User talk:Grutness/archive38

This file is an archive - please do not add new discussion here - add it to my Talk page

Health

Hello

Just visiting the project after a long, long abscence... I was both surprised and saddened to learn about your condition. You have been a great contributor and the one user who made me belive there still was such a thing as decent people around these parts. I sadly couldn't find the patience to keep fighting against detractors and idiots, but I am deeply impressed that you held out for this long. It's an impressive feat to do in the name of knowledge. I hope you are doing really well and recovering steadily! - Mark, Sn0wflake (talk) 04:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Mark - yup, I'm still plugging away, but understandably I work more on actual editing of articles rather than trying to work behind the scenes. My health's not too bad now, but I think it's as well for me to avoid the stress of the bureaucracy for the time being at least. It's also given me a chance to step back and reassess things (including by Wikiholism!). Good to see you back, even if it's just for a visit! Grutness...wha? 07:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Hadnt read the green part at the top until now

Very concerned to hear about that - trust you are ok at the mo - theres an ip or two who wanna play at the dunedin people list - cheers SatuSuro 04:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Thats a relief mate about your health - staying up late editing too much has taken a toll at times but hey nowhere near what you decribe! - I hope the FA process goes ok - SatuSuro 12:50, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I just heard about your health issues. I'm sorry to hear about that. Please get better soon. Viriditas (talk) 03:23, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Stubstuff

Template:Plazadesoberanía-geo-stub

Do not you know that Ceuta and Melilla are not "plazas de soberanía"? They form a part of Spain, they are not subordinated to Spain because THEY ARE SPAIN. Your mistake and the mistake of this Wikipedia is causing many confusion. These declarations of Juan José Imbroda, the President of the Autonomous City of Melilla are very evident (in Spanish):

encuentro que tuvo lugar el día 17 de mayo de 2007 en elmundo.es (question 6th // pregunta 6):

SPANISH

-Pregunta 6. Presidente, ¿por qué no se ceden las Islas Chafarinas, Alborán y Alhucemas a la Ciudad Autónoma de Melilla? Eso de "plazas de soberanía" está muy anticuado. Creo que se debería aumentar el territorio de la ciudad incorporando esas islas que no forman parte de ninguna otra autonomía (exceptuando Alborán, que está en la provincia de Almería). El peñón de Vélez de la Gomera para Ceuta.

-Respuesta: Melilla no es una plaza de soberanía, la denominación de Melilla viene dada en la misma Constitución: es una ciudad como otra cualquiera. Dicho esto, le diré que nosotros tenemos relación con las Chafarinas en algunos campos, y que sería muy interesante lo que usted dice, sobre todo en estas islas, que por sus dimensiones, flora y fauna tienen un interés enorme para conocerse.

"ENGLISH"

-Question 6th. President, why there are not yielded the Islas Chafarinas, Alborán and Alhucemas to the Autonomous City of Melilla? It of "plazas de soberanía" is very antiquated. I believe that it should increase the territory of the city incorporating these islands that do not form a part of any other autonomy (exempting Alborán, which is in the province of Almería). The rock of Vélez de la Gomera for Ceuta.

-Response: Melilla is not a plaza de soberanía, the denomination of Melilla comes given in the same Constitution: it is a city as other one anyone. Saying this, I will say to you that we have relation with the Chafarinas in some fields, and that it would be very interesting what you say, especially in these islands, that as his dimensions, flora and fauna they have an enormous interest to be known.

--Satesclop 00:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Since the Plazas de soberanía are in Spain, I don't see how you can assume that I am implying that they are not in Spain. As to whether Ceuta and Melilla are part of the PdS, that's largely irrelevant given the wording on the templates which makes it clear trhey are for the "Plazas de soberanía and Spanish autonomous cities in North Africa" (my emplhasis). Grutness...wha? 00:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

You do not prevent any more

I made clear to you that Ceuta and Melilla are not "plazas de soberanía". Then, why do you revert me? You are from New Zealand ... what do you know of Spain? Do you believe that this country is Anglo-Saxon and has colonies nowadays? Not, companion, it is UK.

This is a vandalism and this also: because Ceuta is not a "plaza de soberanía", why do you eliminate the word "Spain"?, Why do you eliminate the map?, etc.

