User talk:Ksy92003/Archive-Aug2007

Stats

Eh, I like the idea. You are making it unique and somewhat good and not copying baseball-reference. I'd still wait out Zscout's conversation (I'll advise him to post it when he's done) Soxrock 11:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, good job. I'm busy on other things and will pitch in on Angel stats later. To avoid conflict, I'll probably start with 2005 and we can meat sometime around the 1986 season (you weren't alive yet, but the season crushed both of our hearts, yours more significantly. Soxrock 11:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I'm sorry the Angels lost to Oakland. Hopefully this doesn't start their annual second-half run Soxrock 11:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply

Hell yeah I like it when people vandalize my page/talk page. Though I'd hardly consider that last post vandalism. But in general I think it's funny.►Chris Nelson 03:24, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Season articles

Ok, just an update for me. I'm almost done adding additional links to these articles, and once I'm done with that, I'll start adding stats, hopefully (I can get off-topic really quick). Thanks Soxrock 16:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It's happening again

Different theatre, same people shouting "Fire!" -Jéské ^{(v^_^v)} 01:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Florida Marlins/Boston Americans

Just an update. I have added prose to 1901 Boston Americans season and 1902 Boston Americans season along with rosters for the 1993-1998 Florida Marlins seasons (with a link on the template pages, I always cite my sources) and I plan to do more. Also, I'll be working on stats. Thanks for your help, and additional help will be appreciated. Soxrock 22:58, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've been trying to work on this in avaliable time, but I can never do something I set myself to, unless it's creating those damn articles. Hopefully I can finally work hard on something, but maybe I need something to motivate me. I'll try to add prose and roster templates later on, but don't bank on it. Soxrock 23:36, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll leave the Angels articles alone then (I've done a couple). I'll work on whatever I actually can stick to Soxrock 23:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Bonds

Are you saying the article is appropriate after he hits 756 but not before?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 06:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

No. he could be slowed by the Clemente illness.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 06:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

AWB

Well, and I'm anticipating hours before a response on this, but, even though I've read the manual, what makes AWB faster? I mean, how can it make my work not as hard? I'm not going to request AWB until I know what an AWB user can tell me about it. Thanks Soxrock 11:09, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the pointers. I could use it, but, heck, 250 edits in 63 minutes (with no editing the same article 5 times or so) is good enough. Either way, I'll be working on standings until tonight, when I'll focus on the player pages again. Again, thanks Soxrock 16:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

UBX you might be interested in

I figured, given all the hell you've been through... -Jéské ^{(v^_^v)} 18:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Soxrock

Before going further, you should read WP:AUTOBLOCK. When a user account is "hard-blocked", the IP addresses used by that account are also automatically blocked for 24 hours. When someone requests to be unblocked and say they were autoblocked, it means that they shared the same IP, at least during that 24-hour period. Soxrock apparently is on a fairly static IP (meaning it rarely changes). When he was blocked for 3RR a few weeks ago, A. Shakespeare was autoblocked! The edit that Irishguy left on my talk page was A. Shakespeare requesting to be released from the autoblock but also proves that A. Shakespeare and Soxrock were using the same IP address within that 24-hour period. —Wknight94 (talk) 11:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you're still having doubts about Soxrock. Here is another edit you might find interesting. One of Soxrock's admitted socks removing an unblock question from User talk:Soxrock with the edit summary "It's expired, the IP I have had a 24-hour block because of MrJiggifly1121". That's basically Soxrock admitting that he was on the same IP as the MrJiggifly1121 account that vandalized his user page. To me the checkuser is unnecessary (which may be why it hasn't been acted on yet) and the only thing left is to determine a proper response. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:31, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Undoing edits and edit summaries

I saw your message to Jaranda about default edit summaries. These are a bit hard to read but once you get the hang of it it's easy to figure out what's going on. In the case of the Eric Gagné edit, take a look at this history entry:

(cur) (last) 20:58, 2 August 2007 Adonice293 (Talk | contribs) (13,439 bytes) (undo)

If you mouse-over the URL, you will see

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eric_Gagn%C3%A9&oldid=148797275

The oldid=148797275 matches the same number in the edit summary of the "undo" edit:

(cur) (last) 01:28, 5 August 2007 Jaranda (Talk | contribs) m (13,631 bytes) (Undid revision 148797275 by Adonice293 (talk)) (undo)

