User talk:Mr Bound/archive1

Hey, Mr Bound. Thanks for taking my side in the ugly drum corps battle. I thought I'd say hi. I see you're also a Cake fan. I just saw them last night in Chicago. Nice coincidence.

Lazytiger 22:12, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A Cake fan? No kidding? Crazy stuff. Are they decent live? I must admit, I'm not the most developed Cake fan, I started getting into them after a comrade showed me several of their songs. I only own Comfort Eagle and Pressure Chief, but I'm looking into pickup up some of the older albums.

As for the entire corps article battle, I certainly don't think the other side is "fair and balanced" in the least.

I took a peek at your website: Calvin and Hobbes fan? As am I. Great comic, a pity Watterson stopped writing it.

Hope you read this, if you don't, no great loss. Cheers!

--Mr Bound 23:31, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

I'm new to Cake myself. My wife really likes them and I've just recently started listening. But I like what I hear. They were pretty good live. They're all totally solid players. They just get in the groove and ride out the show. Very mellow, just like on the albums.

Yes, I'm a bit of a Calvin and Hobbes fan. I hardly ever update my site anymore, as you might have been able to tell. Lately I've been taking an interest in Wikipedia. I can't wait for Catherine Burr's next response... sheesh.

Lazytiger 01:14, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Nice profile link.

Not that I hadn't seen Goatse before, but was it really necessary to do it again? It's never an enjoyable sight. --Mr Bound 21:59, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)

I am sorry you clicked on the link. I mean it. It is here for a purpose, but I will eventually remove it, don't worry. --Sam Hocevar 23:30, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

DC pages -- yes please

Hi. Yes, if you know how we can go about dealing with our problematic visitor let's do so. I have asked User:Deb, who NPOV'd one of the original articles, to see if there's anything she can do (e.g. protecting the page in the interim).

Thanks, Matt.

MattJ 20:03, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

---

Mr. Bound, do you have an email address I can reach you at? You don't have to post it here; go to my website and email me. Thanks.

Lazytiger 14:02, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In reply...

I replied to your comment on my user page, but I'm a new Wikipedian and I don't know how these things work! So heres my user talk page. --Sbutler 19:58, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Drum Corps Photos

I have found the site of a photographer named Charles R. Frey who I hope to get in touch with to request the release from copyright some of his photographs. His work is on Webshots and the photos are of a very high standard. They appear to be only of DCI corps, and I would like to see more than just DCI represented in the article. As many have said, drum corps is not DCI. I will look into getting some DCUK and DCE photos, perhaps you can look for some DCA photos, and you, I, or anyone else can choose the best ones. I think after a day and a half I'm pretty good with the Wiki markup, but thanks for your correction! --Sbutler 20:09, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Reply (drum corps)

Hello. I'm marching for the Scouts currently... But I'd like to continue expanding work on wikipedia for all the corps when I have the time.Ross 23:36, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure... Though there are still blanks to be filled in DCI Division I World Champions that I was unable to find information for. Stuff like dates and venues and such.

Sigh....

Well, I can't say I'm too excited about Catherine's return. I was rather enjoying her absence, but of course, always waiting for her dubious return. Thanks for taking care of her vandalisms. I suggest we report her to the Wikipedia abuse team in the very near future if she continues. I'm not sure what they can really do though, since she is posting anonymously from different IP addresses.

Lazytiger 01:15, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Div1 Champs article vandal

Hi again. The corps table looks amazing. Can't wait to get em in the corps articles... Anyway, the anonymous IP vandal of DCI Division I World Champions turns out to be somebody I know, sadly. He's about as smart as a rock. The IP looked familier.. I've had to ban him on my site, The Kentucky Marching Arts previously. The IP matched.
I think he has some inferiority complex regarding corps... He plays clarinet. Ross 05:17, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

I don't think he'll do it again. I told his girlfriend what he did, she confronted him.. and he claimed to know nothing about it, in spite of the overwhelming evidence. I bet he feels like a horse's ass now.