If there are stubs of Andalusia, Extremadura, La Rioja, Canary Islands, Aragon or Castile and León, why there can no be categories of the rest of Spanish autonomies? This discussion is absurd. You should occupy yourself of more important things, and things that you know, and you should not sabotage the good work of others. Satesclop 20:04, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Huh? Did you read anything that I wrote before? And what has me being in New Zealand got to do with anything? Ceuta and Melilla are Spanish autonomous cities irrespective of where you are. Grutness...wha?

On the Catalonia-geo-stub template

Hello Grutness,

I've noticed that User:Satesclop has been doing some mess with several Spanish geographical templates. In particular he has managed to have your approval to change the picture in Template:Catalonia-geo-stub. He seems to have some interest on using the map in file:Wikiproyecto Cataluña.png instead of that in file:Catalonia-geo-stub.PNG. However, I would like to bring your attention to the discussion in Template talk:Catalonia-geo-stub where, besides another issue on the orientation of stripes, we proved that the correct flag is the one showing 4 red stripes, not just 3 as in the picture Satesclop is trying to use (see also Coat of arms of Catalonia). Therefore, I suggest follow one these solutions: either (i) we restore the template with the picture showing just the Catalan flag as a good solution brought by yourself some months ago, or (ii) we use the picture depicting the map with the correct 4 stripe flag in file:Catalonia-geo-stub.PNG. Please let me know your opinion about it. Many thanks in advance for your attention. --Carles Noguera (talk) 10:21, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:County Fermanagh geography stubs

Understand the position, but not exactly a logical rule, as stubs would disappear as articles are improved. Maybe this is why County Armagh geog stubs number only 55. best wishes. Ardfern (talk) 10:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Intelligence in Wikipedia Project

Since you know more about stubs than anyone else, I was wondering what you thought of Daniel S. Weld's talk?[1] He briefly touches upon stubs at the end, and his proposal for dealing with them sounds very interesting. Weld's talk, which was given in 2008, says that 44% of all articles are stubs. What do you think about the stub project getting more involved in automation, either by giving editors the tools and data to expand the articles, or allowing bots to do the work? Obviously, I'm not talking about stub sorting, but the next step, expanding stubs. Viriditas (talk) 03:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Since I only have dial-up, I haven't been able to see that talk (it would take me the best part of a day to download it), so forgive me if I get the wrong end of the stick as far as what is being suggested is concerned. Yes, there are a large number of stubs - though in some areas I'm starting to see a very slight decline in numbers. It's probably the case that the number overall is still going up, but it may be that the overall proportion is starting to drop. I think if any automation's going to be done, it's not really the work of the stub project, which as you imply is for stub sorting - and has enough trouble simply coping with that task. There used to be a separate project for stub creation and expansion at one time, IIRC, but because it involved such a wide range of different topics and areas of expertise, it didn't work that well. It might well be something that other wikiprojects - one which have a large number of stubs in their topic, say - would find useful, though, either individually or in the form of an overarching project (similar to the projects involved with wikifying articles or the like). Grutness...wha? 05:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

stub type for Puerto Rico NRHPs

Hi, you suggested to me recently that i use state-specific geo-stubs for place articles i create (which I sometimes do in the process of working on NRHP list-articles). For articles on individual NRHP sites, I have been using state-specific NRHP stub templates, as those are supported by Elkman in the NRHP tools set. Am just now starting on National Register of Historic Places listings in Puerto Rico, which has about 300 listings deserving wikipedia articles. But there seems to be no Template:PuertoRico-NRHP-stub, as i find when i start Las Cabanas Bridge. I do see there is Template:PuertoRico-geo-stub. I guess i should just use nonspecific Template:NRHP-stub for now, and let stub-sorter editors address. Please advise if i should do otherwise. Thanks! P.S. Hope you feel better. This is meant to be a low-key, non-stressful topic.... :) doncram (talk) 23:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for getting it set up. Have been happily creating lots of PR stubs, probably will surpass 200 soon, as it seems to be helpful for this NRHP list-article to create a stub for every entry (not usually the case for other state/district NRHP list-articles). Cheers, :) doncram (talk) 22:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Gee thanks

For drumming it in again. Yes, I understood the first time. Mensa members are not dense. I obviously disagree with the style manual. Now get over it and deal with more important issues like improving articles. Postcard Cathy (talk) 02:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

What more can we do? It's surprising to find someone doing a lot of useful WikiGnomish work but so stubbornly refusing to follow the guidelines. Well tried. Don't get stressed about it! PamD (talk) 07:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Stubs - trying once again...

