others that might be worth a bash. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:56, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)

Sorry Derek, I couldn't resist. Arjayay (talk) 15:43, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Tee hee. Actually, do you think I should not place a tag (or two) on this ? - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 20:27, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I can't see anything wrong with that article ;-) Arjayay (talk) 15:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Well nothing requiring removal:- other than some bold text, SOME CAPITALS, and some wonderful, beautiful, fantastic, self promoting, peacock phrases. Arjayay (talk) 15:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Despite the sarcasm, Solarstone makes my point actually. You have explained on the edit page what the problem is. Far too many tags are added that automatically refer to the talk page, but the editor adding the tag has not said anything on the talk page, leaving later editors to guess what was causing particular offence. IMHO tags that refer to the talk page should automatically open the talk page when they are saved, to remind {force?) the tagger to explain what they mean. Arjayay (talk) 15:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Has nobody else spotted this, or am I just barking up the right tree ? It's wonderfully helpful sometimes when an editor leaves a useful link to a probable copy vio - saves us a lot of work: solarstone. The dom name was taken out in 2004; the article started in 2005. It could be that the article and the web site bumph was "developed" side by side, but even this has to be some kind infringement doesn't it ? As the site doesn't say thats it's a mirror, I think we have to assume it's copyright - I shall tag as such and see what happens - wish me luck. Acabashi (talk) 17:55, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Jumped a bit too soon - the copy vio began May/June 2009. So there is an earlier version to revert to - but even that's flawed. I'll see what happens - ho hum. Acabashi (talk) 18:25, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I see you were correct and the article has been deleted - well done, that's one less to worry about. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:05, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: Los Bravos

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but, I really could not find anywhere on that source that Antonio Martinez has died. I also could not find other reliable sources indicating this. If you can, or somebody else can, then that would be great. I will continue to search. Take care. Tinton5 (talk) 21:01, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I see the problem. His entry has been moved from the 'New Entries' page to '1990' (the year of his death, as reported). Try here [4] instead. I find the 'The Dead Rock Stars' website an accurate and trustworthy source (despite its quirky appearance); although some Wiki editors seem a little sniffy about it. Frankly, in my long experience, it reports more accurately than most news sources. Hope this helps.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh man, you know, I thought about that, but I was not sure. Thanks so much for pointing this out ! I feel stupid. Tinton5 (talk) 21:18, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Your excellent referencing

Hi - I'm working on reducing the backlog of category:BLP unreferenced articles and I chanced upon your name. Wow man you reference your articles soo well - its refreshing to see someone who makes my life easier. Mark^Dask 09:31, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. In an environment where everyone works alone, it is sometimes not easy to gauge the effect you are having. Your kind comments come as a very nice surprise. Many thanks,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

A quick look if you could please

Hi Derek. You added to the article (Selfish Cunt) some time ago, so I'd appreciate a quick look to see if you, from your extensive knowledge, have anything further to add to the thing... revert anything you think fit. I saw this one in my random patrol and just couldn't resist it. Many thanks. Acabashi (talk) 17:15, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello again. I do not have anything to add, over and above that which I edited in earlier. Apart from the brief chart appearance, and possibly the national newspaper article, frankly this outfit teeter on the 'non-notable' setting. You have done the right thing in removing some of the unsourced stuff, although sentences remain that seem to be opinionated rather than having any source. I have not bothered to check on-line for anything, but I notice a couple of edits have occurred since yours, which do nothing but slew the piece further towards POV.

My wife's mother died yesterday, so I do not have much time at present.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that Derek - take as long a time out as you need. Some things are more important than others. Look after yourself and your family. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Guy, you're a real good egg. Mabel was 91 and counting, so in cricketing parlance she had a damn good knock. To give one example, she was in Jersey throughout the German occupation and returned to the UK after World War II weighing four stone at the age of 26. She raised seven kids during that time and the years following - my wife was the youngest of them, born in 1952. We think we had it tough.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:17, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

An inspiring life Derek. Sorry for you and your's loss. Acabashi (talk) 03:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Johnny Pearson

Please could you give some hints on the Johnny Pearson page, you have referenced. There is some serious research here but it seems there are problems with the formattting.