Check out the DCI Season Pass images: [1], [2], etc. for logos. I can move these to Wikipedia if you'd like. Ross 18:37, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

No more substub

I noted that you recently added the tag {{substub}} to the Calvin Stowe article. However, the Template:Substub has been deleted, so your tag didn't work. In future, it would be great if you could use more specific stub tags when revising articles. Thanks for helping with Wikipedia cleanup!! RussBlau 14:07, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

Fish pages by 169.204.158.10

There doesn't seem to be a need for wfy and cleanup tags on these at the moment, as they all appear to be copyvio. Stephen Compall 21:06, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

RE: No problem. I'm working on the remaining copyvios for these. Happy editing! Stephen Compall 21:09, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

re: Some advice on a VFD discussion?

Hi, MTG, I've been keeping an eye on a VFD discussion of mine and it seems to have gone a bit wacky. I know that you're a relatively experienced VFD individual (or at least, that's the impression I got), so I was wondering if you could give me a little bit of advice as to what to do. The page is Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Mishing. Thanks, comrade. Mr Bound 21:05, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

First of all, DON'T WORRY! Sure, it *looks* like a dozen users have suddenly decided they hate you, BUT if you look at the history of the page it's only one or two IPs pretending to be legit users (none of whom actually exist). And if you look at the history of the page itself, it's the same IP--195.93.21.69 is obviously 195.93.21.38. Note the last digits are the only change, and there's no way a coincidental matching IP could make a beeline to that very Vfd.

I've now reported it at the Administrators' noticeboard, so see what you think. Hopefully this will get resolved.

It's not exactly the best impression for one of your first Vfds, but this happens fairly often when a page is to be deleted and the IP has strong feelings about it remaining. Bogus votes, even ones appearing to come from existing users, are unfortunately not uncommon...

Anyway, hope that helps you! Master Thief Garrett^Talk 03:21, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I see you've *already* worked out who's actually behind everything! Well, um, yeah. Hopefully there will be an end to this. Master Thief Garrett^Talk 03:38, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Elizabeth II

In regards to your argument, I suggest you look at where the following links point and you'll see the basis of my argument: Elizabeth II of Antigua and Barbuda, Elizabeth II of Australia, Elizabeth II of the Bahamas, Elizabeth II of Barbados, Elizabeth II of Belize, Elizabeth II of Grenada, Elizabeth II of Jamaica, Elizabeth II of New Zealand, Elizabeth II of Papua New Guinea, ]], Elizabeth II of Saint Kitts and Nevis, Elizabeth II of Saint Lucia, Elizabeth II of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Elizabeth II of the Solomon Islands, Elizabeth II of Tuvalu. AndyL 02:39, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• You'll see I've changed my vote. I may wind up voting for a merge, I think some other opinions are in order. Good case. Mr Bound 02:44, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

You could call me a drum corps fan

Nice to meet you.

I marched Southwind for two years and Glassmen for one. I'll see if I can get some pics uploaded from my personal collection (i.e. ones I've taken, so no need to worry about copyvio) --Tristan 8 July 2005 13:21 (UTC)

Stub templates

I notice you've marked articles with {{Stub}}. It would be nice if you could follow the stub guidelines and mark them with a more specific kind of stub, to facilitate people who know the subject finding the articles for expansion. Thanks for helping! --ScottDavis 13:53, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure which page has been redesigned that makes it hard for you. There are two pages I know of listing stubs, laid out different ways: Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types and Wikipedia:Template messages/Stubs/By region. The second one is bigger and clearer, but really only covers stubs that relate in some way to a place (about the place, or the people, culture or history of the place), not about abstract concepts or what people did. The first page lists all "approved" stub templates. Even if you only mark articles with a next-level stub tag, it means people who understand the hierarchy below that are more likely to find it to tag more precisely. Good luck. --ScottDavis 04:59, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Government Warehouse