It would be far less confusing if the undo-edit default summary used the time with a hyperlink rather than just the edit number. Feel free to suggest this at the village pump. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 10:52, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that... I had to because I wasn't sure which edit was edit id 148797275 before I checked myself. That's also what confused me... just by looking at the edit summary and seeing that number, I would have to search to see which edit was the one that was being reverted, something that I really don't like to do. But it's not an issue that I'm really concerned about. Thank you, Davidwr. Ksy92003(talk) 16:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Seriously stop

Stop checking all my edits, that is in the verge of WP:WIKISTALK. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 19:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Not really... I'm free to edit whatever I want. And that's the reason why your contributions are visible to the public, so other people can monitor them when they see the need. You have caused some problems in the past, so you're one of the users on my list of users whose edits I monitor constantly. When I look at your contributions and see that you make an edit that I don't agree with, one that I think isn't necessary, then I'm gonna revert it. Per WP:WIKISTALK, that's only an issue if the edits that I'm making are bothering you or preventing the progress of Wikipedia, neither of which I'm doing. Since your contributions are visable to the public, I'm free to look at them and revert your edits if I feel fit. Ksy92003(talk) 19:26, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

And if you do continue this course of behaviour, you will be blocked for edit warring. Nick 19:38, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

In the spirit of WP:CIVIL, may I make a suggestion? For high-traffic articles:

• Ksy92003, when you see an edit of Jaranda's that you think needs editing, ask yourself "would I edit it if I didn't know it was him?" If the answer is no, don't make the edit, it's disruptive and tantamount to stalking. If the answer is yes, ask yourself "is it going to avoid problems if I discuss this on the article's talk page first?" If so, discuss first.
• Jaranda, when you make an edit, ask yourself "is this edit going to bother anyone?," "Is it likely to be supported by every recent editor of this article?" If the answers are "yes it will bother someone" AND "no it won't be universally supported," consider discussing it on the article talk page first. Not doing so can be considered baiting and is disruptive.

This way, it will be pretty clear if Jaranda's edits are bothering only Ksy92003, in which case Ksy92003 should back off, and which edits are Ksy92003 has a legitimate issue with. Most importantly, it will give the other stakeholders in that article a chance to discuss the issue.

I'm not sure what can be done about articles that don't get much traffic.

davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Unblock request

Anyone looking at this, please see the bottom of ANI. Moreschi ^Talk 20:13, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

After "I've been monitoring him", you lost most of us. You should not be monitoring anyone. Even if you aren't harassing Jaranda, you're giving the appearance that you're harassing him. You would not like it if the roles were reversed and the fact you had a completely unrelated dispute with him in the past doesn't help at all. Just stop. —Wknight94 (talk) 20:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Very well. I will take my punishment as handed to me. After this block expires, I will return and I will prove that my "harassment" was nothing more than a coincidence. Should it appear that I continue to harass (notice I said "appear") then I will willingly take a longer punishment if that is what is determined to be my punishment. I apologize for any and all disruption that I've caused today, no matter how unintentional it was. Once my block expires on Monday, I promise that I will try my hardest to avoid any more conflicts. I am changing my philosophy on editing for the time being and won't worry about what anybody else is doing (unless they have a question about anything I'm doing). My primary focus will be creating articles for baseball players that require articles to be written for them, as I've spent a large portion of in the past 24 hours. Even though I'm not going to be unblocked for this, I at least hope that you, Wknight94, believe me when I say that I am extremely apologetic and that my behavior will change come tomorrow, when I am unblocked. I hope that I do get the chance to prove that I wasn't trying to harm Jaranda in any way, and I deeply apologize to him for any problems I may have caused him. But please believe me that I am incredibly sorry and will change my behavior for the best and that I will try to not even accidentally agitate any other user.

I still believe I shouldn't have been blocked because I was warned and didn't bother any other user after the time I was warned for the only time and still was blocked, but I still accept my punishment. I'm sorry for all the users (Jaranda, Wknight94m Moreschi, Nick) that I bothered with this situation and dragged into my issue. I'm sorry, and I can't wait to prove to everybody tomorrow that I am sorry and that I will no longer bother any other user (no matter how unintentional) by my edits. I'm sorry. Ksy92003(talk) 21:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Look I've been an admin for over a year and an editor for two years. I could mentor you to become a better editor if you want, or even as a future admin. You need to be knowful of your mistakes though. Reply here or in my talk page. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 04:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Hehe I'm still blocked, so I had to reply here :) Jaranda, I just really want you to know that I wasn't stalking you or anything like that... I really wasn't trying to harass you. It was lack of judgment on my part. Perhaps I should've backed off... but I still think it was unfair. I mean after the edit to... well, I can't remember the page, the one after Eric Gagne, I was warned by another user not to do what I was doing (even though I wasn't intentionally). I went to respond to him, and I saw I was blocked. I'm not saying that what I was doing was right, but I don't think I should've been blocked if I didn't do anything wrong after I was warned. If I continued, then of course I would be blocked and I'd agree with that, but the way it was I don't think should've resulted in a block.

