User talk:Orlady/Archive 1

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Talk page comments from 1 December 2006 through 1 July 2007

Center for Earth Resources Observation and Science[edit]

Thanks for adding the link to Center for Earth Resources Observation and Science into Area 51; I was beginning to wonder if the original source was correct in saying the image archive was in a rather unlikely place like Sioux Falls. Regarding your question on the Sioux Falls talk page - yes, that the Sioux Falls article absolutely should link to the C-EROS article. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

East Rock[edit]

Ok Fix the taging at the discussion page you set up. I do not have the log on info at work and that was were I was posting from. This is not just a Neigborhood thing it is a history thing. We are working on some more profetional reserchers it is just that it cost alot, so we are trying to get the funding for it right now (who knows how long that will take) I did post some info at the page you set up Thank you. --Happypixie 00:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edits to Davidson County, Tennessee[edit]

Hi Orlady, it seems we meet again. Anyway about Davidson County: the convention on county articles is that we usually only list incorporated towns and cities. Primarily because these articles were originally generated from census records (and are automatically updated each census), and secondarily to have some kind of definite threshold (what constitutes a "town"?). The category for each county, however, includes everything. Hope that makes sense. Kaldari 21:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dictionary of the Irish Language[edit]

Thanks for the query, orlady. I have added the following reference to the Esker article:

  • Quin, E. G. (gen. ed.) (1983). Dictionary of the Irish Language. Dublin: Royal Irish Academy. p. 281. ISBN 0 901714 29 1. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

My copy of the book in question is the compact edition. The dictionary is "based mainly on Old and Middle Irish material".

Here is an amazon.co.uk link to the dictionary:

Amazon

Eroica 08:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jackson, Tennessee library[edit]

What was the point of those (ineptly) added links? Have privateers stolen my old friend the JMCL? Orange Mike 17:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC) (a Jackson native, JSCC grad, etc.)[reply]

Hi, Orangemike. Those ineptly added links did nothing for me either, but it appears (based on a websearch) that the JMCL has been privatized. And yes, some local folks might agree with your use of the word "privateers" to describe the private company that is now operating the library. I posted at User talk:12.124.83.90 in hopes that the person who added those links will come back and write up the story properly. --orlady 17:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
My heart aches for the good people who work there (or at least used to). I have no more use for privateering scum than I do for unionbusters and other fiduciary rapists. (Which is part of why I can no longer abide to live in Tennessee, but moved to Wisconsin in 1977.) --Orange Mike 17:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC) (a Tennessee boy in exile; not sure if I'll even be buried there)[reply]

In your encyclopedic travels ...[edit]

This article, Army Nuclear Power Program, is sadly in need of fleshing out. If you come across anything about the program in your other article research, you might sitck on the talk page (or even add to the article).

Then there's stuff on the Air Force's effort which overlooks some Oak Ridge work on air force applications. It seems to be scattered across a number of independently created articles:

and a few references:

Some of these references may be useful to your Oak Ridge work. --A. B. (talk) 18:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ouch! I see that there are distinct needs for article-writing efforts. http://www.fas.org/nuke/space/anp-gao1963 (a 197-page GAO report) looks like a good resource on aircraft nuclear propulsion. Another amazing topic related to the aircraft nuclear propulsion is the Tower Shielding Facility (see http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/61946.pdf and http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=303930 ). --orlady 18:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good Job![edit]

File:SpongeBob BarnStar.PNGThe SpongeBob Star is given to you for your work on the English Wikipedia. Awarded by Buttboy666 23:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CMOR[edit]

Nice job on Children's Museum of Oak Ridge; thanks. I've been wanting to start an article on the museum, but I work there now so I figured I shouldn't. (I figure there's a decent chance you're actually someone I know... if so, hello.) --Allen 04:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New York Religion Information[edit]

orlady, thanks for finding that - I had been on the hunt for it ever since it got blanked a few days ago. I have taken the liberty of adding some links and the citation to the reference section. Alucard (Dr.) 16:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Morristown, TN.[edit]

Thank you. :)

Mostly the two books I added at the bottom of the article. Cora's book has two direct quotes in the text I added. Mr. Hill has written a million and one words on the history of Morristown and the area in general, but he died a few decades ago so some of the information is a bit dated. The other book was published in 1936, so it is an excellent source for really old data, but nothing recent. Both authors are, as far as I can find, only available at the Morristown-Hamblen Library or the Courthouse records archive. The OCLC database does not even list them.

