User talk:Nicweber

Speedy delete tags

Why are you adding speedy delete tags to articles that clearly do not warrant them, like the one in my watchlist, Hicham Aaboubou? I don't understand your intention. JonBroxton (talk) 23:06, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Seconded. Please stop abusing the speedy deletion process. Use WP:AFD where appropriate. -- œ^™ 00:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked for disruptive behaviour. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 00:52, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Notability is not inherited. The league is notable, but Hicham Aâboubou is not. I repeat notability is NOT inherited. Just because someone plays in a notable league does not make them notable. Hicham Aâboubou has very little news written about him. Most of the articles are about the teams he plays on with his named only mentioned in passing. Nicweber (talk) 06:53, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

The issue is with you using WP:CSD where you should be using WP:AFD where users can properly discuss this. Nominate the article at WP:AfD and make your argument there. -- œ^™ 07:15, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Taking Hicham Aâboubou to AfD would be pointless anyway. He is notable because he is a professional soccer player who has played numerous competitive games for a several professional teams, and as such passes WP:NSPORT. You're completely misunderstanding the whole "notability is not inherited" thing. Aâboubou is notable in his own right as per his multiple fully pro games. JonBroxton (talk) 07:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Hicham Aâboubou

Hello Nicweber. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Hicham Aâboubou, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Playing in a notable league indicates importance/significance. Thank you. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 23:48, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Notability is not inherited. The league is notable, but Hicham Aâboubou is not. I repeat notability is NOT inherited. Just because someone plays in a notable league does not make them notable. Hicham Aâboubou has very little news written about him. Most of the articles are about the teams he plays on with his named only mentioned in passing. Nicweber* ^۩ 08:38, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

You don't need to copy messages you leave on your talk page onto my talk page - I have this on my watchlist, so I will see that you have responded. If you really want to let me know, just leave a talkback notice on my page!

As has been mentioned above, professional sports people meet the basic notability guidelines (certainly sufficient to avoid being speedily deleted) if they have played (or managed) a professional sports team. You say that he has very little news written about him, but the mentions are about him playing.

Some free advice:

1. If you want to nominate something for deletion, read WP:CSD for speedy deletion criteria, WP:PROD for PROD criteria and WP:AFD for Articles for deletion criteria. Also read both the general notability guidelines and subject-specific guidelines (such as the Sport's persons' critera)
2. Rather than being pissed off about the article about your brother being deleted, and being disruptive and point, spend the time arranging interviews for your brother with the New York Times, the Washington Post, the London Times, the Guardian, CNN, BBC, etc, etc - if you could get a couple of those giving significant coverage (i.e. an article about him, not just something based on press releases, or a brief mention of him as a drummer - which the references on the article had - there was nothing significant mentioned about Brad, the articles were about the band as a whole), then you would have enough to ensure that he would meet the criteria for inclusion!

Please stop being disruptive - we get the point that you don't like the deletion of the article about your brother, but that does not give you the right to act in such a silly manner. If you continue to do so, I will leave a message at the Admin's noticeboard to ask an uninvolved admin to look into this, and suggest that you be given a block from editing Wikipedia for a short while. Now, I really don't want to do that - I'd rather you used your time being constructive, and adding to current articles.

Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 09:08, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

How does the mere act or participation in a sports team make you a notable figure. The very notion that we have thousands of "notable" soccer players worldwide seems bizarre to me. Can you help on this one? I don't understand how playing for a top grammy/juno award winning band/orchestra means you aren't notable. Yet if you are on some second rate euro-league team you are notable. Explain? In response to Tosin Abasi you said "Being or having been member of a notable band indicates importance/significance". This point was shot down when discussing a much more notable band than Tosin Abasi has ever played in. The arguments being that notability is not inherited. Explain your rationale. :Nicweber* ^۩ 09:11, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Others have raised the same issue regarding inherent notability, but if you want to discuss it and possibly effect change in Wikipedia's policies, the proper place to do that is Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). Raise your argument there and you may find that some will agree with you, and things may change. But until then, we work within our current guidelines and established community norms. -- œ^™ 09:28, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

To be honest, there are lots of people who have articles on Wikipedia which I see and think "Huh? How does that make them notable?" - but we have guidelines about notability. At the moment, the ones on sportspeople says that if they play at a professional level, they meet the criteria for inclusion. Personally, I'd have no objection to a tightening up of the guidelines, and if they are tightened up then obviously that will affect the outcome of some future SDs/PRODs/AfDs. At the moment, we have the guidelines we have, and I try to impartially use them to decide whether an article should be deleted or not.

Can I also apologise for my tone in a couple of my messages - whether my impressions of your motivation is accurate or not, I have been a bit rude, for which I apologise. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 09:35, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

• I meant to add this, and clicked on "save" before I typed it... above, you ask In response to Tosin Abasi you said "Being or having been member of a notable band indicates importance/significance". - that was connected with a Speedy Deletion nomination. In that regard, the indication of importance/significance is sufficient to prevent it being speedily deleted - that does not mean that the article should not be deleted at all, just that it should not be speedily deleted. In that case, it should either be PRODed (which gives people a week or 10 days to object) or taken to AfD (which gives the community a week to discuss it and reach a consensus). Some articles for which I have declined a speedy deletion nomination I have gone on to either PROD or take to AfD, as I agreed that they were unsuitable for inclusion on Wikipedia - but they were not eligible for Speedy Deletion, as the criteria for that are very strict - purely because it is speedy, and there is no chance for a discussion on the talk page (in the case of a PROD) or at AfD. I hope this will clarify why oe said that! PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 09:40, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

• Concur with above, and was just about to say the same thing until I got an edit conflict. :) Anyways, as Phantomsteve mentions above, please stop tagging articles for speedy deletion where it is not warranted. Speedy deletion has very stringent requirements and is only for blatantly obvious cases. Using it willy-nilly, or just because you want to prove a point is very disruptive. If there is the slightest doubt that the person may be notable you must use either WP:PROD or WP:AFD. -- œ^™ 09:49, 26 April 2011 (UTC)