As far as becoming a future admin, I've pondered in the past if I'd be willing to go through that at some point in the future... and I'm really not sure if I'd want to. It would be an honor if I were an admin, but that's a lot of responsibility and I'm not sure that I'm the right person for that. And with my new philosophy (I explained it in my past post) I'd have to take more responsibility than, at this point of my editing career, I'm willing to take. Much later in the future, I might change my opinion. But I've gotten into several disputes in the past and I'm trying to change my entire philosophy to negate all the problems I've caused in the past. Having been blocked for the first time ever, ironically during the time that my friend Soxrock (talk · contribs) was blocked, adminship isn't something that I'm going to even consider about considering about considering at this time. But perhaps some mentoring would help me become a better editor, and I wouldn't mind any assistance should you wish to provide some for me, Jaranda. Thank you very much. Ksy92003(talk) 05:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Yea I wasn't talking about adminship now, has you have no chance currently, but maybe around early next year, I will unblock you, just don't revert if you are in doubt, especially edits that are unsourced of living people, same with PoV like "he was a good hitter", those edits should always be reverted no matter what, same with negative info with poor sourcing, like a blog. Make that be a lesson for you. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 05:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Believe me, this was a serious lesson. I now understand that I was wrong and promise that I will avoid any more issues if at all possible. Thank you so much again, Jaranda. Am I going to be unblocked now? Or am I gonna still have to wait until 12:52 PM tomorrow? Ksy92003(talk) 05:49, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

You should be unblocked now, sorry for the delay, I had to reply to a WP:DRV. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 05:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am unblocked now. Thank you so much, Jaranda. And just to prove that I'm gonna work harder on my issues, feel free to block me if I begin to do the same thing again... just please don't block me without a real reason :) Ksy92003(talk) 05:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

My userpage

Please don't edit my user page to remove the comments of others. The comment you deleted was a legitimate reply to something I posted on his talk page; he just forgot to make a new header for that section.►Chris Nelson 21:38, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I had your user talk page on my watchlist and saw the edit that he made. As you said, there wasn't a new header, and I saw that what he was talking about wasn't about what your previous conversation was about, so I believed it to be vandalism. I'm sorry. Ksy92003(talk) 21:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Image

I am weakly against cropping the image because the flavor of Wrigley Field would be lost. Let's bring it the the FAC and see what others think though. I would go with consensus.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Other players

Thanks for the redlinks. Other non-Princeton players mentioned need articles such as Edwin Correa. Some are redlinked and some may have been unlinked (if I recall). Do you think you might get a chance to add those?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:48, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I still see at least one more major leaguer (Eric Hillman), one more minor leaguer (Billy Killian). Control pitcher and power pitcher also still need to be researched. I don't know if any other than the first of these is up your alley, but have at any of them if they are.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:30, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

One could include sections in pitcher. However, they are terms worthy of articles. I will have to do some research so they pass WP:RS, WP:V.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 21:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I am working on control pitcher now.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 21:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Peyton Manning

I leave for one day and all hell breaks loose. Anyway, I would appreciate it if you could add any thoughts here. Dlong 05:12, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Gmh224 on Reggie Jacksons talk page

Gmh224 has to be the same person as Pascack, just look at his edit history, they edit basically the same things and both write similar things in the debates about the colors on infoboxes, Pascack has done this before--Yankees10 20:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

How do you prove it--Yankees10 20:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The only reason why I believe it is him is because he already tried to cheat with Joeidaho, which was proven to be Pascack--Yankees10 20:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Blocking