Thanks

203.39.34.76 (talk) 01:27, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Updated concern ***

Johnny Pearson appears to of died last Sunday. My respect for Mr Pearson is huge and want only for now his memory to have a good article. Can you list some suggestions on better wiki for this. There is much more to tell in the future. Regards 203.39.34.76 (talk) 02:41, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Generally, you need to read the editing guidelines at Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. In addition, follow Wikipedia:Manual of style instructions, or look at a featured article, such as Bob Dylan, for ideas as to how to present information in a neutral and balanced manner.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:58, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Your recent work on John Mitchell (musician)

... in December I see you added his full name "John-Cory Christian Mitchell". This information is gold dust to us at Bandtoband.com where we have his name as "John-Christian Mitchell".

Just so we can double-check this information, where did you come by it?

Many thanks if you can clear this one up. --Matt Westwood 09:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

The fact is that I simply duplicated information from the article's information box into the main article. I assumed good faith from the previous addition here - [5]. Sorry that I can not help you any further.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:15, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Good call - many thanks. I can't track down the original poster of this change but from the nature of other changes made from the same anonymous portal gives me to understand that there's some local knowledge there, so I'm trusting it. Thx for yr help. --Matt Westwood 08:56, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Service award level

There has been a major revision of the the Service Awards: the edit requirements for the higher levels have been greatly reduced, to make them reasonably attainable.

Because of this, your Service Award level has been changed, and you are now eligible for a higher level. I have taken the liberty of updating your award on your user page.

Herostratus (talk) 07:17, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

*^£(_))^&&%!

See Deaths in 2011.  :( Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:26, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Eeee, poor old Fred. He'd not been well for some time. Rather messes up the song title !

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:53, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Marino Marini

I've replaced the source. It's a fan site - is that reliable? If anyone has a print source, great. Marshall46 (talk) 13:15, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

No, not really. Most fan sites are notoriously unreliable, and normally user-generated without any overall editorial input. For more information, and guidance, please see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:48, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Accepted. It's the only information I have been able to find. The article on Italian Wikipedia has no sources at all. There seems to be nothing in print readily available. I suggest the article is left with the tag until it can be improved. Marshall46 (talk) 10:51, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The Migil 5

Can you track down any birth and death dates? I can't find anything at all. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

No, I haven't got anything on this outfit. You have done well to unearth what you did - nice article. I added a reference for the chart placings. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:24, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I could add a discography, but how many obscure B-sides by failed British 60s bands do people really need to know about?! Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:45, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Awww, I weally wike obscure 1960s b-sides, invariably titled "I Wuv You" or variants thereof. But of course, as ever, you are right - less is more. Frankly, for someone who has followed/studied pop music all my life, I can not recall anything about the Migils. Which probably says a great deal. Actually, both Nero and the Gladiators plus the Moontrekkers fall into the same category. Joe Meek connections perhaps, or more probably clones thereof. On a completely unrelated topic, apart from the timeframe, I must ask my dearest if she could upload a photo of me on to my Wiki page ('cos I'm hopeless and can't do it myself). Circa 1963, dressed in my Hull Kingston Rovers bobble hat and scarf, it should really thrill the masses. Bearing in mind it is in colour (the excitement mounts already), it may knock your wigwam into the shade !?! Lovely weather here, the domestic cricket season less than a month away and, despite the forthcoming funeral, life is swimmingly good... I'm bound to get squished by a runaway tractor. All the best,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 01:44, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Don't look at those sources too closely! Best I could do though.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:16, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, I've seen far worse (and I guess so have you). I have lost track of the amount of times I have seen Twitter, YouTube, Facebook or even IMDb cited in various articles. You've done well considering the passage of time, and the relative lack of notability for these outfits. I've counter-balanced slightly by adding the trusty British Hit Singles & Albums. I must dig out for you some more old timer pop stars without articles ! Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:37, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

And I'd forgotten that someone needs to go back to The Rockin' Berries. Are there any more like that, which need "resuscitating" after the copyvio fracas (which all seems to have gone very quiet now). Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Hell, I'd forgotten the Rockin' Whatsits too, and I think they are/were on my watchlist. When articles are 'edited' (polite word; mainly meaning degraded or vandalised, or bequeathed with copious fancruft bollocks) so infrequently, they can drop below my radar. The 'fracas' was such a while ago now, that I can't remember any specific article needing mouth to mouth off the top of my head - except, of course, Joe Jackson (previous communication refers). Seems strange to me when there was such a brouhaha at the time, how it all appears to have been (thankfully) swept under the carpet. Back to my usual gripe - there are too few resources (good editors) to manage an ever growing pile of dross. Mind you, I do continue to feel to this day, that the copyvio exercise was a oversized, bloated sledgehammer to crack a puny, ickle nut.