As far as John Hendrix is concerned, well, I heard more than a few tales of Appalachian prophesying when I lived in Tennessee. Anything from the Second Coming beginning in Georgia, to the 'little white people' living in the Blue Ridge Mtns. who would eventually reclaim the land from the Europeans, and even wilder stuff. I look forward to the more reliable cites of Hendrix's own piece of prophecy fame. The tale itself is rather interesting, but personal web page gnosis does not make the cut here, which I know you know already.

merge tags[edit]

Hi, you can remove the merge tags if you'd like. Also, can you help build up the trooper stub?

My aunt and uncle lived in Oak Ridge, he was a scientist there during the war, my aunt still lives there! :)

Chris 22:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Confused re: 68.9.27.174[edit]

Hi, orlady -

Yes indeed, the template I left on User talk:68.9.27.174 was about recent vandalism. I took the template from Wikipedia:Template_messages/User_talk_namespace (my first time doing so) but must have chosen the wrong one. Please replace it if there is a better one.

Regards, --sony-youthtalk 08:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

blue book[edit]

no great insistance. Put where you want. Hmains 22:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks[edit]

Hi, Orlady. Thanks for partially-reverting my edits to Johnson City, Tennessee. I should probably avoid editing when I'm feeling angry at spammers and vandals. :( --Takeel 23:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

states[edit]

Courts: I have been putting all articles dealing with state law and state courts and their judges under the 'foo law' sub-category for each US 'foo' state. This at least puts everything involving law and its administration in one place. While the courts are of course part of 'government', in some states their articles were so dominating the government category, that the executive and legislative articles were losing out. I can certainly see putting a 'see also' notice at the top of each 'government of foo' category to point to the 'foo law' category.

Politics: Same with 'politics' and 'politicians'. I am putting all these in the 'Politics of foo' subcategory, which seems to me where they belong. This leaves the government category to cover the executive and legislative branch organizations and policies which seems to be quite enough. Certainly, however, many more articles need to be written.

Communications: Communications, of course, encompasses media, and also telephone (area codes) and mail (zip codes) and internet, etc. I see no differenece to be made at the US level versus the state level. Not sure that media is of such overwhelming importance at the state level, however, that it needs to be in multiple places or at the state level.

Thanks Hmains 00:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category: behavior modification[edit]

In fact there is a category called behavior modification. Why remove it?

Covergaard 19:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then what about [[1]]

Covergaard 20:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category adjustment[edit]

I have adjusted the category [2]

How do you see it now?

Covergaard 19:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have another problem with a institution that edit themselves falsely[edit]

It is about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Association_of_Accredited_Schools

It is a bogus firm that claims to accredit schools, but they are not recognized by the U.S. Department of education. The result is that we employers in Europe are very reluctant to hire a person from the States, because we dont know whether the claimed education is for real.

You can see that the last two edits are made by a user called NAAS02 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?Title=Northwest_Association_of_Accredited_Schools&action=history

They are editing themselves, leaving out the very important fact about them not being recognized. What can be done about that?

Covergaard 21:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cable TV commercial spam issue[edit]

orlady - I've taken the liberty of trying to summarize the views of the responders thus far to this issue here. Would you be kind enough to double-check my summary of your views, and supplement or correct them as necessary.

It appears that [[User:Bill Clark]] is continuing to argue his points with some tenacity, despite the fact that the responses thus far appear to be leaning firmly against his views.

Thanks for your input on this - frankly, I am worried about "opening the door" to this kind of commercial spam - others will want in as well because the "precedent has been set"! Spamreporter1 07:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

[[User:Bill Clark]] has posted still another proposal which in my view is no better than his earlier efforts. Would you be kind enough to offer your observation of this latest? Spamreporter1 18:53, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Orlady, you're very familiar with both DMOZ and this whole issue -- if you get the chance, could you take a look at the proposal, perhaps too late, that I left at User talk:Bill Clark#Lists of utilities and let me know your thoughts? (Especially the DMOZ part). Thanks, --A. B. (talk) 16:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Salvatore Lima and Category:Political bosses[edit]