You may remember that I addressed your concerns about the original contents of Government Warehouse, that it contained things such as "A prototype for the HAL 9000", with a rewrite. Reddi (talk · contribs) has since restored the original unverifiable contents to the article, and then, when I removed them again, "in order to avoid an edit war" forked List of the Government Warehouse's contents. That latter has since been nominated for deletion, but currently there is just the one keep vote. Reddi (talk · contribs) has stated on Talk:Government Warehouse that if the latter article is deleted, xe intends to re-add the content to Government Warehouse once again. Please contribute to the discussions at Talk:Government Warehouse and Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of the Government Warehouse's contents. Uncle G 13:20:29, 2005-08-10 (UTC)

Drumcorps behaviors

-re: drugs and drumcorps, let's chalk it up to first hand experience, why don't we? the first time i smoked pot? drumcorps. the first (and second, and third and on and on) time i got blind stinking drunk was at a drumcorps, with liquor bought for me by staff members. as far as the sex goes, let's just say i am a little too smart to let some of those rotten guard sluts anywhere near my dick, but it's impossible to ignore that it goes on. and hazing? ask around about "rookie talent" and you will probably be pleassantly surprised, especially if you enjoy stories involving semen, urine, pubic hair, feces, public sex acts, food, blood, or any of a veriety of other fluids and debris. thanks for taking an interest in keeping the safe and sanitary outward appearance of drum and bugle corps, but what we want to be true isn't always the truth.

Cavaliers Page

Hey, I'm glad you like the changes to The Cavaliers article. Obviously the best part about it is that very nice table info table that you made. I saw it on a couple of other corps pages last night so I made it a template Template:DrumCorpsInfoBox. I was going to recommend that you change the other pages to use the template instead of having the table hardcoded everywhere. I could do it myself, of course -- but since you're the one who made the table I figured I'd pass it on that it's now a template.

Another thing... notice that instead of putting a number in the championship titles area, I put the years that The Cavaliers won -- just a suggestion, either way is fine. And the other part that I changed about the template is that I made it "DCI Championship Titles" instead of "Championship Titles", because anybody old school will remind you that there were numerous championships before DCI that everybody in the modern era has a way of forgetting.

You can hit me on AIM at CavieWebGuy if you use that. I'm the Cavaliers webmaster, which is why I take more than a passing interest in the Cavaliers article on Wikipedia.

Advertising is not a CSD criteria, sigh.

While I totally agree that Deklarit should be deleted, advertising is not a CSD criteria. Please add it to WP:AFD. It may be a copyvio, have you tried the google test(search for a random set of 5 or so words)? I have not added it to either of those, I would really appreciate it if you would, though. JesseW, the juggling janitor 06:45, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Image:Madisonscouts.jpg

My mother took the image finals night on her digital camera... I told her about using it on Wikipedia and she agreed. You can see me in there... 3rd mello from the left (between the 2nd and 3rd snares). Ross Uber - Talk - Contributions - 04:21, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

InfoBox template reply

I'm sorry, I didn't see your followup on my user page, which had the question about the drum corps infobox template. Sorry.

The "right" answer to this question, from a web development perspective, is to make the template smart enough to see if each variable is defined, and to skip the HTML for the rows that have no defined variable. But I doubt templates are that smart. There are several things about MediaWiki that I wish were smarter than they are. It's very much a human-edited experience, with practically nothing designed to be automated.

If it turns out that there is no way for the template to be that smart, then the next best solution, I guess, is to include one template for each line of the infobox. A header, which opens the table, a footer, which closes it, and one template for each bit of information. Director, year founded, hometown, championships, etc. That's would be kind of a drag but it would certainly be scalable. When there's more information, just add another template that that info box. And we would still have the benefit that comes with templates, which is that the HTML that defines the appearance is located in one place.

In fact... each row template could also refer to a HTML template that defines the HTML before and after the content

header-template
     |-------openhtml
     |-------closehtml

location-template
     |-------rowname-template
                  |-------------openrowhtml
                   HTML specific to the name cell
     |-------rowvalue-template
                   HTML specific to the value cell
                  |-------------closerowhtml

footer-template
     |-------openhtml
     |-------closehtml

Not to over-architect the thing, though -- I guess the "right" wikipedia way would be to make it more dumb-capable instead of making templates smarter. The simplest solution to the problem of, say, an inactive corps is to make a variation of the drum corps template for inactive corps. They could have HTML in common, through the use of templates.

