User talk:Peto Australis

{{helpme}} Hi editor(s), I really need some (lots of) help. I am trying to become an active contributor to the Wikipedia but so far things aren't looking promising. In my first attempt at contributing I was putting an entry in the acronyms section about the Victorian CASAs (http://www.casa.org.au) and got the message below. CASAs are assault centres for victims of well... all the words associated with what they do seems to get me reported. I would be really grateful if someone could assist me in getting started. Thank you. Peto Australis (talk) 05:05, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Please see the instructions below re. "report a false positive" and "feel free to make your edit again after reporting it". Also, I'll put a menu of help on this page. Thanks, --  Chzz  ►  05:28, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

March 2009

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to CASA, did not appear to be constructive and has been automatically reverted by ClueBot. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you believe there has been a mistake and would like to report a false positive, please report it here and then remove this warning from your talk page. If your edit was not vandalism, please feel free to make your edit again after reporting it. The following is the log entry regarding this warning: CASA was changed by Peto Australis (u) (t) making a minor change with obscenities on 2009-03-16T02:30:17+00:00 . Thank you. ClueBot (talk) 02:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Welcome

Welcome to Wikipedia! Hello, Peto Australis. Welcome to Wikipedia! I noticed you've just joined, and wanted to give you a few tips to get you started. You don't need to read anything - anybody can edit on wikipedia, so, if you like, just go to an article and edit it. Be Bold, and ignore all rules, but please don't put silly stuff in - it will be removed very quickly, and will annoy people. I suggest that you try to improve a few articles first, before you make your own. Maybe look at some subjects that you know about, and see if you can make them a bit better. When you're ready, read about Your first article. It should be about something well-known, and it will need references. If you need help, please ask! Edit this page, put {{helpme}} and describe what help you need. Someone will reply very quickly - usually within a few minutes. Good luck with editing; please drop me a line some time on my own talk page. If you want to know more, there's lots of information below. Once again, welcome to the fantastic world of wikipedia! --  Chzz  ►  Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Grade sources • Cite sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists • Best articles Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Pages needing attention • Peer review The missing manual

talkback

Hello, Peto Australis. You have new messages at Chzz's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

CASA

Looks good, almost ready to go live, I'd say.

I'm going to take the liberty of making a couple of edits, which I hope you'll approve of; I'll explain why in the edit summaries. (Note, usually people won't edit articles in your own area without 'permission' - but once it goes live, it's up for anyone to have a go.)

It would be helpful if you could find a secondary reference - i.e. one not connected to the company, perhaps a newspaper article. This would help with notability - just to pre-empt any criticism.

To develop it, it would be really useful to use an WP:infobox at the beginning, which always makes articles look more 'polished'. To find which would be suitable, the best approach is to look at similar articles, and copy theirs. Particularly, look at featured articles and good articles on similar topics; these will probably give you lots of ideas.

You might also try to find a wikipedia project within the area - talking to the people there could help, and they might be able to help develop it further.

Good luck, and feel free to ask anything else. --  Chzz  ►  02:15, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I suggest you change the lede (that's the first bit) to give a more generic, encyclopaedic description. Assume the reader knows nothing, and give an overview of the whole piece - so the very first thing you need to say is something like "CASA is a voluntary support service for victims of sexual assault, based in Victoria, south eastern Australia." Something like that.--  Chzz  ►  02:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

P.P.S. I would also recommend you carefully read WP:COI and WP:BESTCOI. I'm sorry to direct you to such lengthy documents, I don't want to put you off editing in any way, but it may avoid issues further down the line, if you adhere to those. Note that the former is a Wikipedia policy, so could be used directly to suggest deletion etc if not followed; the latter is a guide, so not necessarily to be taken as gospel or anything. IE, in this case, I don't see a problem with you creating the article, however I advise caution regarding future edits etc, and recommend following the suggestions of using the talk page to suggest contributions. (I'd also stronggly recommend involvement in editing other articles, and projects, which always enamors your to the community!) (As always, this is IMHO, YMMV, etc) --  Chzz  ►  02:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Linking

You can link anything to any article, like this;

[[articlename|any text you like]]

For example, the following is a link to an article entitled, "Eastwood, Nottinghamshire": Eastwood.

Hope this helps, cheers! --  Chzz  ►  23:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Realised now the above might not fully clarify;

In articles, you can use the above technique to alter spelling; e.g. to link color to colour use [[Colour|color]]. It doesn't matter if you use British English or American English, as long as you're consistent within the article.

For articles names themselves, use WP:REDIRECT pages.

Cheers, --  Chzz  ►  01:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Dipping toes

Brrr

A great place to get involved with Wikipedia, and to learn about how it works, is the community portal. --  Chzz  ►  00:27, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

New page

Hello again. Per procedure regards COI, to avoid any possible problems, I suggest the following;

• Create the new page in your own user area first, so that I, or ather users, can have a look at it and make sure it is balanced, neutral, etc. For example, go to User:Peto Australis/newpage, create that page, and put it there.

Let me know and I will try to look at it ASAP.