I was getting irritated with too many editors, which is how I nearly abandoned wikipedia last May. I decided to ask for an enforced time-out... but in fact I would have been blocked anyway, because I got turned in. It was a good idea, though. It allowed me to settle down... and reduce the size of my watch-list again. Baseball Bugs 19:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Even if I had not asked for it, that one IP address did, and it happened before Wknight94 could get to my request. Strangely enough, I ended up in some friendly dialogue with that IP address, and the block was lifted early... further evidence that you can attract more ants with sugar than with vinegar, if that's your idea of a good thing. :) Baseball Bugs 19:09, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Home/road

Someone was confused about Young's consecutive road start undefeated streak and I have created home (sports) and road (sports). I will be spending some time trying to find citations for what I have posted. If you know of any that would be helpful. I also beefed up power pitcher a wee bit in hopes of keeping it as a separate article. Thanks for the notice.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 05:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, if I am able to find any sources that would prove helpful for these articles, then I'll help with those. As far as my free time tomorrow goes, time that I can put into editing a lot on Wikipedia tomorrow, I'm not sure how much I'll have. I'll be busy all evening (family gathering, not reunion) and I'm gonna be busy during the afternoon (the perils of being 17 years old and still living under your parents' roof: having to do chores). I'll try to spend as much free time as I have on Wikipedia, if at all possible, and of course that includes helping you in any way. Ksy92003(talk) 06:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Zaphraud

Zaphraud appears to have been making what is known as a joke. You see, if Shark liver oil can be used as a predictor of the weather and it is also used in hemorrhoid creams then any asshole can predict the weather. It didn't seem to me to be directed at any individual. Kinston eagle 19:26, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Because of the specific edit, where it appeared that he was doubting the accuracy of the anon's addition, it appeared to me that he was calling the anon that word. Whether it was directed towards him/her or not, it was still a poor choice of words and gave the impression that he was making a personal attack towards the anon. Ksy92003(talk) 19:32, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Power pitcher

Could you weigh in at Talk:Power pitcher.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 17:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Taken care of. I think I made my point rather nicely. Ksy92003(talk) 18:36, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Now, your help is needed at WP:AFD--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 22:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Guess who made the AFD nomination?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 22:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I have had trouble communicating at User talk:Jmfangio. He erases everything that does not flatter him and calls it refactoring. If you look at my edits on his talk page you will see he kept erasing them. He manages his talk page differently than most. I leave all comments on my talk page. I think most people leave arguments on their talk pages. Even the most heated discussions I have had with people I didn't agree with e.g., User:Pmanderson have been held with enough mutual respoect not to erase each others comments. Personally, I believe that open communication with clear and complete records is the most important feature of WP. I dislike revisionist editing. I also dislike closing doors. I apologize to you if he won't respond to you anymore. I think you were already in a WP:RFC tussle with him before our discussion. I just dislike several things about my interaction with him. 1.) I think it is bad faith to WP:AFD something immediately after it achieves no consensus, without some major change in circumstances, 2.) I don't like seeing edits erased, 3.) I don't like hearing he refuses to communicate. Unfortunately, none of these dislikes are actionable other than by saying I dislike them. I believe he is watching our talk pages so I think he will hear that I do not think highly of these things, but it does not mean much.

There's no rule against deleting others' comments from your talk page, as such... and there's also no rule against going into their history and resurrecting them, as long as they are not mis-used to change their meaning. That subject came up many times during the User:Tecmobowl saga. Baseball Bugs 17:52, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with removing a discussion from your own talk page, but removing a discussion from somebody else's talk page is vandalism. The only reason why you would be allowed to remove somebody else's comments from somebody else's talk page is if the comments aren't allowed, such as vandalism or profanity. But removing an entire discussion for any other reason is vandalism. Now, I didn't know of the similarities between this an Tecmobowl, but I don't even know how this issue with me even exists. I don't think I've done a single wrong thing here, and Jmfangio has been disruptive ever since we first met. But one thing that I'm not sure he even knows is that I've been trying to make piece with him. And the first time I made contact with him was when I repaired a template on his page, and he's just gone all downhill from there. I don't know why he's been so hostile towards me. Ksy92003(talk) 18:23, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't really understand...