DrumCorpsInfoBox (could be called ActiveInfoBox, but it already has this name so it could remain)
            |-----------DrumCorpsInfoBoxHeader
            |-----------DrumCorpsActiveInfoBoxContent
            |-----------DrumCorpsInfoBoxFooter


DrumCorpsInactiveInfoBox
             |-----------DrumCorpsInfoBoxHeader
             |-----------DrumCorpsInactiveInfoBoxContent
             |-----------DrumCorpsInfoBoxFooter

This way, even if the HTML changes, you just have two places (or 4 places maximum, really -- the header, footer, and the two content templates) where changes would have to be implemented.

Seriously, one of my biggest concerns about wikipedia, having spent the last decade as a web developer, is... what happens to all the pages that have hardcoded HTML look and feel in them, and when somebody decides that wikipedia needs to have a different look, they have all this HTML that doesn't match the rest of the site.

Readparse, who still hasn't figured out if automatic signatures with UTC timestamps really appear or people just type them in. Let me know if you know. I haven't figured out how to do it yet.

Vandalism on my user page

Thanks for fixing it, fellow drum corps nerd. Kurt Weber 03:05, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

DCI Merge

Hey. Well, I've heard of WikiProject Drum Corps but have always hesitated to join, mostly because I don't do much editing at all to any Drum Corps related articles. It's similar to the fact that I joined WikiProject Airports but not WikiProject Airlines due to the fact that I do a lot of editing to airport articles, but tend to only do minor work on airlines, usually to grammar and clarification issues. As for merging, I always felt that DCA and the older forms of corps were just the history that modern drum and bugle corps evolved from. I never really thought it as a separate entity, and senior corps were just really there so that aged-out die hard members could march. It's probably not that way at all, but when I was in high school and I got to march junior corps, I always felt it was that way. You can easily just move Drum and bugle corps (classic) to History of Drum and Bugle Corps, then take the introduction of that article and place into the drum corps article after it has also been moved from Drum and bugle corps (modern) to just plain Drum and bugle corps. I read through the article, and it already seems to be doing very well. It just needs some more information, a bit of wording fixed, and of course, inline references and this could become featured. I myself got Columbine High School massacre featured back in August, with the help of several contributors, and I also wrote a large part of History of Miami, Florida back when it was part of the Miami, Florida article. It was then moved into its own article and got featured. I've also helped with Pan American World Airways, but again, only some copyediting, so I can help you do that if that's what you want. If not for now, I can still help getting it up to par. What would "history of marching drill" be about, exactly? -- SmthManly / ^ManlyTalk / ^{ManlyContribs} 02:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Reading through the talk page for drum corps, and seeing Ms. Burr's... I should say, obsession... with keeping DCI and DCA separate, I don't know how well a merge could go. We could take the issue up with the arbcomm if she decides to argue against a merge, but that would be drastic, and it seems like such a hassle for something so miniscule. We should still try it, or try to find some way to compromise it. I'm sure if you speak to most corps people, most would be for a merge rather than against it. As for the marching drill article, it sounds like a great idea. The only problem is that you would also need to place a section concerning amry-style marching drill, it can't just be related to Marching Band and Drum Corps, at least most people who aren't related to MB and DC would think so. -- SmthManly / ^ManlyTalk / ^{ManlyContribs} 00:58, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, if that's the case, we should go ahead with the merge and see if we can get it featured. -- SmthManly / ^ManlyTalk / ^{ManlyContribs} 01:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