I've left another comment on Cathy's page here. Quite where to go next I'm not sure, as ANI didn't help much. Perhaps RfC - but even so, "An RfC cannot impose involuntary sanctions on a user, such as blocking or a topic ban; it is a tool for developing voluntary agreements and collecting information.", so it can just be ignored. But I don't see why one person's choice to ignore the guidelines should be allowed to cause extra work for everyone else, so I think I'll take this further, and that would seem to be the next step (all the other steps seem excluded, as it's not a dispute between 2 editors, not a content dispute, etc). PamD (talk) 09:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Nopetro and {{bartending-stub}}

Hi Grutness. I'm very sorry to hear about your illness, but I'm glad that you are doing better now. I know first-hand how Wikipedia can take quite a toll on your health and non-wiki life. I took several months off in 2007 after dedicating countless hours to improving the Mixed Drinks articles (a topic I have very little personal interest in). In stub sorting, I'm sure that you do encounter that other 1% quite often. I do not believe that Nopetro is in that 1%. I think English is not his primary language (though I haven't asked), thus following guidelines you can't necessarily read at a native level is always more difficult. He has seemed eager to work collaboratively with me in the past, so I have offered to mentor him and to help him work within the established system.

To be sure that I am giving current and valid advice, please read my response on the discussion of {{bartending-stub}}. Not so much about the relative merits of keeping or deleting it, but my introductory part where I agree with you. Please make sure that I am thinking straight before I go and mentor someone the wrong way. My knowledge of stub sorting is pretty much all from early 2007, and most things on Wikipedia have changed in that time. Stub sorting probably has, too. If there is anything in particular that you think I (and perhaps also Nopetro) should read or brush up on, I'd appreciate you pointing that out for me, too.

As to the relative merits of bartending-stub, here is something I wrote on Pegship's talk page, but it might help you see how I envision the stub being used. Apparently there needs to be some ongoing discussion about it with the other WikiProject members. :-)

I have left historical information about the template as well as how it is used both here and by Wikibooks editors for the Bartending Guide there (which has a fluid, back and forth relationship with Wikipedia articles). The stub sorting template is highly useful to help us spot stubs here that might be better as part of the Guide, and also to see where we have information that can be excerpted back into Wikipedia (assuming we can located appropriate third-party sources). The bartending-stub is not exactly your usual stub sorting category/template, because of that close interaction between Wikibooks and Wikipedia. The choice of deleting that template will have adverse consequences both here and there. Please consider that, and the fact that there are around 25 articles in the category now, and that it is neither about a generic occupation, nor about a particular mixed drink, but about the entire genre and (dare I say?) bartending "mystique". Can you imagine any Old West saloon without it's barkeep? Let alone, can you imagine any Old West town without a saloon? Closer to home, can you imagine any typical Friday or Saturday night in a city without its dozens of bars, taverns, pubs, and nightclubs? And what is inside all of those? Bartenders, barbacks, cocktail waitresses, back-of-house runners, hostesses, cooks, bouncers, disc jockeys, security guards, valets, beer, wine, spirits, non-alcoholic mixed drinks, cocktails, garnishes, glassware, bartending tools and equipments, point of sale systems, drink mixers, ice, and so much more. ALL of those fall within the bartending genre. To be accurate, all of the stubs related to what I just said could be rolled into bartending-stub, since it is the general topic that all the others are subsets of. It is an occupation, a location, a facility, a drink, a social phenomenon, and sometimes stain on society. I hope you understand why I feel that it is not a category that should be deleted. And in case you are wondering, I have no COI except for my editing history, because I don't work in the industry, rarely drink, and hardly ever even go to a bar. I just happened to start my time here at Wikipedia by editing the List of cocktails and then devoted the next three months of my life to improving the entire section. (Followed by about a 6-month burnout and near Wiki-retirement after that experience.) I hope that you will agree with my insights and change your !vote to keep instead of delete, or even withdraw the nomination now that you have a better understanding of its history, its use and usefulness, and the increase in number of articles listed therein. Thanks.