Hi, I did remove Lima, because the Category Political Bosses is, as you pointed out, a very American phenomenon. I did not think Lima belonged there. In Italy this is no "category". Italian political figures with links to the Mafia are listed in the Category:Mafia associates of Italy. - Mafia Expert 08:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi[edit]

Just passing through. —Moondyne 16:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Appalachia Page (see Talk:Appalachia)[edit]

The part of the article I had problems with was the reference to "The Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition." It sounded to me like someone supporting that group put the content in to "plug" their group. Personally, I think "Strip Mining" in general is POV term. Surface Mining is the more neutral term. 199.248.201.253 20:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Neutral"? It's a euphemism; I've never seen the term "surface mining" used by anybody not associated with the mining industry. I certainly treat its appearance as a flag to look out for industry involvement in the discussion.--Orange Mike 21:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
LOL. The term does appear in the name of the federal Office of Surface Mining regulatory agency as well as in the name of the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act (SMCRA), which aren't officially part of the mining industry. --orlady 22:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Grace Moore[edit]

Hey! Where anywhere does it say she was born in 1901? Every other source I've seen has said 1898.
NewYork1956 00:27, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I see you have done a lot of work to the article, thanks. I took a look at the article the way it was the first time I edited it and compared it to now and it's much better.
NewYork1956 04:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Elm City[edit]

You've given me too much credit. I was a bit tired (physically) and frustrated (understandably) and, frankly, goofed. Go ahead and revert me, if you would like, but Dutch Elm and New Haven losing its elms -- even if it has some back -- those are details that deserve to be mentioned. Jd2718 23:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WWASP[edit]

Whats wrong with you? You completely remove the fact that the two facilities, Casa By The Sea and High Impact were shut down because of abuse. Is that an irrelevant fact that to even Mexican standards those facilities were found to be abusive. Please explain the rational, i'm very curious as to why you think those facts don't matter.--Lettruthreign 06:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sources from the deleted version of Casa By The Sea dumped on the talk page. Please evaluate which, if any, are reliable. (All were at weblinks.) GRBerry 02:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted Link on Clay County page[edit]

(→External links - delete link to dalehollowlake.com -- eliminated need for it with link to Dale Hollow category)

I re-added the link for the website listed above. The Clay County Tourism Board is the official tourism agency for CLAY COUNTY. That website lists not only info about Dale Hollow Lake, which indeed is a major driver of tourism for the county, but also about community events, history, activities and people.

The other website listed is the CHAMBER OF COMMERCE....which is about business, not pleasure.

Thanks. 12.153.14.27 02:59, 11 March 2007 (UTC) MR, Clay County Resident[reply]

Parks[edit]

I've been having a discussion about the park statistics with a few others as well. I was checking out the pages of all the parks and saw that most of the figures were from 2002 or 2003. However, when I decided to update them, I saw a problem with the numbers. The pages of some parks were reporting 'recreational visitors' while others were showing 'total visitors.' This information needs to be standardized, and I decided to update all to 2005 total stats. However, if there is a consensus (against me, as per usual on here!), then change it back. It's fine either way. I just want to have consistancy, so that the website can be as accurate as possible. Mr. Vitale 04:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Below is the message I posted to VitaleBaby and that he responded to--orlady 04:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Counting protocol for national park visitors

I also was very confused by the visitor count you posted for the Great Smokies. Looking at http://www2.nature.nps.gov/stats/abst2005.pdf I conclude that you have replaced numbers for "recreational visitors" with numbers for "total visitors," which latter number includes a lot of people who drive through the park without stopping (in the Smokies, they probably are going to and from an Indian casino).

Was this change in approach discussed somewhere that I haven't found yet?? If it's going to be implemented across the parks, it ought to be discussed... I can see merit in reporting both numbers in articles, but frankly I think most people are more interested in "recreational visitors" than in "total." (In fact, in that statistical report the Park Service doesn't bother to sum the rec and non-rec numbers to get a total -- I guess you had to do this yourself.) Can you explain your reasons somewhere that other contributors will be able to find it in the future? I'd prefer to go back to "rec" visitors in the infoboxes... --orlady 03:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Sorry about that[edit]

I was still logged on when my brother decided to cause some mischief. I'll try not to let that happen again.