Whatever, moving on. Nelson Keene, The Joy Strings and Dick Jordan are the latest trio of delights seemingly without an article that I throw your way. Also, probably much more in your line of interest, do you know anything worth adding to Lou Johnson ? I had a bit of a go at it, but... Saluté,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, I'll bear them in mind - though my first reaction, apart from the Joy Strings who I do remember, unfortunately, is - who the hell were Nelson Keene and Dick Jordan?? Bugger, I'll have to go and find out now. But, if you want a real magnum opus, cast your eyes over John Walker (musician). Drop me an email (via my user page) and I'll tell you a story! Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:30, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

How about Peter Jay and the Jaywalkers (1962), Ronnie Harris (1954), Iain Gregory (1962) and Dorian Gray (1968) ? All UK one-hit wonders in those years - and you've not done Dick Jordan yet. What the hell is matter with you ? By the way, my darling Tykes got off to an inaugral 2011 victory this week, and I'm off to Headingley on Thursday for the opening home County Championship hooley against Der-um, der-um, der-um der-um der-um. My dearest and I will be truly nithered but happy - summer's coming ! Regards,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:33, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I might as well throw at you Stuart Gillies (1973 - "Amanda") and Wayne Gibson (1964 & 1974 - "Kelly" and "Under My Thumb"), whilst the mood takes me. That lot will keep you out of trouble. We've off to dear old Trent Bridge tomorrow where I can confidently predict that, over the next four days (or less), my precious Tykes will get a major stuffing from Notts. It's a grand old life, if you can stand the hammerings. Hope you are well. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:42, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, missed your earlier post - I'll see what I can do (if they meet my personal "notability" / "do I care?" criteria, that is!) Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:36, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

You could try Horace Faith, Tony Etoria, or perhaps most promisingly, The Dowlands. I know you have nothing better to do !

P.S. Or even The Dennisons - yet another primeval Merseyside band. Incidentally, I saw Jools Holland this evening in concert at Bridlington Spa; with Gilson Lavis, Ruby Turner, Rico Rodriguez and ..... Sandie Shaw (she's still drop dead gorgeous) - pure heaven !!

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Jimmy Powell

Do you know any more about this guy? Judging by the birth and death dates given there, he must have been quite a prodigy! But, seriously, if you have any info about him pre-1961 or post-1973 it would be useful - I feel a short article coming on! Notability should be established through the Rod Stewart connection, I think, and there are various other online sources, but he seems to have disappeared after the early 70s. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:17, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Wow, he did a lot in two years - particularly impressed that he issued records before he was born !?! Well, Guinness Rockopedia states "(Rod) Stewart worked as a gravedigger and undertaker before joining R&B outfits Jimmy Powell & The Five Dimensions in 1963 (on harmonica and vocals), then The Hoochie Coochie Men in 1964." But apart from that, I've drawn a blank from my own library. No UK chart presence. I do know the name though, but it will not come to me as to quite why I do (apart from Rod the Mod connection)..... Ahhhh (Brumbeat.net article), it's the Rockin' Berries connection AND he played, with at least seventeen others who claimed to do so, the harp on Millie's "My Boy Lollipop". That's notability sorted, but otherwise I can't help further. I guess he just drifted away from music in the early 1970s (lack of success, no label, no money etc.)

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:41, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

PS. More info on pre and post 'fame years' are here - [6] - if you have not found it already. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:02, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

How is it that, of all the sources I'd found (and there's quite a few) I'd managed to miss that one?! Very grateful to you. Off into the garden now, to get a break from all this! Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:18, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Allmusic claiming he was born in 1963, died in 1965 but was still recording in 1969 is Very interesting ...
Don't know if this [7] adds anything? Arjayay (talk) 15:33, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Arjayay - I'd got a very old version of the book that site's derived from, but never realised there was an online version before. Excellent! Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:00, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Nice article on Powell - would not have expected anything less ! However, I totally switched gear and continent, had a beer, and went on a nostalgia trip. Listen to this if you will (probably not completely unknown to you all), but for me "Oh Lord, stuck in Scunthorpe again" - [8]. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 01:04, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Deep end