...what the dispute is about, but I found it amusing that not only did that one editor not get you punished as he had hoped... he bought himself a 24 hour block in the process. I don't know who's right or wrong here, I just found it amusing. My dos centavos: there is no rule I know of against copying text from someone's talk page to someone else's. It happens all the time. If it is selectively copied in order to distort the meaning, that would be another story. Baseball Bugs 06:14, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

It vaguely reminds me of this old saying: "Never sue. They might prove it." Baseball Bugs 06:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

(Edit conflict)

I really don't understand it, either. The recent one is because I, TonyTheTiger, and he were involved in a conversation. I asked him an important question, and he just smoothly ignored it by archiving it to his talk page. I went there and got the discussion and posted it on my talk page because the discussion wasn't over. And he says that per WP:TPG, I can't do that. He later said at ANI that the rule is that I can't edit somebody else's comments to change their meaning, something that I clearly didn't do. All I did was move the discussion somewhere else, something that he's done numerous times recently, and he decided to revert me. Because I couldn't revert him again without violating WP:3RR, on my own talk page nonetheless, I userfied it: User:Ksy92003/Discussion. He then started to blank the page, even though now I had a guideline (WP:USERFY) that said nothing that I couldn't do that. He eventually was blocked 24h for 3RR... I think the block should've been longer if that was the reason because on Friday, he was blocked 24h for 3RR, as well. Ksy92003(talk) 06:20, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Read the "Exceptions" on 3RR and you'll see that it does not apply to your own talk page, unless certain other rules are being violated in the process, which this is not. As long as you stay within the normal rules of civility, no libel or slander or copyright violations, the way I read it is that you have free reign over your own talk page. In short, you can put that info back if you want. If there is any doubt about that, ask the admin directly. Baseball Bugs

Right now, I don't really feel like doing anything. I'm so fed up with all that's gone on today that I couldn't even do anything on Wikipedia without worrying about getting blocked. In fact, when I looked at my watchlist and saw that on the ANI somebody was blocked for 24h, I was so scared it was me. You can only imagine the sigh of relief I exhaled after I saw that it was Jmfangio. As for the comment, I'm gonna leave that at User:Ksy92003/Discussion; if I bring it back here, no doubt Jmfangio is gonna want to revert it again and try to get me blocked again, and I don't want him to do anything bad to me again, so I think it's best to keep that separated. Ksy92003(talk) 06:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

You could pre-empt the issue by taking it directly to the admin who blocked him. Just ask him if (1) there is any issue with what you posted, which his comments suggest there is not; and (2) does the 3-revert rule apply to you on your own talk page. If he says no, and if that other user comes back at you, take it straight back to the admin. As I have found in the past, it's best to take things to an admin. That's what they are paid to do, so to speak. Baseball Bugs 07:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

If that situation presents itself, then I might consider that. But as for right now, there don't seem to be any problems with what I've done, so I'm not gonna worry about that right now. Ksy92003(talk) 07:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Quotation marks

It gets more complicated. The one-standard-fits-all approach of putting the punctuation inside the "" is frequently used in America. The standard I cited is the one used in England and which, if I recall correctly, is the one indicated in the wikipedia manual of style. I recommend you read the manual of style, wherever it may be. Regarding your English class, your best bet is to ask your teacher up front, and then you'll get it right in their eyes, regardless of what's "right" overall. :) P.S. Notice I used "their" as a singular neuter pronoun. I'm sure your teacher would not be very happy about that. But I think that will become standard practice someday, as it's less awkward than the "he or she" stuff. I had an English teacher tell me that once, and that's good enough for me. However, again, ask your own teacher. :) Baseball Bugs 09:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

3RR Report

Please read my comments on the 3RR report. Do not reinstate the comment under any circumstances. If the other editor wants to disengage on that page you must allow them do do so. Spartaz ^Humbug! 09:42, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Very well. I won't do anything else for now. I left a comment on your talk page as to why I did what I did. If you have any comments about that, I'll be more than happy to answer them for you. Ksy92003(talk) 09:43, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Please read dispute resolution. The first stage in avoiding disputes is to step away. I realise that you wanted to get your point across but looking at this from the outside what is happening is that you are preventing another editor from disengaging. Spartaz ^Humbug! 09:49, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't that I was trying to get him to disengage. I was only bringing his comment back because my comment was written in response to it. That comment needed to be visible because it was replied to. Ksy92003(talk) 09:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright, it's 3:00 in the morning, I'm tired, and Jmfangio has already harassed me so much in the past couple days. I'm going to bed and I'll be prepared to resume this discussion in the morning, if I must. But I believe that if you read the comment I left at User talk:Spartaz, it will detail my whole rationale behind my edits. I mean somebody can't do something one day, saying it's alright, and then prevent somebody else from doing it just because it's being done to them this time. I mean seriously, it's like if I did something to somebody else and say it's okay, would I say that it isn't okay just because somebody did it to me? You can't do that, and I really hope that somebody (other than Chrisjnelson) actually understands that. I really need to sleep on this... I'll be prepared to discuss this in the morning. Ksy92003(talk) 09:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Pascack cheating at the Reggie Jackson poll