Perhaps you can clarify something for me. It seems, based on some discussions I have read, that this stub type has been previously deleted and that the current discussion is about deleting a recreated version of the deleted one. If that's true, then I am surprised. I never received a notice about a pending deletion on my talk page. It might have been added to the WP:BAR talk page, but I must have missed it if it was there. So, please keep an open mind in the discussion and don't be prejudiced because it's about deleting an unauthorized recreation. As far as I know, this is the first time it's being discussed, and I think that all the current stakeholders in the template are currently involved in the discussion (which I'm not sure they were before).

I also think that we should kill off cocktail-stub once and for all. It was supposed to have been killed off back in 2007 after the change to mixed-drink-stub, but apparently that never happened. Cocktails are a subset of mixed drinks, but not vice versa. They are pretty redundant, but mixed drinks includes some articles that would not otherwise have a category. Removing cocktails is no problem since mixed drinks covers them all. Removing mixed drinks would be much more problematic. Keeping them both seems silly. I will nominate it with pleasure if you agree. Thanks! —Willscrlt ( “Talk” ) 08:11, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. As to Nopetro, since I already had established rapport through some earlier discussions, I felt duty-bound to offer assistance, and I am happy to do so. I hate seeing a potentially good editor leave in frustration. He's banging his head on a lot of barriers right now, and if I can help, so much the better. It's my way of giving back to the community after all the guidance you and others have given me over the years. Karma? :-)

As to bartending-stub... That's a shocker. I have memories of those discussions, but reading back through the ones you dug up (you have excellent research skills!), I see that my memory of those discussions is quite different from the reality. Human nature, I guess. I also remember them being much more formidable and argumentative (against me, of course). Now they look quite tame and very reasonable. Hehe. Anyway... What do you suggest? Back in 2007 when I was actively editing the Bartending Guide, I did use those tags. I thought I also used them later after my wikibreak, but I've seen how reliable my memory is(n't). Can we perhaps table the discussion pending a formal discussion in WP:WSS (I say "formal" as opposed to "normal", since this would be anything other than "normal" unfortunately)? Then, if the decision in that venue is to not create the stub, it would be seen as a decision to delete/merge/whatever (consensus seems to either be keep or merge, so if WP:WSS says no, then merge would probably be the best option). Highly irregular procedure? Yes. A bad precedent to set? Perhaps. In the best interest of the involved WikiProjects and the editors asking for it to be kept, obviously yes! In the best interest to Wikipedia overall? Dunno. That's why I am asking for your opinion. And, if you think it's do-able, then obviously the opinions of the others discussing it.

I really see bardtending-stubs as something different from mixed drinks or *shudder* occupations. You're probably not familiar with the Bartending Guide (it's gone downhill again since I last edited it and was helping to firm up its structure and organization), and neither was I when I started. I thought it was just a drink recipe book, since that's where all the drink stubs got dumped, er, transwikied. It's actually a book about what it means to be a bartender, what is involved in the day-to-day work of one, the co-workers, the environment, the facilities, the responsibilities, the tools, the alcohols, the recipes (of course), and famous bartenders, bars, and bar-lore. When I see an article tagged bartending-stub, I think of something that fits within that macrocosm, as opposed to mixed-drink-stubs which are a microcosm within the macro. I don't see bartending-stubs being related, except in a small way in a few pages, to occupation-stubs. Yes, an article about a bartender, cocktail waitress, or barback position is about the occupation, but all the rest is really about bartending as a whole. The tie-in with b:Bartending is also obvious then.

That is part of why I don't see a WikiProject banner as being an adequate replacement. The other reason is that when I was actively editing the Guide, I looked at stubs here as candidates to merge into the Guide. I also looked at the Guide to see if I could find sourced material that could be added to a stub here to improve it. Yes, I suppose I could do that with assessments, but that's blurring the very line we are trying to avoid blurring. I'm talking about using it (I think) as it's intended. I know that some of the other WP members have other ideas about its use, but at least from the standpoint of the Guide, I think it is very helpful as-is.