Thanks, --  Chzz  ►  15:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Comments on new page

• Pages should always start with the subject, so instead of;

In Victoria (Australia) the Centres Against Sexual Assault are...

put something like

Centres Against Sexual Assault in Victoria (Australia) are...

• Add more wikilinks to the main body, to relevant articles - example, Telephone counseling.
• I'm not convinced that the "Being believed" part should go in this article - it should probably go in an article about counseling, as it's not specific to CASA. Consider moving it to another article. Also, "CASAs believe it is important all victim/survivors that come to their centres are met with belief and compassion" does sound a bit 'spammy'.
• CASA philosophy - this also reads too much like an advert; "the peak body" - who says? etc. I'd probably recommend deleting that section.
• Advocacy - change "in the last 12 months" to specify the date (otherwise it won't make sense in a few months time)
• Education - reference links should only be used to back up facts, not to link to other external websites. The websites of these organisations are not directly related to the topic of this article, so remove them. Be very careful when using external links - if they aren't very directly related to an article, they wilol be removed. Your article should probably just have one - to the CASA website.
• History - don't put 'condensed from...' - instead, rewrite it in an encyclopaedic way, and use the source as a reference. That section needs a lot of work - for example, "Victorian Government withheld funding from the Rape Crisis Centre due to a disagreement" - you can't state that sort of thing without reliable, secondary sources - ie not just by referencing CASA material. If the fact isn't in a newspaper or similar, then you'll have to remove it. That's an example, that probably applies to most of that section.

I hope you'll find these comments useful; sorry if it sounds harsh, but probably better for me to tell you, now, than for the article to be deleted later.

Good luck with it; let me know when you need more.

I also reiterate - if you get involved with editing other articles on Wikipedia, you'll get a lot more help on this article from others. Remember - this is not "your" article, any more than any other on Wikipedia - other people WILL edit it. This is a GOOD THING :-) It's often a harsh process, but at the end it usually results in a better article.

I think you'll understand things a lot more if you dive in and edit some other articles on Wikipedia.

By the way, although it is noted in the helpme template, you may not be aware that the talk to us live thing really works; there's several people, including myself, sitting there all the time, more than happy to help users with any Wikipedia questions. Pop in and say "hi" some time.

Cheers, --  Chzz  ►  15:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

{{helpme}} CASA - Hi Chzz, I hope I have done this right, it's been a while since I've been on here so I'm sorry if my protocols are a bit out. The CASA article has a note pined to it that says “This article needs additional citations for verification.” This is the information that I think might be relevant. What are your thoughts?

CASAs are government-funded organizations which work against sexual assault. The services that CASAs offer are free and available to all victim/survivors. They are based on respecting the rights of all victims/survivors of sexual assault. From: http://www.cyf.vic.gov.au/family-violence-sexual-assault/library/links/casa_forum

Standards of Practice for Victorian Centres Against Sexual Assault http://www.cyf.vic.gov.au/family-violence-sexual-assault/library/publications/standards_of_practice_casa

Locations of CASAs http://www.cyf.vic.gov.au/family-violence-sexual-assault/assault

CASAs also work closely with the Victoria police Sexual Offences & Child Abuse Units (SOCA). These are staffed by experienced and qualified police members specially trained to assist with responding to and investigating adult sexual assault and child abuse. http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=757 Thank you again. Peto Peto Australis (talk) 00:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi. For the first 3 refs, I'm not sure that these are truly independent - are they? I mean, were they either written by CASA themselves, or funded by them?

The 4th does mention CASA, but only v briefly; I'm not convinved that it verifies all the facts given.

Hope this helps - and, more importantly, I hope that you might consider editing some other articles!  Chzz  ►  01:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Peto Australis. You have new messages at Phantomsteve's talk page.
Message added 08:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

More references

Hi Phantomsteve, it's really hard to get references that satisfy all the criteria. The reasons for this are as follows. First the CASA's are the authority, peak body, major service provider for sexual assault services in Victoria. Therefore most research to do with this subject has been written/sponsored by them. Second, there are 15 different centres and most information about a casa is not about the peak body, but about a specific casa eg south eastern casa. Last, the most well regarded/authoritative sources of information about sexual assault are government bodies such as the Australian Institute of Family studies, the Victoria Police, the Australian Institute of Criminology etc. However my understanding of Chzz's comments is that because these are government sources they can't be called 'independent'.

The media do not tend to write in depth pieces 'about' the organisation that supports the survivors ie the casa's, they write about sexual assault and may get someone from one of the casas to comment on that case/topic. A piece may have something like 'if you've been sexually assaulted contact a casa on 1800 806 292' or words to that effect at the end.

