User talk:RetractionBot

Hi Sam

Hi User:Samwalton9. Is this really yours? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:10, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I also have this same question. Pinging Samwalton9. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 12:19, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

@Anna Frodesiak and Oshwah: It is indeed, thanks for checking! Sam Walton (talk) 12:34, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Samwalton9 - Cool deal; thanks for confirming! :-) ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 12:35, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for confirming. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 16:57, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Update to {{Retracted}}

Instead of using {{retracted|{{PMID|123456}}}}, the new code is {{retracted|pmid=123456}}. It also supports |bibcode=, |doi=, |pmid=, and |pmc=. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:00, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

@Headbomb: Thanks for the heads up! Bot progress is still waiting on some conversations regarding the data source, but I hope to continue with development soon :) Sam Walton (talk) 18:12, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

I figured it'd just be more reliable to have dedicated parameters, and support multiple ones, than have a general WYSIWIG field where people could put a lot of crap in it. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:16, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

@Samwalton9: While the Retraction Watch thing is going on, you could also consider using PUBMED directly. It'll be medicine-centric, but it'll be a good start. For example PMID 23432189 links to a retraction notice at PMID 29897867 (and mentions an erratum in "N Engl J Med. 2014 Feb 27;370(9):886"). Likewise PMID 29307074 links to an erratum at PMID 30798464.Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 09:06, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

@Headbomb: Yes, that was my original plan - to create a fresh database by querying the Pubmed and Crossref APIs for papers flagged as retracted and keeping it updated. From my understanding, RetractionWatch take this data and do further cleanup to ensure that everything flagged as a retraction indeed is a retraction, and they therefore have a more reliable data source. That said, if I don't hear from them soon and find some time to work on this I'll go ahead with the original plan for now. Sam Walton (talk) 09:27, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

{{Errata}}

You might want to add support for this to the bot too. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 01:05, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

How to avoid an edit warring bot

Hi! Is this enough to hinder the bot form tagging the same citation again, or is there some way to stop the bot from editing one specific citation again? (t) Josve05a (c) 22:39, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-relatedly, it might be good to have {{Outdated publication}} to flag old Cochrane reviews and other Living reviews. And possibly old preprints too, like arXiv:1801.02658v1. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:48, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Great point on potential edit warring. I've disabled tomorrow's bot run and will ensure it won't edit war before restarting it. Hadn't considered this. I'm not sure about Outdated publication though - while it's a good idea I'm not sure how feasible it will be to have the bot be able to distinguish between that and a retraction given that the Crossref data (and their own definition) simply flags them as retractions. I'm a little confused by the undo, however. @BallenaBlanca: As far as I can tell the tag was correct - Cochrane issued a retraction of this review on the basis that it was outdated, and the retraction notice is located here, so the template links to the retraction notice (the latter). Could you explain what you mean by this not being the retracted article? Sam Walton (talk) 23:15, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi! I understand that this can be confusing. I will try to explain it.

We have a 2008 Cochrane review. This is what the bot labeled by mistake. It is valid:

PMID 18425890

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2008 Apr 16;(2):CD003498. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD003498.pub3.

Gluten- and casein-free diets for autistic spectrum disorder.

Millward C, Ferriter M, Calver S, Connell-Jones G.

In April 2019, the Cochrane published a new revision of the same subject, with the same title and the same authors:

PMID 30938835

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2019 Apr 2;4:CD003498. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD003498.pub4. [Epub ahead of print]

WITHDRAWN: Gluten- and casein-free diets for autistic spectrum disorder.

Millward C1, Ferriter M, Calver SJ, Connell-Jones GG.

But what happened? In reality, no new RCT was made since 2008. Therefore, this 2019 review did not bring anything new. That was the reason for its withdrawal.

I explained it in all the edit summaries [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] "This is not the retracted article, but the 2019 one PMID 30938835. Reason "This review was withdrawn from the Cochrane Library in Issue 4, 2019, as it has not been updated since its last revision in 2008". https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003498.pub4/full", but it seems that I did not do it well ... --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 00:25, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

@BallenaBlanca: To clarify, the new revision (the second 'publication' linked there) is the retraction notice, right? As such, it's what the bot linked to. If we want to continue linking to a retracted article (in this case because it was only retracted due to being outdated), shouldn't the way forward be to use the |intentional=yes field of the retracted template, rather than reverting that template addition entirely? Sam Walton (talk) 09:00, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

"To clarify, the new revision (the second 'publication' linked there) is the retraction notice, right?" No, it is not the retraction notice of the 2008 review.

There are two different reviews: one of 2008, which has not been withdrawn, and another one of 2019, which has been withdrawn.

Explained in other words. The Cochrane made a new revision on the same subject. The conclusions are identical to those of 2008 because, during these eleven years, there have been no new studies that meet the criteria to be included in the systematic review. Therefore, a new review does not make sense. It is duplicating the same article. That's why they withdrawn the new 2019 paper.

Look at the two papers, each one identified with its own PMID and doi, and published on different dates: PMID 18425890 (2008 Apr 16) and PMID 30938835 (2019 Apr 2). They are identical. It is absurd to publish two identical papers. See the data of the withdrawn article, it is the one published in April 2019 [9]

Sorry if I'm not explaining myself correctly. The language barrier makes it more difficult for me .... --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 21:26, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

@BallenaBlanca: Ah! I understand now, thank you for explaining in detail, I appreciate it. It's strange that these are logged in Crossref as retractions, given that the retraction should be issued for the "updated-but-not-actually" review rather than the outdated review, but I guess that's the data we have to deal with. Do you think it would make sense to simply blacklist Cochrane Systematic Reviews from the bot's operation? It seems like a rough approach, we'd miss a genuine retraction of one of those reviews, but I'm not sure there's a better way given how these are recorded in Crossref. Sam Walton (talk) 22:06, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

You are welcome! Thank you very much for your effort and your kindness.

I do not think that's necessary, but it's just my opinion. I have not reviewed all the bot notices, just a few of them, but the ones I have seen are correct (with this exception).

Probably the best thing is that you ask this in the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine to check if there are frequent errors. --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 22:49, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

@Samwalton9: in the meantime, possibly untag the Cochrane retractions? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 00:30, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Samwalton9: It's sad to see that this caused you to stop the bot compleatly...any plans on the future? Jonatan Svensson Glad (talk) 02:23, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Wikidata

@Samwalton9: If you ever get this bot up and running again, perhaps it can be adjusted to also do edits such a this. Jonatan Svensson Glad (talk) 16:56, 31 March 2020 (UTC)