Hi Derek,

Picking you and your reader’s brains yet again. I have been contributing to this: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gemma Mewse. I am wondering if you have anything in your vast array of information (perhaps too recent?), and knowledge of what is acceptable in band articles, to give your help to, or opinion on, this article. I have been supporting deletion but I’m not dogmatic enough not to change my mind if I’m off-kilter, especially as Gemma Mewse has a real profile out there among her loyal fans, and could well be notable in the non-virtual world, but perhaps difficult to prove in Wikipedia terms. I’m loath to add more to the discussion as it’s all getting a tad over-fruity. A level-headed overview would be appreciated. As always, I am inclined to defer to your better judgment. Best wishes, Acabashi (talk) 00:54, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Hiya. I have not heard of this artist, but looking at the article and the comments at AfD, I can see both sides of the argument. I think it is very marginal, and the forthcoming issue of an album (hopefully on a recognisable label, rather than a self release) might sway the case further towards notability. Frankly, I do not feel strongly enough either way to pass comment at AfD. "I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not too sure". Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Tom at Tut's

Hi - since you've contributed to the Tom McRae page and are clearly an experienced wikipedia person, I'm wondering if you can help me sort out a bit of a mess I've made. I tried to add info about the new live album and link it to a new page on the album. I was in a bit too much of a hurry to get it done though and mistakenly called the new page Tom at Tuts instead of Tom at Tut's. I don't know how to change the title of the page, so I've had to take the apostrophe out of the name on Tom's page as well as King Tut's Wah Wah Hut's page where I thought I'd give it a mention. Can you help? Thankyou! Kapercaillie (talk) 22:30, 14 April 2011

In Derek's absence - the lazy sod hasn't been here for 24 hours!! - I've moved it for you. All you needed to do is click the "Move" tab at the top of the page and fill out the details. Cheers, Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:55, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, that's interesting - apparently I replied to you 35 minutes before you asked the question. I know I can be quick on the draw but...  ?? Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:57, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Thankyou Ghmyrtle, you are a total star :-) Kapercaillie (talk) 16:36, 15 April 2011

You OK?

I only ask because you often put up a banner when you're away. Hope you're out enjoying the sunshine! Feel free to check out my latest "masterpiece" when you get back - interesting story! Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:08, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm fine thanks. We've been to Headingley to watch Yorkshire CCC play Durham these past four days. Lovely weather on the last couple of days, more like summer than early spring, but we got well beaten. I do usually put a banner up, but I ran out of time before departing. Fascinating story on Bobby Jameson (although I must confess, I've never heard of him) - that must have taken some researching ! Thanks for helping Kapercaillie out, whilst I was indulging in the seedy side of Leeds. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 19:35, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Good to hear it. The Jameson story is fascinating, although his blog doesn't half go on a bit! Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:46, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

... now linked to by the man himself. Always a cause for mild celebration when that happens! Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it proves we are sometimes worthy of trying our best !

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 12:41, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Small Faces

Hi Derek! Recently I cleaned up and fully referenced the Small Faces article. Here is the previous article before I started cleaning and after. Do you mind reading? Thanks in advance. ~ Elitropia (talk) 08:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Elitropia. I was, fairly recently, ruminating with Ghmyrtle about the lack of dedicated Wiki music editors, wondering why activity in this area seemed to be mainly vandalism or the addition of hogwash. Then you turn on a light in the darkened attic - well done ! The Small Faces article is not perfection - which one is - but the vast improvement is there for all to see. Gather some disciples and spread the word. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the positive comment, Derek : ) ~ Elitropia (talk) 08:01, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

When you're back....

...have a look at this site. I hadn't seen it before - hours of fun! Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:23, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Oooh yeah, a trip down memory lane. I have had a quick glance, but I will spend longer wading through this one at some point. It is a new one on me too. Not too sure about its copyright credentials though ! On a vaguely similar style, have you come across this one before ? Another mine of useless information for the sad, needy and desperate (me). Moving on again; truly sad, but not unexpected, news about John Walker - did you get any feedback vis-a-vis your sterling efforts on his Wiki article ?