N.B.Forrest[edit]

Although Forrest was the first Grand Wizard/Dragon of the KKK, he was nominated as such by the founders of that organization at the 1867 convention and was thus acclaimed to that position. Best Regards, Hamster Sandwich 17:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

National Parks[edit]

Hi - I agree that the debate should be brought to a more public place. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Protected_areas is probably the best locale. I agree with VitaleBaby that consistency is key, so getting consensus on the matter is best. I'm not exactly an expert in this subject, I just happened to notice that VitaleBaby changed the 2005 number on Grand Teton National Park to a much larger number then 2004, and so here we are. I really have no opinion on which number is best - I think they both have their merits (3 million people passing through, say, Yellowstone, has an effect on the park, even if they don't all stop and look at the geysers, but it is a poor indication of the "popularity" of the park). - CosmicPenguin (Talk) 01:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TN Wikiproject[edit]

Hello, I saw you have made a lot of Tennessee-related edits, would you be interested in joining WikiProject Tennessee? Thanks --AW 19:44, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Site Suggestion on TN Historic Homes[edit]

The site suggestion is terrific. I appreciate it, and will work on it as I have time.--Baxterguy 12:19, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply[edit]

I know User:^demonBot2 can orphan a template, I don't know if it can selctively remove. You might want to leave a note on the bot's talk page or with bot's owner (^demon. John Reaves (talk) 04:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Youth[edit]

First, I just undid your edit on Youth without commenting, and I'm not sure how to go back to add a comment. If you could share with me how to do that I'd appreciate that. Second, I completely disagree with your edits. See Talk:Youth. - Freechild 15:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thought I'd ask you for your wisdom before I did anything, um, dumb: I think a template for "discrimination against young people" would be useful. I would include Ageism, Adultism, Adultcentrism, Fear of childbirth, Fear of children and Fear of youth. But that probably is not a legitimate template "need", is it? I want to be bold, but I know I need to learn about these things still. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. - Freechild 08:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your feedback - I really appreciate it. It might actually sound awkward, but I don't actually believe that that adultism or adultcentrism are always bad, per se. I don't want bars to be made up like high school locker rooms, or my clothes to look like a teenagers'. That much said, ephebiphobia is never good, per se. Anyway, I do see your point about a broader template along the lines of Perspectives of Youth, or some such thing. I'll mull it over. Thanks again for your input - I value anyone willing to have some constructive conversation around here - it seems to be hard to find. - Freechild 16:49, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Status is "A person’s position or standing relative to that of others," with relative being the operative word here, because what is relative depends on judgment[3]. Perspective is the choice of a single point of view from which to sense, categorize, measure or codify experience[4]. To further muddy things up, this conversation is a matter of perspective - which relies on how you and I see things. It is not dependent upon status, which implies an order of priority, rank or privilege. Any statement about the "status" of youth would do the same thing. - Freechild 18:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The irony of a WP editor not relying on Wiktionary should not be escaped. Anyhow, thanks for your input - I will keep it in mind if I choose to develop that template. - Freechild 18:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Bot Question[edit]

Ok, just to make sure I understand what you want. You want to just make sure the template is only on the pages that are listed in the template, but no others? ^demon[omg plz] 01:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, could you get me a link to the TFD in question. Just wanting to make sure there's consensus before I make unilateral moves like that. ^demon[omg plz] 01:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of Accreditation Governing Commission of the United States of America[edit]

An editor has nominated Accreditation Governing Commission of the United States of America, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Accreditation Governing Commission of the United States of America and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 16:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me ??[edit]

Excuse me ? vandalism , did you know that dmoz-resource-zone.com has moved to dmoz-resource.com ? How is that vandalism, please explain clearly, and before you accuse someone better look at the urls properly. Wonder if you are doing the vandalism around this part of the town. So you better stop and check before you call your shots. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Coolbunny (talk • contribs) 18:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adam Fletcher (2nd nomination)[edit]

You seemed to be panicking somewhat about this nomination. I have cleaned it up for you, you just had to manually correct the links. Happy editing! J Milburn 18:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Query[edit]