UD

Of course it was me. Oh look, they nixed my idea... I love how they told me to play the game more... both my human and zombie are just about maxed. human in paynterton z in gulonside Ross Uber - Talk - Contributions - 06:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Islamophobia

please vote again here

Marching percussion photos

Hey, Mr Bound. Thanks for coming to my defense in the marching percussion discussion. About the photos, I'm conflicted about whether they should feature a single person on each instrument or several people on each instrument. The ones I've found show only a single person. It has been surprisingly difficult to find good photos meeting my criteria: not in uniform (for neutrality), in focus, good color, and showing their whole body with nothing getting cropped out. Then there's the copyright issue. Virtually no photo, unless I took it myself, is going to be copyright-free. The ones I found are from the Cavaliers' website, and the webmaster (John Ingram) forwarded my email on to Jeff Fiedler to try to contact the person who actually took the photos (David Castillo). And since Cavies don't have cymbals, I snagged a photo from SCV's site and sent their webmaster an email as well. No response from them yet. Here's the links to the Cavie photos; the one of the bass drummer is exactly what I was looking for, but the snare and tenor pics could be better. Let me know what you think.—Lazytiger 13:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

http://www.cavaliers.org/images/photos/2005/673/cavie_15809.jpg (bass) http://www.cavaliers.org/images/photos/2005/673/cavie_15807.jpg (snare) http://www.cavaliers.org/images/photos/2005/671/cavie_15727.jpg (tenor)

• I have not heard back from the Cavaliers yet about their photos. I just got a response from SCV saying they'd prefer I used a picture of them in uniform as opposed to the one I picked where they're shirtless.  :) If we're going to go with uniforms, I saw a sweet one of them forming the V with their cymbals. However, you mentioned that you were going to be taking some of your own photos; perhaps it would be best to use those if they turn(ed) out well.—Lazytiger 12:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Splooie dispute

I marched the Cavaliers for five goddamn years and am sick of people covering up "splooie." Is there any primary source for the meaning of this word? No. Is there any primary source for word-of-mouth history? No.

Here are my "dispute resolution" suggestions: 1. Keep my meaning of splooie on the page as a claim without verification (ie "some attribute 'splooie' to mean..."). 2. I'll be happy to keep my mouth shut if you want to tell me what SUTA means.

Also, what defines a reliable website?

Re: Help with formatting an orphaned image?

Sorry, it seems the infobox template used in that article does not support resizing images. --Fritz S. (Talk) 09:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Regiment Image

Hi, I thought I clearly stated in the "summary" of that image that I was the personal author of that photo. In any case, that's where it came from. --C.lettinga 22:51, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of Legacy Corporation

First I would like to start by saying I cannot understand why Legacy Corporation has been deleted from Wiki. If you read clearly this Company is Fielding a corps and provides other programs other than just drum corps. If you read you would have noticed this. Also this is not a NON FOR PROFIT COMPANY. I have worked for this company for several years. I know this company has several small companies that certain programs go under for particular tax status corrosponding to that program. I will re submit this information to wiki because just because a corps has not go on the field and has not signed with DCI does not mean that they are not a drum corps. recognize this. In addition if you are wondering where their site is it is being redesigned. So maybe again you should look into it cause not all companies have websites. Get with the program

--72.80.226.252 00:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Drum corps (reply)

Hello Mr. Bound, I understand your concern for the links to different corps. I had planned on fixing the links once I was completed with the list witch may take awhile. I know all the links are not to the actual drum corps. It is my belief that if we are able to get these corps names in a list of all the "supposed" known drum corps even with little or missing information we will be able to encourage other users to fill in information and provide more sources. However, I do believe this list is something that will MAJORLY assist in the drum corps project. After completing the list I had planned to start writing as many articles for the individual corps as possible, the goal obviously would be to have an article for every corps on the list. I also understand your concern of the credibility of some corps perhaps when the project is closer to completion we could add a note to the article stating which corps are not confirmed as a credible organization. I think this would be a better alternative to not having a list at all, or assuming that corps never did exist and thus not even giving it a chance. If we have it listed it will be more likely that someone who can source proof of credibilty will do so in the future. You are correct that it will be a simply mammoth task, but one that should be undertaken nonetheless. I hope I can continue with your support. War wizard90 18:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey Mr. Bound i really need your help!!!