Pascack is cheating at the Reggie Jackson poll he has 4 of his own IP addresses and user names under the A's 192.234.99.1 is pascack, 68.173.209.19 is pascack, and Gmh224 I believe is pascack--Yankees10 17:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I've seen that some of them have been removed. I still don't know for sure if they are socks or not, but I'll say that it did seem rather suspicious that there were a lot of IP addresses that had voted. But if Pascack were using those as socks, then I wonder how he was able to use that many IP addresses, unless he has that many computers in his household, but they should all be within the same IP range if that was the case. Ksy92003(talk) 18:10, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

This kind of thing should be a good indication of why it's not appropriate to vote at Wikipedia. Unfortunately, I wasn't available for the ensuing discussion, but I'm disappointed a vote even took place. Leebo ^T/C 18:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean for it to be a vote vote. It was as I mentioned on the talk page because so many people were in the discussion about which colors they thought it should be that it was impossible to see what the consensus was, and I thought this would've been a good way to see what the consensus was... perhaps I went about it the wrong way though... sorry. Ksy92003(talk) 18:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

What it's actually a good indication of, is why we shouldn't have team colors on players who aren't affiliated with any team anymore. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 18:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

But I don't think we'll be able to convince the entire project that we should remove the colors. Although it causes disputes, I do think that the colors are necessary. Ksy92003(talk) 18:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

You're right. I've tried, and they won't listen. And it's not enough of a hot-button issue to me, to get into a war about it. But I'd like to hear your opinion on why it's necessary, as opposed to merely decorative. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 18:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, I changed the colors on Reggie Jackson's infobox to no color: white color, black words.

Secondly, I like the colors because when you look at a player's article, you can instantly get an idea of who they were most famous for. Like Catfish Hunter, you can instantly see that he played for the A's assuming you didn't know already (he did, right?). You can instantly see that Ichiro (when he retires) played for the Mariners. Ksy92003(talk) 18:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

You've kind of hit upon the point I was getting at, that it's not "necessary", it's something "likeable". Wikipedia pedants would argue against it for that reason. I won't. I kind of like it too. My complaint is that when a guy is famous with several teams, it puts us in the position of deciding which one he was most famous for, which is against the POV rules. Now, if a guy is in the Hall of Fame, and has chosen his team, that makes it easy. And Ron Santo, who's not in the Hall but should be, can easily be identified by Cubs colors since he was only with the White Sox for one year. But what about someone who either is neither in the Hall or is in the Hall but didn't choose a cap (as with Cy Young) or who played so long ago that the team colors are different? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

That's why a lot of people argue that Jackson should have Yankees colors because he is in the Hall as a Yankee. I think that should be the standard, but everybody will always try to find loopholes. Ksy92003(talk) 19:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

And that user wants to post A's colors, right? News flash: Nobody cared about the Oakland A's in the early 1970s, outside of Oakland. And that's probably still true. He was most famous as a Yankee, I guarantee you. That's where he drew the most attention: "The straw that stirs the drink," and all that sort of thing. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

And also, he's the star of the show The Bronx is Burning which revolves around his Yankee career, so that adds to the popularity. Ksy92003(talk) 19:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

