User talk:Phogg2

Welcome

Hello, Phogg2! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Polly (Parrot) 22:16, 4 February 2008 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Links

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added to the page John Zachman do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a collection of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. [1] --Ronz (talk) 22:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

See also WP:COI --Ronz (talk) 22:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia, as you did to John Zachman. Wikipedia is not a collection of links, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam guideline for further explanations. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. Thank you. --Ronz (talk) 16:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Your test edit

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, talk pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. [2] --Ronz (talk) 17:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Please wait for help

I realize the situation may be frustrating for you, but please wait for another editor to step in. --Ronz (talk) 00:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Zachmanframework.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Zachmanframework.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 19:30, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the link to zifa.com from the image page as well as spam. If you would like to add a link to the actual page the image is on, I think that would be acceptable. --Ronz (talk) 16:07, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Ronz: I added the link to the version of the Zachman Framework poster that is provided freely by ZIFA in an attempt to comply with the fair use policy. If it doesn't add any further jusification, then it certainly doesn't need to be there. What else can I do to remove the tag from the image site?

Phogg2 (talk) 17:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't know any more than you about image tags. I'd check with the editor that tagged it. --Ronz (talk) 17:39, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Phogg2, if you click on the image it leads to a message that it's going to be deleted on 24 February unless a fair use rationale is provided. Your photographing John Zachman's poster doesn't produce a public-domain result; Zachman still owns the image. Either you need an acceptable Fair Use Rationale (one that justifies our use of an image that is copyrighted by someone else), or you need Zachman's permission to release the image under WP:GFDL. Do you have any way of contacting him? EdJohnston (talk) 03:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Ed: I have notified John of the requirement for him to provide permission for Wikipedia to retain the picture in the article, including the statement about the license, etc. I have also learned that he is in India until March 4, so I don't know if he will be able to respond by February 24. Could we get an extension on the deadline? --Phogg2 (talk) 14:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Phogg2. I assume you still have the photograph? I don't know how one requests a delay in the image deletion, but in any case, the banner across the bottom saying (c) John Zachman should be removed from the photo if he is willing to release it for GFDL. So you'd have to remake the image anyway. We can discuss this again after you've got the copyright situation sorted out, and re-do the upload at that time. EdJohnston (talk) 15:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Ed: Once we get the permission sorted out, I will crop the picture to remove the (c) caption. In the meantime, I have been unable to find who I could ask for a delay in the deadline. I might have to replace the picture with a placeholder or perhaps a link to the source of the picture after it is deleted? --Phogg2 (talk) 18:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Ed: I have just heard back from John Zachman. Due to the recent edit disputes he is reluctant to grant outright approval to use the picture in Wikipedia at this time, unfortunately. He apreciates the improvements that have been made to the article, however. I think I will make a basic picture of the framework, less the cell details, citing the Zachman International website as the source with an indication that cell details may be viewed there. --Phogg2 (talk) 19:39, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello Phogg2. Do you have some way of getting in touch with John Zachman? If you have his email and are willing to share it, click on Special:Emailuser/EdJohnston, so you can send it to me privately. Over at the WP:COIN noticeboard we are now describing the Lockezachman edits as vandalism. It would be embarrassing to have to block Zachman representatives from editing, so I would like to find a peaceful solution if possible. EdJohnston (talk) 03:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

John Zachman

Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to John Zachman, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you.

The idea that the the image is incorrectly labelled and outdated version of the Zachman Framework seems just your person view. These arguments doesn't make sense, because the same image and label is in the Zachman framework article. If you want both removed, you should restart the discussion we have been having.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 15:05, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to blank out or delete portions of page content, templates or other materials from Wikipedia, as you did to John Zachman, you will be blocked from editing.

Dear Phogg2. If you have an opinion, that some content should be removed, and other editors like me have explained over and over again, why you haven't given any good reason to remove the content, you can't continu removing the content on your own.

I advice you to contact other an administrator or any other author to help you with this, because your line of removing content is not bringing you any result.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 23:27, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Compronis

Maybe we could replace the illustration. I made a proposal on the Talk:John Zachman page -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 01:35, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Your puzzling edit summary at John Zachman

Hello Phogg2. I think you and I have discussed some of the Zachman diagrams in the past. I just saw this edit of yours and think it is hard to justify: Image deleted. Not merely my personal opinion. Zachman International disagrees with its use as well. I think we should respect their wishes. This is a confusing mixture of possible rationales, none of which fit with our policy very well. Can you find a way of explaining this reason for deleting the image that uses the standard terms of Wikipedia policy?

Neither your personal preference nor the wishes of Zachman International are binding on us, and their assertion here could be viewed as a form of Conflict of Interest. My question is if JZ believes he owns the copyright to File:Simplification Zachman Enterprise Framework.jpg. Do you know the answer? Superficially it seems to be a work of the Veterans Administration, and as a US Government work should be in the public domain. EdJohnston (talk) 04:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I just realized I more or less asked the same question about the ownership on the Talk:John Zachman January 26, 2009, see here, with no response so far. But I am still interested. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 20:35, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Ed and Marcel: At this moment, the image that is being used to illustrate the Zachman Framework is one that was created for the Department of Veteran's Affairs tutorial on the the old version of the Zachman Framework (the one before version 2 was produced in 2005). It is labeled "Simplified Zachman Framework with its Rows Explained." Row 5 in this image is labelled "As Built." No version of the framework produced by John Zachman ever included the term "As Built."

To quote from Rule #6 in the Zachman Framework article: "The composite or integration of all cell models in one row constitutes a complete model from the perspective of that row : For the same reason as for not adding rows and columns, changing the names may change the fundamental logical structure of the Framework."

As John frequently say: DON'T CHANGE THE NAMES OF THE ROWS AND COLUMNS!

I know John himself has changed some names of cells and rows over the years, for good and valid reasons. I would suggest as he is the author that is his preogative. That doesn't mean we should feel free to do likewise and still call it the Zachman Framework. Nor should we publish third party versions in the Zachman Framework and John Zachman articles and call them the "Zachman Framework."

Marcel, why don't at least use the one you modified for the Zachman Framework for the John Zachman article?

Phogg2 (talk) 19:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I just altered the image in the John Zachman article as I proposed, see talk:John Zachman. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Please tell us about yourself

Hello Phogg2. Your independence and neutrality has been discussed openly in the articles dealing with Zachman and the Zachman framework. In May, I asked if you would please provide details about yourself in the User page. You said that you would "look into it." I'd like to encourage you to navigate to the top of THIS page, click the tab marked "User Page" and edit the content to provide basic details about yourself: your name, your affiliation, your profession, and a little about your experience.

If you want us to take your edits and contributions with any degree of credibility, especially since you so frequently disagree with other editors, it would be extremely helpful to provide your fellow editors with a little information. Who knows... we may actually defer to your opinion on occasion, especially if we feel that your expertise and neutrality are sufficient to warrant our trust in your words.

With respect, Nickmalik (talk) 00:00, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Nickmalik. I have finally gotten around to including some information about myself on my User page. I have been extremely busy these past few months and have not had any time to spend on my favourite Wiki article - The Zachman Framework. I'll get back into it shortly. Phogg2 (talk) 15:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)