Actually, whilst I remember, we are off on our travels again this week to Headingley, and then to Pontcysyllte a week on Friday, so if I am not about on Wiki, do not assume the worse. Actually do, I'll probably over indulge in sherbet and fallen in the wa-ater. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Where do people dig up all this info from? Which reminds me, I must clear out all those 70s magazines from the garage sometime! Yes, I've had a couple of messages from John Walker's people - glad we could do our bit by getting some reliable info up in time. Don't fall off the aqueduct - are you going along it, or just underneath? Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, it could be both if I lose my footing ! My dear old friends live in Pontcysyllte (the hamlet that is, not on the bridge), so we are staying there. My dearest and I have walked across said aqueduct a couple of times before, which is an experience and a half, as I guess you know. We are booked, with said friends, on a real ale train journey on the Llangollen Railway over that weekend, so I am hoping that my lovely lady reminds me to keep the beer and vertigo events separate. I am pleased that you could put John Walker's article on the right track. As far as the old-time info is concerned, blimey - we worry that we are wasting our lives away. Sleep well,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Right - after this little lot - Kingsize Taylor and the Dominoes, Derry and the Seniors, Howie Casey - I think I need a break! Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:56, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

A long lie down is definitely required. You must have the investigative powers of Sherlock Holmes !

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:55, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Robert Calvert

Derek - do you have a DoB for Robert Calvert Hawkwind's former poet/vocalist?

• Allmusic just says 1945
• The introduction to his book of poems Centigrade 232 just says 1945
• The Dead Rock Stars Club [9] says 4-9-1944 (US format) = 9 April 1944
• True Knowledge [10] (whoever they are?) gives 9 March 1945
  

I've reverted an IPs change to 9 March 1945 as it contradicted the reference cited in the article - the Dead Rock Stars Club.
However, I suspect the introduction to his poems (issued 11 years before he died) probably got the year right - albeit it doesn't give a date.
Thanks - Arjayay (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I have 9 April 1944. I would tend to trust the Dead Rock Stars Club - actually (I do not know for certain, because I've never listed my source(s)) it is possible that DRSC is the very reference point that I eventually succumbed to. As ever, it is sometimes difficult to be sure, but without a decent newspaper obituary available on-line, I do not know what else to really trust - so many sites are mirrors of Wikipedia. I hope this helps, old boy. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 18:59, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Deepest Blue

Hello Derek,

While I appreciate your effort to keep Wikipedia tidy, there is a problem with the current official deepest blue website link, It is not a link to Deepest Blue Official website, this is the closest official website : http://www.deepestblue.tv/.

I was merely trying to add relevant information.

Everything is documented and has relevance to the article, if you believe some of it is written poorly, I'll be glad to change it, links and press releases for the band have been taken from relevant sources.

If there's anything you can do to help that would be much appreciated since my Wikipedia skills are obviously no match to yours...

Thanks, Mblackuk (talk • contribs) 01:05, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello there. There are a number of issues here. Firstly, the question of the suitability of 'external links' is covered at WP:LINKSTOAVOID. I would suggest that generally the present external links provided for Deepest Blue are reasonable, whilst those for Matt Schultz are not. Without checking every one, I do immediately note links to Facebook and MySpace, whilst Heartbreak (M'Black song) is clearly an internal, not external link. Secondly, your user name suggests a close connection to Schultz - in which case you need to be aware of Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Thirdly, and I mentioned this before on your talk page, it is important that Wikipedia is seen as a neutral, unbiased encyclopedia, and is not slewed by being used as a means of promotion nor a repository of links.

There is also the pertinent issue of providing reliable sources to provide evidence of any edited text. This is particularly important for biographies of living persons. These are largely missing for the Schultz article, which currently teeters on the purely promotional rather than verifiable fact.

I do fully accept that you are not well experienced in the ways of Wikipedia; but it might be an ideal opportunity to enrich yourself with some of its guidelines and editing notes. Ultimately they are there to assist, and specifically to help those with less knowledge of the workings of Wiki to understand what is required of editors.

I also appreciate you are trying to do the right thing here, and that is very much to be encouraged. Too often vandalism, and the insertion of complete poppycock and/or unsourced opinion, truly blights Wikipedia music related articles. Happy editing.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:35, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Music of the United Kingdom

What do you think? Worthwhile or not? Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:41, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

I did not even know it existed, which might say more about the project than it does about me. Frankly, it seems great in principle but, although my own user page claims yours truly's participation in both {User Wikiproject Rock music} and {User WikiProject Punk music}, I have no idea what they are really about. Which definitely says more about me, than them! I think I am happy working alone, with one or two sounding boards, such as your good self, to help me along the way. To be truly honest, I think my presence is splattered across most UK music articles (I'm not boasting, it's pathetic in some ways), but to my knowledge, no-one directly from any of the projects has asked my opinion on anything. This seems to indicate they can do without me, and me without them.