However I have done my best to find some references which not only mention the CASAs, but also give a bit of a description about what they do. I am hoping some of them will be useable.

http://www.services.unimelb.edu.au/counsel/emergencies/assault.html The University of Melbourne Counselling Service

Kathy Bowlen interviews Deb Bryant from CASA, about the Geoff Clark trial Stateline - ABC http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/vic/content/2005/s1368262.htm

The Making of Domestic Violence Policy by the Australian Commonwealth Government and the Government of the State of New South Wales between 1970 and 1985: An Analytical Narrative of Feminist Policy Activism http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/handle/2123/724

Re-inventing rape : an analysis of legal, medical, feminist and governmental discourses http://arrowprod.lib.monash.edu.au:8080/vital/access/manager/Repository/monash:6165

Promising Practice Programs http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/ppdb/casaf_vic.html

The fourth wave continued - the incorporation of services for young peolpe with sexually abusive behavours into centres against sexula assault (conference paper) http://www.vota.org.au/conference/Worth_Carolyn.pdf

Quick thought, do you think it might be useful to have this discussion on the casa discussion page instead of on my talk page?

Peto Australis (talk) 01:11, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

• Good timing! I was just doing a quick check of my wtachlist before I went to bed.

OK, I'm going to start with the 4 refs provided before for Chzz. As they said, the first 3 (all from the same organisation) may or may not be a suitable source - you didn't answer their question: basically, is the text on that .gov.au site provided by CASA? Reading it, it appears so - in which case, it's not an independent source, as they are just putting up what CASA gave them.

With regard to the police ref, as Chzz said, it's a very brief mention!

Moving onto your new refs:

1. The University of Melbourne Counselling Service: A very minor mention near the end - basically giving the location of one of the CASA centres
2. ABC interview: It's not about CASA itself. It would possibly be useful as a reference for the Geoff Clark (politician) article, but I'm not even sure it would be suitable there. It isnt suitable for the CASA article, though, as it is not about the organisation.
3. Sydney eScholarship Repository: This isn't about CASA. The only mention I could find is in the bibliography where "Women Against Violence: An Australian Feminist Journal" is listed.
4. Monash University ARROW Repository: Looking through this, I can't find mention of CASA. Again, it was a quick look, but if I missed it, just tell me what page(s) of the Thesis it is mentioned. The only place I could find the phrase "Against Sexual Assault" was on page 67 and in the refs on page 395, in the title of an article in a journal "Greek Sanctions Against Sexual Assault".
5. Promising Practice Programs: Going by the language in this, it was text provided by CASA themselves, rather than written by the ACSSA from their own knowledge ("Together we work ... "
6. The fourth wave continued: The information is good... but it is written by someone from CASA (Carolyn Worth, Manager, South Eastern Centre Against Sexual Assault), so is not independent!

The final source (fourth wave) is the best of the references, but as it's written by someone involved with the organisation, I'm not convinced that what you have here shows the inherant notability (from Wikipedia's point of view) of CASA.

Obviously, their work is essential, and I doubt that many editors would not agree with that - however, noble is not the same as notable.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel that the references provided are sufficient to show notability as per the guidelines.

Feel free to contact me again if you have any questions, but now I'm off to bed, as it's almost 2am here! -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 01:53, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

• • It might be an idea to move this to the article's talk page, as you suggested. If you feel confident in copying and pasting, feel free to do so - if not, let me know and I'll sort it out tomorrow morning (UTC)! -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 01:53, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

References 21 Dec 09

Some more references that I'm hoping might surfice. From: A Victim’s Voice Victim Impact Statements in Victoria: Executive Summary http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/DOJ+Internet/resources/file/eb0a4049f132e47/Ex_Summary.pdf Department of Justice Victoria website.

(Victim Impact Statements (VIS) are statements victims make about how the crime has impacted on them. These are read out in court and taken into account prior to sentencing of convicted offenders. There was recently a lot of community consultation about people's experiences of this process.)

(Page xii) "Both VACP services and CASAs consulted with by the Victims Support Agency (VSA) saw providing support to victims wishing to make a VIS as one of their key functions and generally provided information and practical assistance with the preparation of VISs as well as emotional support. Support workers noted that where victims found the VIS process difficult and needed support, they were best placed to provide this." (Page xv) "That victims’ service agencies (e.g. Victims Assistance and Counselling Program - VCAPs, and Centres Against Sexual Assault - CASAs) be the responsible agencies for supporting victims during the VIS process and to support this aim, that the VIS Working Group review VIS training to ensure: a. VACP services are equipped to provide a high standard of information and support to victims about the VIS process b. where required, VIS training is offered to other specialist services."

OR 'A good night for all’ Options for improving safety and amenity in inner city entertainment precincts http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/DOJ+Internet/resources/file/ebbeac0733cbff5/GoodNightForAll-ICEP.pdf Department of Justice Victoria Published by Crime Prevention Victoria, Department of Justice, Victoria on behalf of the Inner City Entertainment Precincts Taskforce.

Page 37 "Centre Against Sexual Assault (CASA) The CASA is a government funded organisation which offers victims of sexual assault: • emergency or crisis care • a twenty-four hour emergency or crisis care service to victims who have been recently assaulted • information and advocacy • information and support about legal choices, physical health concerns, safe accommodation • counselling and support • short-term individual or group counselling, telephone counselling and referrals, including information brochures about sexual assault."