Hey Mr Bond i really need your help there is this guy messing around with the Bleed article i put up..... also i am not very familiar with wiki so please help me improve the article and prevent such further mishaps............ lookin forward to your help Deipheron

RE: Removal of "drum and bugle corps" category from instructor pages

Hi. I'm the gentleman in charge of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Drum Corps, and I was curious as to why you removed the "drum and bugle corps" category from the pages of Fred Sanford, Tom Float, Ralph Hardimon, and Marty Hurley. These individuals are well known for their involvement within the drum and bugle corps activity (and it says so, I think, on each of their pages. I won't be adding back the category yet; I'd like to hear what your reason is. Maybe they shouldn't be in the category after all. Thanks! Mr Bound 16:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi! I've been going through many of the articles marked with Category:Musicians, since they should be categorised further into its subcategories. I might have been wrong with removing the category "Drum and bugle corps", but I thought this was a category for a group of people, not a person. An analogy is the categories musical groups and musicians, where musical groups are a group of people, and musicians are for single persons. I might be wrong in your situation, but if you disagree I'm willing to go along with your viewpoint. Another category I removed are Category:Rudimental Percussion, do you disagree with this as well? For me it is not logic to put a musician in a category of instruments. Thanks for giving me a chance to explain. Spelemann 09:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

RE:Image:1975 Championship Pose Madison Scouts.jpg

Thanks for the fast response. Would it amount to anything that one of the guys in the picture is my dad (Jon Schrack)? I might be able to get permission for it, not sure though. Edit: Sorry forgot to sign Deflagro 22:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Drum corps?

Yeah, I'm interested in them, fan only though, unless they manage to allow saxes in before I hit 21. I did however see the DCI semis in Madison last year though. Kwsn^(Ni!) 22:50, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Marching band

You're Invited!! Based on your Wikipedia contributions, you may want to consider joining WikiProject Marching band. More information can be found on the project page. We hope you'll join us!

--Littledrummrboy

RE: Cadets Picture

Thanks for the complement on the Cadets picture... I'm very interested in helping out with the project on drum corps pages... I'll be going to 4 competitions this year, including DCI finals, so I can get a lot of pictures for pages. Irteagle102704 17:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Blue devils logo.jpg

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flattening of the dci world class champions template

looks good. but, do you think it will look funny for people who run non-maximized browsers (or smaller screens)? they may end up with wrapping issues where one corps ends up on it's own line. Gwguffey (talk) 22:06, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

ah, but there is a difference in the information presented in the world class champions verses the world class corps -- in the world class champions template, every corps name is followed by the years they won. so, if you don't go a bit more conservative on the lines (2 or 3 corps per line instead of 4) by breaking a bit earlier, then you could end up with the corps name and their championship years on separate lines. on the world class corps template, that isn't a concern because there are only the corps' names. (oops, forgot to sign...) Gwguffey (talk) 22:26, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I modeled it (loosely) on the super bowl-type navigation boxes. My thought was that someone who was learning about the dci champions discovery may take them down a few different paths: a) who the corps are who have won?, b) who won for a given year?, or c) who has won how many? All of which are addressed (to some degree) by having the years in there in addition to the names. How about this for now? I'll go back in and put in hard breaks every three corps (it originally was 2. your edit put them at 4) and let's see if anyone else speaks up about having a preference. Gwguffey (talk) 04:03, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. If BD wins next season, I think it becomes very easy: bump cadets down one row, then bump phantom down to the bottom row giving more overall balance. If you disagree strongly about any of this, go in remove the hard breaks. Gwguffey (talk) 04:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

sweet. nice working with you. Gwguffey (talk) 05:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Userbox for WDC

Has there been work done on a userbox for wikiproject drum corps? If not, I have made my own for my userpage that could be converted over to a project template if there is interest. Take a look and let me know what you think: User:Gwguffey/Userboxes/User WikiProject WDC
-Gwguffey (talk) 04:57, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Did you take a peek at the one on my user page as a possibility?
-Gwguffey (talk) 20:14, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Then we probably should find a new image for the overall project templates to replace the Cavie one and then use that one on the userbox, too
-Gwguffey (talk) 20:46, 20 December 2007 (UTC)