User talk:Heiser

Hello, Heiser! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! — Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 07:28, 21 July 2008 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Microkernel

That diagram needs to be edited, turned it right side up so the kernel is down and OS services top of it and other applications top of them. You were saying that there is no difference of normal application (example of Open Office) and the OS service because Embedded OS include the application itself. That does not mean that that graph is not right, it just means that we need two graph to tell the difference. Other for normal microkernel OS and other about the microkernel when it is used on embedded OS. The graph what you placed back, shows nonkind information about the OS and system separation and leads user to false information that OS is the whole system and all applications belongs to OS. That false information is important to avoid, so mayby a edit this graph by organising the arrows for better usage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:OS-structure2.svg . One of the problems is that these graphs should be supporting the text and not trying to represent all different OS structures in one. The OS structure is always different when talkin about different OS's like Linux or Windows W2K but article should give basic information how so reader understand the text and can do cross references about the information to understand different cases. The current graph gives half-truth about microkernels what you just placed back, but lies about the other half. Golftheman (talk) 12:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Please fix the monolith-micro-"hybrid kernel" diagram and do not just undo it to version what is not so specific about operating and system border. So do not try to keep misinformation there, but help us to make it better. Golftheman (talk) 14:33, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I attribute your use of somewhat inflammatory terms like "lie", "half-truth" and "false information" to you being a non-native English speaker. However, you should watch your language, people are likely to get insulted by what you are saying.

Regarding the diagram, it is technically correct, and not "half truth". These things are my job, I'm a professor teaching and researching operating systems for many years. In the diagram, everything but the "Application" box is the "OS". But that in itself is a simplification, as the "OS" is more than just the kernel even in systems like Linux or Windows. Linux also has servers running in usermode, called demons, these are part of the OS. You could try to include that in the diagram, but this would most likely lead to more confusion, not less. (And, of course, "hybrid kernels" are a marketing term, not a technical one.) heiser (talk) 04:43, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

L4: german

Die Verbreitung des L4 ist ja phänomenal!

Ich wäre allerdings erfreut, wenn auch die deutsche L4-Seite gelegentlich ein wenig nachgepflegt würde. Mich interessieren vor allem die Entwicklungslinien zum L3, mit dem TÜV SÜD Life Service bis heute erfolgreich arbeitet.

Ich wünsche Glück und gutes Gelingen bei den weiteren Aktivitäten!

Ad.ac (talk) 13:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Danke. Hab mir gerade mal die deutsche Seite angesehen, und da ist wirklich etwas Arbeit nötig. Z.B. wird bei Verifikation VFiasco erwähnt, das als Projekt seit längerem tot ist, dagegen steht das L4.verified Projekt kurz vor dem erfolgreichen Abschluss.

Leider habe ich aber nicht die Zeit, mich auch noch um deutsche Seiten zu kümmern. Aber es wird ja niemand daran gehindert, Informationen aus der englischen Seite auf Deutsch zu übersetzen. Zu L3 weiss ich ohnehin nicht besonders viel. In Dresden gibt es zumindest Leute, die mal damit gearbeitet hatten... heiser (talk) 04:54, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

File:Logo OK-Labs.png

I presume you're talking about File:Logo OK-Labs.png... when you uploaded this you saw the following:

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Even with the "hangon", which was there for about 1/2 hour with no other changes to the image, all images that have the restricted license are deleted as soon as possible. I would suggest that you re-upload the image with the correct templated license {{non-free logo}} (use the previous without the "tl|) and the appropriate Fair Use. Skier Dude (talk) 07:03, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

which I see you've done in the interim.Skier Dude (talk) 07:04, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

History of L4 and Mach

Hi. I see you reverted an edit I made to the "History" section of L4 microkernel family. I made that change after someone stuck a {{fact}} tag on the statement that

This induced developers of Mach-based operating systems to move some time-critical components, like file systems or drivers, back inside the kernel.

I looked at our Mach article and a few documents I have discussing Mach, and it seemed that Mach 1.0 and 2.0 had drivers etc inside the "micro"kernel but they were moved out in 3.0. Was I wrong?

Also, do you have any good sources for this stuff? As well as putting them in the article, I'd love to read them ...

While I'm here, let me summarize the history leading to L4 as I understand it:

• Mach was (is) a portable microkernel with a fairly heavyweight IPC mechanism
• Mach has performance problems
• Jochen Liedtke starts a rethink, using a lightweight somewhat-machine-specific IPC mechanism Liedtke SOSP 93
• Liedtke shows that Grant, Map and Flush are all you need for operations on address spaces Liedtke SOSP 95
• Liedtke and other tweak their design for better performance and other CPUs.

Is this basically right? If not, would you be able to give me any useful links? Thanks in advance — CWC 10:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi,

It is true that Mach moved drivers out of the kernel at some stage, but note that the text (which I may have written a long time ago) talks about "developers of Mach-based OSes", so not necessarily about the official Mach releases. The "facts" tag is justified, but the statement is correct. I'll look for appropriate sources when I get the chance.

In most cases, rather than just kernelising drivers, people moved complete OS servers into the kernel. This is what happened with OSF/1 and NextStep (which lives on as Mac OS X), where a complete BSD kernel was co-located with Mach. To this date, OS X contains Mach, but also BSD in kernel mode, incl drivers (which is I why I have to reboot my box when an upgrade to iTunes is installed).

Your history is essentially right, except L4 has moved on a lot since then...

heiser (talk) 23:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, that clears everything up. That info about OS X is interesting ... and sad, I guess. Cheers, CWC 18:06, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Response on Microkernel Talk Page

Hi, I left a response on the Microkernel Talk Page which you might like to reply to....--Ozhiker (talk) 23:59, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Gernot Heiser-2009.png

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