I do feel bad in principle in arguing to keep a stub template and cat that haven't been pre-approved (I learned my lesson!), but I do think they are useful in this case. That's why I thought about maybe running it through the process after the fact for exposure to the regular WP:WSS crowd who may not pay as much attention to deletion discussions. Obviously, it's not going to be the end or the world if it goes away again (after all, I didn't notice for about a year and a half or two that it was missing!), but I think there is a real place for it in the hierarchy of stubs. (As if you couldn't tell from my lengthy discussions, right?) :-) You take care of yourself. I hope I'm not adding any additional stress to you as a result. I want you to know it's not really that big of a deal either way, and I certainly won't take it personally regardless of the outcome. —Willscrlt ( “Talk” ) 09:38, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: 25 to 30 articles. I agree. I haven't even begun to look yet. I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth doing. Would you say that if I found 60 obvious articles that fit there, then there would be a pretty good chance that it would be kept? That would be worth my time and effort. If I track those down and tag them all, and then bartending-stub is deleted, well, that would be upsetting (though I still wouldn't take it personally). :-) In short, if you think it's likely that the effort would be worthwhile for keeping the tag and cat, then I will do so. If not, I won't bother. And I realize your opinion is not a guarantee. —Willscrlt ( “Talk” ) 09:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

FA/DYK

PR of Caversham

I'd be glad to. I started on it about a half-hour ago, and I'll continue with it off and on during the day. I'll post my review to the article talk page. Finetooth (talk) 17:37, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Done and posted to the article talk page. Excellent article. Please let me know if you would like me to take a third look at some point. Finetooth (talk) 21:17, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I do. Finetooth (talk) 04:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Caversham

Best of luck. I noticed some page ranges with hyphens and replaced them with en dashes just now, per the MoS. This may save you a tiny bit of trouble. Finetooth (talk) 03:34, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Grutness, I also hope the nomination is successful. There is a request for shortened footnotes, I'll take care of this using {{harv}} as I did with Dunedin, unless you're covering it? XLerate (talk) 06:09, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for South Dunedin

On May 10, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article South Dunedin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 14:41, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Oberon

Thanks for the detailed review. I think, I fixed everything (see my comments on the review page). Ruslik (talk) 08:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Featured article

Congratulations on getting Caversham, New Zealand to featured status.-gadfium 06:27, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Please accept my congratulations too. I was happy to see the well-deserved star. Finetooth (talk) 16:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations Grutness, nice work. XLerate (talk) 07:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, nice work. You did a fine job. Viriditas (talk) 23:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Otherstuff

Proposed deletion of Dilorom Shermatova

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Dilorom Shermatova, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

Artist with some internet presence, but I can't find any verifiable notability.

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Scott Mac (Doc) 21:39, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I am dunedin

I see this well-formed article has been prodded as a non-notable phrase. You are most likely in a better position than I am to determine whether this is valid. I haven't heard the phrase before myself, but there seem to be a reasonable number of ghits for it. If you rescue it, it should probably be moved to I am Dunedin.-gadfium 22:53, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks like XLerate got there first... may be about time to ask him/her again about adminship, BTW - (s)he's been doing a lot of good work on the NZ-related part of this site. ~``~

liver bird

Hello
I noticed you tidied up a dubious paragraph here. I'm probably not assuming as much good faith as you, as I've move it to the talk page and given the contributors a week to come up with a reference; I hope you don't mind. If there's no response I'll delete it from there as well. Swanny18 (talk) 08:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks: I didn't know if you had something else in mind, but I thought it looked silly where it was (and I hadn't had any chocolate!). Swanny18 (talk) 10:50, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

PS How are you feeling BTW? (I saw your note at the top of the page) I hope you are on the mend...Swanny18 (talk) 10:53, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Brooklands and Brooklands

Hi Grutness, I thought I'd better explain why I chose Brooklands, New Plymouth: If you refer to Brooklands, New Zealand you will see that there are two places called brooklands in Taranaki, the second being a small rural settlement, which would have no practical alternative but to be Brooklands, Taranaki. Of course the latter may never qualify for its own article - I will have to check if it has/ever had its own school etc. dramatic (talk) 02:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Hm. Okay - didn't know about that. Mind you, if you follow the naming conventions to the letter, they should probably be at "Brooklands (suburb of New Plynouth), Taranaki" and "Brooklands (settlement), Taranaki" or something similar. Grutness...wha? 03:06, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I've gone looking for the one "near puniho" and can't find any trace of it, including on Google maps* nor Wises. *Not that I particularly trust Google maps, after all, it shows Surry Hill road as continuing for 10km past its end and going a fair way up the mountain! What was your source for adding it to the disambig page? I will remove it while adding the suburb of Nelson, but will reinstate it if you can provide evidence. dramatic (talk) 03:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of Google maps either. Apparently the two hills on either side of Dunedin's Caversham Valley are "Carlton Hill" (actually Calton Hill) and "Clyde Hill" (Maryhill - Clyde Hill is a tiny area around a former house of that name).As to the Puniho Brooklands, after all this time I can't recall, but possibly via Google. Grutness...wha? 22:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Anguilla national cricket team