Hey, orlady, are you from Happy Valley, Oak Ridge, Tennessee or affiliated with Oak Ridge National Laboratory? (Your "handle" and the close alignment of your interests with the place and laboratory's interests makes that seem likely.) If so, do be mindful of Wikipedia:Conflict of interest (and related guidelines such as Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and Wikipedia:No original research). It's tough to do an objective job on topics that one is exceptionally passionate about. Interactions with folks like me might go more smoothly if you disclosed your personal connections with specific articles. (For what it's worth, I stay anonymous around here, but most of my work has been on things about which I have at most only peripheral interest.) - Freechild 15:21, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Freechild, are you suggesting that I had a conflict of interest when I moved one article and wrote another in order to correct confusion about two different Tennessee locations (one a US Army trailer community that was disbanded ca. 1950, the other an unincorporated rural area about 50 miles from the first) named "Happy Valley"? I live in Oak Ridge, where the trailer community was formerly located; are you suggesting that because I live in Oak Ridge I am passionate about this long-ago-disbanded trailer community and should not have corrected egregious errors in the unsourced article about that community that someone else wrote? You say that "Interactions with folks like [yourself] might go more smoothly if [I] disclosed [my] personal connections with specific articles," but no one has suggested that I am displaying excessive POV in my edits of articles such as Happy Valley, Oak Ridge, Tennessee and Oak Ridge National Laboratory.--orlady 16:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I want to rescind my comment above. It was unfair and not particularly civil. Thank you for your feedback and suggestion; I will work on this in the near future. - Freechild 14:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Grace Moore's Year Of Birth[edit]

Hi again!
Someone's removed all the references to Grace having been born in 1901. I have some compelling evidence that she actually was born in 1901 (http://s3.amazonaws.com/findagrave/photos/2001/222/mooregrace2.jpg). What do you think?
NewYork1956 05:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know, I always thought that she was born in 1898 too, but now that I've seen her gravestone I've changed my mind. I highly doubt her family would have lied about her year of birth on her gravestone of all places!
NewYork1956 07:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I suppose a different century can be the difference between old and young.
NewYork1956 05:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dashes[edit]

Why did you replace "word—word" with "word -- word" in this edit? This should clearly not be hyphens, it should be em-dashes. Also, it is allowed to place them beside words without spaces. Take a look at Dash#Em_dash this page. I undid your dash-edits. Thanks in advance. --Ysangkok 16:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Youth[edit]

Thanks for the heads-up on the redundancy; I fixed it. - Freechild 04:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, per our previous conversations I decided to avoid creating a problematic template and went ahead with a List of youth topics. - Freechild 16:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aspen Achievement Academy[edit]

Steel359 replaced some of "detainees" with "adolescent", but he only did the job half, because he did not choose to replace "students" with "adolescent" and by this halfdone work the article becomes biased. As you can read the suvivors of the program certainly does not see themselves as students but rather as being detained there. I can not edit the article. I have tried to replace both terms before and it got reverted. I respect your work and somehow I also think that the group of Aspen advocates does. Please try to make the article more NPOV by removing the term "students" from the article - at least out of respect for the suvivors who had their lives destroyed.

Covergaard 05:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chattanooga Task Force[edit]

Orlday, would you be interested in joining the Chattanooga Task Force at WP:TN? Qmax 01:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Expand tag[edit]

In reference to eco-cemetary, my bad, i must have made a misjudgment in the length... in reference to the concordia university... also as i did honestly think it was a university, i thought it would need more content, and as for the hospital thing, i dont see why there cant be more info bout hospital, but as it's still developing it will more than suffice and that "current event tag" will actually do. Thanks for making my corrections...feel free to check the other 100?! LOl cya. petze 12:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for double checking and the positive comment. Shall continue to improve my wikipedia editing skills. Cya later.petze 07:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Concordia College and University[edit]

Blocked all three revert-warring IP addresses for 48 hours, you'll be glad to know. Let me know if they return. Ironic, considering I was the admin who declined semi-protection :) - Alison ☺ 00:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Scopes Trial[edit]

I noticed that you removed the banner

that I placed on a section in the article Scopes Trial. However you seem not to have read the commentary I put on the talk page. I would very much appreciate it if you could consider what I had to say and respond on the talk page before simply reverting my contributions. I'll look forward to reading what you have to say about my concerns. -Ipoellet 18:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

wwasp[edit]

The Czech program directors were arrested, but its another source and I don't know if you can double ref that, but its the source #7 on the WWASP page. The external link is [5] and any tips for keeping the facts on why these programs were closed on the page. Thank you for your help.

Your article[edit]

I'll keep it mind; after all, I got sysopped only yesterday, and I'm sure I'm quite prone to making mistakes. --Evilclown93(talk) 13:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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