That makes him currently known, for sure. I gather that Reggie's playing days are well before your time, but I recall it well, and a measure of the A's "popularity" then was that they couldn't even fill the Coliseum for the ALCS. They might even have had some open seats during the World Series, though I'm not so sure about that. If Reggie had never gone to NYC, I agree it would be the A's. But he did, and at that point it was as if the A's were just a warmup to taking center stage in the Big Apple. A larger issue gets to be free agency and the "mercenary" player. What do you do with someone like Lonnie Smith or Kenny Lofton or Reggie Sanders, who have been on a number of teams that went to the post-season? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't say anything for Kenny Lofton, as he currently plays for the Indians, but I don't even know all the teams he has played for. I don't know about the other guys because they are before my time. I can't vouch for his popularity during his playing time because I wasn't born yet, but I certainly know he had a lot of popularity around the country as a Yankee, of course resulting in him being the focus of The Bronx is Burning. I think the popularity issue is something that A's fans would debate, but from the perspective of somebody who dislikes both the A's and the Yankees (I'm an Angel fan, and everybody hates the Yankees and the A's are a division rival), I would still say that he's more popular as a Yankee... although I know he played with the Angels for some time, but wasn't anywhere near as popular as he was with the Yankees, and I think that means a lot coming from an Angels fan. Ksy92003(talk) 19:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Jackson seemed to inspire controversy everywhere he went, but I'm inclined to think he just reacted to things. I don't recall him having any big problems on the Angels, who had a benevolent owner (Gene Autry) instead of a controversial character like Finley or Steinbrenner. Long before he got into fights with Billy Martin and Thurmon Munson and Graig Nettles and whoever else, he was slugging it out with guys in the A's locker room. That didn't stop them from winning 5 straight divisions and 3 straight World Series. But they didn't make any "Reggie Bars" when he was on the A's. And I don't know if "popular" quite fits Reggie outside of Yankeedom, but "fame" and "notoriety" certainly fit. The A's were a team that had no real fan base outside of their neighborhood. There are Yankees fans everywhere. Reggie also played with the Baltimore Orioles for one year, before he went to the Yankees. Meanwhile, now that I think of it, wasn't Pascack the one who kept trying to change Casey Stengel's colors to the Mets? I got the impression he was a Yankees hater. I'm no Yankees fan either, but there's no question Stengel's colors should be Yankees. And although a case can be made for Jackson either way, he's wearing Yankees colors on his Hall of Fame plaque, and his motives for doing so are not really relevant. So if he has to have any colors, they should be the Yankees. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe he had any problems with the Angels. But he most certainly was known nationwide much more with the Yankees. Ksy92003(talk) 19:57, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

No question about it. When I think of Reggie, I think of his Yankee years. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe only A's fans would say otherwise. Ksy92003(talk) 20:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Precisely. And Yankees haters. And only Mets fans (and Yankees haters) would say Casey Stengel should be in Mets colors rather than Yankees colors. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

GA pursuits

I don't know if you saw my last message about pursuing GAs. I forgot to sign and you might have been confused on whether it was me.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

There are two ways to qualify for a DYK: 1.) an interesting fact from an article created in the last 5 days. 2.) an interesting fact from an article that was less than 1500 characters that you expanded 5-fold or more in the last 5 days. Thus, if you find an article that is less than 1500 characters, you can get a DYK by expanding it 5-fold. That is what I am suggesting. When you do this you will be well on your way to a successful WP:GAC. The offer to help extends to the Chicago Bears as well as the Chicago Bulls and Chicago Blackhawks. Good luck with your editing. Don't let any battles get you down. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:57, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

DYK's are not so hard to get. You probably have created many articles that qualify. You should check all the articles you have made in the last 5 days and see if they are eligible. Once you get started producing DYKs you will get hooked and probably shoot for 1500 characters on new articles when possible. It is a good goal. You should give it a shot. I wish I knew about it sooner. I created many articles for which I could have gotten DYK credits. User:IvoShandor has produced a ton of them. He does a lot of work on National Register of Historic Places in the Chicago area. Once you have a stable of DYKs then you can build to GAs. Look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/COTW/Good Articles. That is what we are doing at WP:CHICOTW.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 01:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Falcons roster

Yeah, between the previous version I had open to check the link and such I never really remembered to change the edit summary. My bad. Pats1 01:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Bobby Vaughn

I don't exactly remember how I found this page, but it was probably by searching in one of the categories it is included in. I was browsing through a lot of players' biographies and I noticed that a player who died in 1965 couldn't have played his first game in 1990, so I corrected the mistake. It was a highly unlikely event to happen and yet it happened. Canjth 01:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Reggie Jackson

sorry for changing it again but where is the discussion is it on one of the wikiproject discussion pages or are you talking about the discussion on the Reggie Jackson discussion page--Yankees10 22:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

oh ok, should I do that to Lenny Dykstra and Gary Carters infobox because 192.234.99.1 continues to change the colors there and me and him are in a feud over what color it should be--Yankees10 22:31, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Can you leave him a message telling him to not revert those again, because he doesnt listen to me, and thanks for warning me about the 3RR I dont want to be blocked again for that--Yankees10 22:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

thanks for warning him--Yankees10 23:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Jmfangio block

You meant to say that he was already unblocked, because his block had already expired, right? Yes, I haven't been an admin that long and I'm still learning how to address some of the tasks, like unblock requests. My lesson today was that it's helpful to verify that the user is still blocked before declining the request! -- But|seriously|folks  06:40, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