Hello. I note that you added a {{POV}} tag to this article last December, but didn't explain why you'd done so. I've written a bit about this on the article's Talk page, as I'd like to do some rewriting of the section in question but don't feel I can go ahead immediately when there's a POV tag there. Loganberry (Talk) 11:33, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for helping this newb out with your additions on the CGAS Borinquen page I created earlier today. TomNativeNewYorker (talk) 00:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Kempinski Hotel Airport Munich

Why thanks! Nice work you're doing too! Sophus Bie ^(talk) 23:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Wootton house

Thanks for the tags. As you are on that side of the Pond, perhaps you can source and expand the thing? I found sources, but nothing good. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 01:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

OOoo. Wrong pond! Dlohcierekim 01:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Gregg's (New Zealand)

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Gregg's (New Zealand), suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

Not Notable

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached.

Curt, grumpy reply posted. Four minutes between starting the article and nominating it! Sheesh. Patrol the older items first, the instructions say. Grutness...wha? 01:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Completely agreed. Shouldn't these people be spending more time adding references and cleaning up articles? Viriditas (talk) 00:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and if that wasn't enough, I see they prodded it too. What is this, a video game? Last time I checked it was an encyclopedia. Viriditas (talk) 00:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Re:Re Prod Greggs

Actually I did a google search and came up with some very notable restaraunts with greggs as part of the name. I couldn't find a single restaraunt named just greggs, which is why I prod'd it instead of speedy.Drew Smith What I've done 01:24, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

My apologies, Cerebos Greggs Ltd. wasn't in the article when I prod'd it, which is notable. And I use huggle to patrol pages, and it shows the most suspicious edits first, not the oldest or newest.Drew Smith What I've done 01:34, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Re:prod

Sorry, about that; will do in the future. I actually was using twinkle so the prod was added after it was expanded, but I didn't see that. At that point it appeared prodable, but now it's fine. Reywas92^Talk 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Dunedin suburb articles

Hi James, Fascinating detail in all the new Dunedin suburb articles, but aren't they (apart from Caversham of course) a bit light on references? I think it's important to set an example for the newbies by referencing as-you-go, which means I tend to write unfinished stubs with references instead :-) dramatic (talk) 03:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations on Caversham, BTW - just saw that it got passed. dramatic (talk) 09:36, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Request for deletion!

Hello, Grutness. Would you be so kind help me deleting my former user/talk_page which goes under the name of User:Mohammed_Lupinga? You have to delete them both (user page and and talk page) cause I am no longer using them at all! I would really appreciate it if you'd help me for that. Thanks in advance. Yours, Muddyb Blast or,--_{Mwanaharakati}^(Longa) 11:59, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry. I didn't know if you 've been rushed to the hospital. So far, I know my request won't be worked out immediately - due to the advice which you've been given by the doctor (I am not quite sure if the doctor gave you that), but I'll wait it, sir, untill you get time to do so... Cheers..--_{Mwanaharakati}^(Longa) 12:32, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice. But I would rather remove the page from being appeared on the public. The worst of all, there's nothing good I did when I was using that account than to edit my user page! In case of that, I'd rather ask for it's deletion!!! Please help me to remove it! By the way, my status's been promoted from being admin to bureaucrat status at there on the Swahili Wikipedia! Cheers..--_{Mwanaharakati}^(Longa) 06:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your superb job. And thanks also for you're congrats... Yes, you said it in a right way (Wikipedia ya Kiswahili - how did you know?) You see it, I am afraid to write many words because I am not pretty good at writing/speaking English! I wish I could write my all concern, but how? Cheers..--_{Mwanaharakati}^(Longa) 09:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. I will my best! And my contribution here on the English, is to add an interwiki towards Swahili Wikipedia!!! Cheers...--_{Mwanaharakati}^(Longa) 12:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The deletion of something

Initially, after seeing you delet my Shirehampton Colts AFC article, I was going to use this message to insult you, but after reading your heart warming thing about your ulcer, I decided not to, and to thankyou instead. No longer shall I be that 1%, but join the 99%. Thank-you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Louisjcm (talk • contribs) 10:18, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! :) Grutness...wha? 00:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)