User talk:Durova/Scientology arbitration/Jossi evidence

Jossi can't have it both ways

Durova, if I may be allowed to comment here. You say: "Yet that isn’t quite the whole story either. Perhaps there’s a fine distinction to be made here between religion[1] and new religious movement.[2][3] Or perhaps not; Jossi has categorized Prem Rawat’s following as a religion.[4] As early as 2005 Jossi called it a church,[5] and in April 2008 Jossi again proposed sources that call it a religion.[6] Jossi can’t have it both ways."

The fact is that while Rawat's students do not perceive themselves as practising a religion, outside views are fairly unanimous in ascribing a religious nature to his movement. And it is a legal fact that the DLM was incorporated as a church in the U.S. Anyone familiar with the literature on this movement will come up against these contradictions. Editors are usually commended if they bring sources to the table that contradict their personal opinions, or illustrate a variety of views. If Jossi cites a world-leading scholar – Bromley is such a scholar – that calls the movement a religion, contrary to his own views, then that is just good research, reporting significant viewpoints in accordance with their prominence. I am sure you know this, too, but let the effort of what you were trying to do here get the better of you.

Jossi has retired – I hope he may change his mind one day – and Christmas is coming up. Perhaps it is just as well if we all take a rest now. Happy holidays, and see you in these pages in the New Year. Cheers, Jayen466 10:03, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation, Jayen. I wouldn't have included that on the strength of the Bromley citation alone, since you certainly have a good point about that diff. Let's both hope things work out somehow. Every year I wish for peace on earth. Someday we may get there. Durova^Charge! 04:04, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

PatW's comment

In reponse to:

If it takes a Wikipedian of Cirt's dedication to withstand Jossi's wikihounding, then how many other editors did we lose altogether?

You lost me for one PatW (talk) 00:16, 22 December 2008 (UTC)