What's even stranger is that exactly one minute after I declined his request, he archived his whole user talk page. He must have had a brick balanced on his refresh button all day! -- But|seriously|folks  06:46, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Ramón Peña

Here is another one found while reading Tony Pena and Tony Pena, Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs)

Done. Ksy92003(talk) 17:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

You have about 800 characters. To get to DYK you need 1500 characters and an interesting fact. Regardign 1500 characters: Do you know

1. who he debuted against
2. what his line score was
3. what minor league teams (possibly linkable) he played for
4. what minor leagues (linkable) he played for
5. did he represent the DR (international play)
6. whether he played with or against his brother in the minors or majors (international play
7. add a see also section Players from Dominican Republic in MLB

Filling in 1500 characters with this kind of stuff may get you an interesting fact. Good luck.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 17:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

P.S. at WP:DYK they favor proper citations. You may want to start using the {{cite web}} template. All the pages highlighted with icons on my user page use this feature.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 17:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I added a bit and we are now over 1000 characters of main body text.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:02, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

We can go for a DYK if you want now. I added a pretty interesting fact. We could also look for a couple other interesting facts. It might be worth noting he was signed by the Pirates while his brother was in the organization and that they both played Rookie ball for the same team. His stats suggest he may have played in some minor league All-Star games. As a baseball reasearcher is this verifyable? --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:06, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

You can submit a DYK with alternate hooks. You can present hook1 (same org) and hook2 (no homers). It will increase your chances.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:24, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

You can nominate any article created or expanded 5-fold in the last five days for DYK whether you edited them or not. Credits are given to the nominator, the page originator and occasionally to additional editors. I do not want to take credit for your hard work and I also want to encourage you to become active at DYK. Go to the section for the 18th and add

• ...that Major League Baseball relief pitcher Ramón Peña, younger brother of All-Star catcher Tony Peña, was signed by the Pittsburgh Pirates while Tony was playing their minor league organization. Self nom: Ksy92003 time stamp
  • (alternate hook)...that Major League Baseball relief pitcher Ramón Peña, younger brother of All-Star catcher Tony Peña, allowed no home runs to any of the 88 batters he faced despite his rather high 6.00 career earned run average. Self nom: Ksy92003 time stamp

Then watch this section for editorial comments and advice.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:45, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Most DYK comments come on the 4th or 5th day. Unless there are problems you probably won't see anything until then. It is good that you haven't heard anythibng.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

It looks like no one has anything against your DYK so far.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:12, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Please steal my stolen template. Please give the proper credit. The way DYK works is they use the oldest facts first. They try to be 5 or 6 days behind so that if you don't find anything interesting until the 5th day you can still make the main page. I have only had one or two be overlooked of all my submissions. I think I have submitted about 25. I have had to revise many hooks. I have had a few disqualified for being over 1500 characters before I began or for being more than 5 days old, but only one or two has been described as uninteresting and gotten passed over for that reason. BTW, I added a bit to a couple of your recent creations yesterday.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Category sorting

See Wikipedia:Categorization_of_people#Ordering_names_in_a_category, one of the lines under "Other exceptions". The reason is simple, the Wiki software sorts all the letters not in a-zA-Z after z, so that "Peña" comes after "Pew" in category lists; to make it appear in the right place, we strip the accents. Really, it's a software bug. Studerby 19:39, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Stu Cliburn

That website is obviously incorrect regarding his name - the items found in this search are much more reliable, including his page on the Rochester Red Wings' website, where he is currently the pitching coach, and the Democrat and Chronicle, the Rochester, NY newspaper. In fact, of the first 30 results, "Stu" is used 29 times by various media outlets, including ESPN and media in New Britain, CT, where he was previously the pitching coach for the Rock Cats. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 21:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I believe you. I haven't bothered to look at the google search, but I'm taking your word for it. I will send an e-mail to the gentleman who operates Baseball-reference.com and politely ask him to check these conflicting websites and see if it is an error there or whatever. But I'll take care of this and see what he says about this, and perhaps it will be found out that there was an error at Baseball-reference. Ksy92003(talk) 23:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Just to let you know.

Just to let you know, they're talking about you. AR Argon 02:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I dunno what it's called. Found the page when I was reading about administrators. AR Argon 02:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. AR Argon 02:57, 22 August 2007 (UTC)