Put it another way, and to crudely paraphrase Groucho Marx - "I do not wish to be a member of any club that will have me as a member".

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

June 2011

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Mick Ronson, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you! -- Yannis A. ^✆|☑ 14:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

With all due respect, should you care to look at my editing history, you will see that I have been here over five and a half years, and made over 40,000 edits. Most of these to music based articles. I am well aware of editing etiquette. The previous edit I removed was unsourced (and seemingly a copy-vio to boot), and merely duplicated sourced information already existing in the Mick Ronson article. In other words, it was 'constructive'. Please be more careful in the future in making accusations.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:14, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

The Big Three (musical group)

Greetings! Do you happen to have any information on the birth details of the members of The Big Three? Details were added in this edit by an IP, long since disappeared, back in 2007, and I haven't been able to track down any sources. I'm thinking of putting together a stub on Brian Casser, of Cass & the Casanovas etc., and there seems to be some confusion as to whether he was born in Liverpool, or in Newcastle as the article says. Doesn't life lead us down some overgrown and narrow byways??!! Any info welcome as usual! Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:46, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Drawn a blank I'm afraid. I suspect that the anon may have been one of their number (three and considerably more), or closely affiliated thereto, so the birth details may well be correct. Also, whilst Liverpool may seem obvious, I favour the latter as Newcastle is a highly unlikely mistake. Which is hardly a decent Wiki style reference, but I do not hold anything better. Apart from three aces; which may well beat your royal flush. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 12:41, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Ooh! Thank you!! A spinning one!!! - never had one of those before!!!! What have I done to deserve this? Seriously, I'm very grateful that the little that I do here does get noticed - although part of me sometimes wishes that someone would do something here that annoys me sufficiently to compel me to get more of a life elsewhere.... (Not tempting fate, of course!) Anyway, muchas gracias again.  :-) Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:57, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, you received two complimentary comments regarding some flamingo or another, after my posting (proving it is not just me), and continue to 'tirelessly' beaver away, trying to improve and enhance this farcical encyclopedia. Plus, you told a bot (whatever that is) that it was talking bollocks - priceless. We're off to North Marine Road Ground, Scarborough tomorrow, to probably witness another Tyke thrashing. Actually we saw the England women's cricket team at the County Ground, Derby, last weekend. They are really impressive. Not just cricketing skills - check out Charlotte Edwards, Lydia Greenway, Isa Guha and Sarah Taylor. Good looking women... apparently... I did not notice at all, of course, someone had to point it out to me. Best wishes,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:17, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Re:Judas Jump

The Allmusic source is a good one, and the fact the band contains members who are clearly notable themselves tips the balance. The article I deleted was very minimal; I would have no objection to you creating a new article. J Milburn (talk) 22:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Et voilà - Judas Jump. Thanks - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:04, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Why did you delete my Nazareth edit?

That was factual information, I'm just deciding how I'm going to source these history books while looking at proper AP sourcing. Why did you delete my work?

Derek Roberts A.P.A.S.C.I. Chapter President Northwoods Regional Vice President Adirondacks Global Accounts Manager CEO, Multiplex Theatres Inc. Vice President, Jason McGillicutty LLC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.84.51.29 (talk) 22:57, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

DFTT - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:02, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Freda Payne

Don't know if this has been raised with you before, but do you have anything definitive on Freda Payne's year of birth? Most sources that I can find seem to say 1945, but there's a long-running, slow-moving (usually), edit war on her article that seems to fluctuate between 1945 and 1942. Can you shed any light on it? She may well have cut three years off her age at some point, but on the other hand she is a living person, so we tread with caution! Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:04, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Just got home from a few days away at cricket at the Rose Bowl. My records show 1942 for Payne, but I do not have a verifiable source to hand. I suspect it is correct though, for the usual showbiz reasons. I will have a look around for something more definitive in the next couple of days - if I can find anything before you. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:08, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back! Yup, I'm sure you're right. Following discussion at WP:BLPN I've taken the radical step of adding a footnote. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:13, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Yer, I always had you down as a radical !?!

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:26, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Quotation sections

Quotations sections were deprecated a long time ago. Please stop adding them to articles. The correct course of action would be to add the quotation to Wikiquote, then add a Wikiquote template to the external links section of the article. Yworo (talk) 20:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

A couple other observations: we do not put place of birth after the subject name with the date of birth. Moving the place of birth there is incorrect. Don't do it. We don't use the "cquote" template for quotations unless they are pull quote, which the quotes you are adding are not. Please take the time to read the Manual of Style and discuss your proposed changes with other editors before going on an "editing project". What you are currently doing is just making work for other editors to correct. If you keep doing it, I will start reverting all your changes which are introducing these style issues into articles. Yworo (talk) 20:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Also, when a person goes by a nickname, the correct way to introduce them in the lead sentence is with the full name with the nickname in quotes before the last name. Thus, for example, Ronald Franklin "Ron" Block is correct and should not be "fixed". Yworo (talk) 21:18, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I suggest ignoring Yworo's opinions about how article are written. For example, he tells you that quotations are "deprecated", but two days ago he twice restored a quotation to an article with no adequate justification: [11], [12]. 69.134.110.78 (talk) 02:36, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

See WP:LONGQUOTE: "Do not insert any number of quotations in a standalone section." We used to allow a standalone quotations section, we no longer do. Quotations should be integrated into the article text. They may not be in standalone sections. Don't listen to the IP, it is ignorant of the Manual of Style. Yworo (talk) 15:35, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I continue to say Yworo doesn't know what he's talking about. He provides no explanation for his own restoring of quotations. In other words, it's OK if he does it, but not OK if anyone else does it. 69.134.110.78 (talk) 15:42, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Cf Ralph Waldo Emerson, banned user. Yworo (talk) 16:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Yworo has once again confirmed he doesn't know what he's talking about. He links an article and adds the words "banned user." First, it makes no sense. What does an article have to do with a banned user? Secondly, he's making personal attacks with no evidence. I've repeatedly requested a checkuser, but he makes no effort to get a checkuser because his accusations are meaningless and he knows it. 69.134.110.78 (talk) 16:08, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

You're stalking me and edit warring. Don't worry, you'll soon be blocked, banned user. Yworo (talk) 16:10, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Seems you have a history of stalking yourself. Go ahead, report it. I want an admin to take a close look at your history of personal attacks, edit warring, and now stalking and talk page harassment. Please ... report it. 69.134.110.78 (talk) 16:13, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

With all due respect to both editors, please continue your bickering elsewhere. You have both made your points, and I have already moved on. Please follow likewise.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 16:15, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Point taken, Derek, and my apologies. Yworo has a history of harassing IPs, and he had his page protected so IPs can't message him about it. Again, my apologies and thanks for your patience. 69.134.110.78 (talk) 16:17, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Minor edits

Please read WP:MINOR - your recent edit at Elvis Costello was not actually minor. For future reference, any edit performed on article text beyond typo correction is not considered minor. Thanks! --Lexein (talk) 00:01, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Overlinking

Hi I removed some of the wikilinks you added to common terms in Mamie Smith in accordance with Wikipedia:Manual of Style (linking)#What generally should not be linked. --BelovedFreak 08:26, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

The Shirelles

Do you want to chip in at Wikipedia:Peer review/The Shirelles/archive1 ? Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:12, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:59, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

The Symbols

Look - it's red!! Formerly Johnny Milton and the Condors, apparently. Off you go.....  :-) Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:19, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, off I jolly well went. For some reason, I have visions of conflict - as per The Honeycombs, The Bachelors, Dave Clark Five, The Ivy League etc. Generally these 1960s group members seem predisposed to interminable quarrelling, ad nauseum. Nevertheless, there it is. Why do I half wonder whether you have led me into a bear trap ? Hell no, you are such a good egg.

Best wishes/fried fishes/spicy dishes. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:59, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

The Rumblers

Surprised there's no article yet. "The Rumblers - named* for Link Wray's Rumble - came from Norwalk, CA, and recorded with Downey Records out of Wenzel's Records up State 42 a few miles in Downey. Founded in 1959 (first gig 1961), they had a hit with Boss on the Downey (local)/Dot (national) labels, made a series of additional singles and an LP, and disbanded in 1965 when guitarist Johnny Kirkland was drafted. They also recorded as the Nylons and the Bel Cantos." - [13]. Thanks. 109.153.197.132 (talk) 08:36, 8 October 2011 (UTC)