User talk:Rikster2/Archive 3

MLB Stadiums

Thank you. I just made a small edit on your page changing Riverfront Coliseum to Riverfront Stadium as Riverfront Stadium is an MLB Ballpark, not Riverfront Coliseum. Good luck! Also, you may have visited Great American Ballpark as that was opened in 2003. Just a little help! Good luck sir!

Kilpatrick

Oh, okay thank you. And I don't really know how to reference. If you go to Sean Kilpatrick I added the professional part. But I just put the reference link right there. Could you help with that? Thank you. I also added the ESPN Profile. I'm kinda new to all this.

2014 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans

If you could, please look up 2014 ap all american basketball on Google. The article by espn.go.com titled Doug McDermott a unanimous choice for AP All-American team. It will show that Sean Kilpatrick is 1st team AP All-American and Nick Johnson is second team AP All-American. Thank you.

see your Talk page for my response. Rikster2 (talk) 16:56, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Will do! Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 16:14, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Chris Roupas

I honestly have no idea at all. I've never heard of the guy before.Bluesangrel (talk) 06:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Rikster2, Feel free to contact me, Bob Miller, now retired sports historian, at BobMiller@GoPSUsports.com if you would like me to send you any verification on Chris Roupas playing in the 1982-83 Greek Professional basketball season. In addition to several interviews with other players who played against and with Roupas that we used for our research and museum, I also have two Super Basket magazines from Athens in 1982 which one has a small paragraph chatting with Roupas and another talks about their team. We also have several greek newspaper box scores which mention Roupas. I also interviewed Roupas in person for another project here at Penn State which discusses his play in Greece along with talking with his former USA-AHEPA Coach Monthe Kofos who saw him play in Greece.

I want to thank you for all you have done on Wiki-pedia for all the readers. I am truly impressed with what I read. Keep up the good work and please contact me if you would like anything. All the best and Happy New Year.PSUSTATS (talk) 01:54, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

He lettered as the article states in the Commonwealth Campus League as the article states. You make a good point and we will make it more clear as he played for Coach Ron Trimmer like the article says, but we will add at the Penn State York Campus.. He was injured at University Park at the start of his last two seasons, but he did earn a letter there as well as a manager. Thank you for the feedback.PSUSTATS (talk) 15:25, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

WP:NBA Summer League

Do you know where I could find the discussion about NBA Summer League MVP's in infoboxes? User T23tran has been adding all the past mvps and I'd like to point this discussion out to him. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 11:48, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that. DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:16, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

2,000-point scorers

So who's getting close? I know Travis Bader will hit it this season (and probably break Redick's 3-point mark along the way). Jrcla2 (talk) 13:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I need to put my list together. Bader is really close. Sean Kilpatrick will hit it, so will Chaz Williams. I'll try and pull together the tracker over the Christmas break so I can be on the lookout. The guy you need to track is Augustine Rubit, who is sitting at 988 rebounds and 1575 points. Highly likely he gets 2000/1000. Rikster2 (talk) 14:17, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Doug McDermott is also over 900 boards and should hit the 1000 rebound mark this season (already has over 2000 points). Rikster2 (talk) 14:24, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

The 2k/1k club is really impressive. That's a loaded career IMO. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:09, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Chris Goulding

Yeah, no doubt. The nonsense that goes on with those generic edits i.e. adding Australia, linking "Australian", the spacing after the persondata. DaHuzyBru (talk) 14:50, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Hey, could you have a look at Kiwi Gardner's article. It has put up for deletion and there is a discussion here. Just thought you may be able to help with content etc. DaHuzyBru (talk) 01:39, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Good. Thanks for letting me know. DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Sportspeople from Norwalk, Connecticut

I happen to agree with you. The piling up of Sportspeople categories from lower level cities has gotten out of hand and now its pouring over into counties and metropolitan areas.. FYI, I've created about two dozen Sportspeople from categories but if you checked, I stuck to major cities Anchorage, Birmingham Alabama, Hartford, Havana, Lima Peru, Columbus OH, or cities like- Dayton OH, Ann Arbor, New Haven, that had large amounts of people from and still would after I removed the Sportspeople. I usually aimed for the parent category having over 200 entries and the Sportspeople having 40 at least. Savannah and Montgomery Alabama I may have slipped up on my criteria. The San Francisco debate I think should be closed as a speedy delete, because we've been down this road twice before not too long ago. Something makes me think we'll be having another debate in not too long....William 16:26, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's tough to keep these types of categories to major cities - for example, where is the line between a major and a minor one? Is Lubbock, Texas? Boise, Idaho? Augusta, Georgia? But at the same time, I think it is human nature for inexperienced editors to see categories for larger cities and assume it's fine to create them for smaller locales. Rikster2 (talk) 21:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to chime in, but I always try to make sure that either the city has at least 100 thousand residents or there are a substantial number of sportspeople from the city.Hoops gza (talk) 05:03, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Citation needed ...

... for this. Interesting fact and should be in the article. Do we have a source? Daniel Case (talk) 22:51, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I originally got it from a Google news newspaper image, but a lot of that catalog is gone now. I'll look for another source, it's definitely true. Rikster2 (talk) 00:56, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Teams listed in biography infobox

What about Greg Oden? He has 2007–2012, but did not play from december 2009 to end of 2011–12 season? Should he not then be changed as well? I think it should be a tenure, not just when they actually played (unless they didn't play at all during their tenure with a club ie Andrew Bynum – which i agree with). It doesn't look good having only "2014" for Seth Curry for example or Wayns. For example, if someone signs with a club in January 2009 and leaves the club in April 2011 but only played one game for the club (in lets say) February 2009, they appeared for the club, therefore should have 2009–2011. It looks odd if (for this example), it only has 2009. DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:33, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Abney

It is quite easy to tell due to that same format of editing... DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:48, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Willie Simmons

I had a go at his career history but it is shaky, Eurobasket has most of it but there are some holes which I'm not sure about. I don't know anything about him, hopefully you might. DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:04, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Anything more for this article? You still thinking of creating it? DaHuzyBru (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

If I get to it. But that is looking less likely. Rikster2 (talk) 03:54, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Infobox needed

Reid Gettys needs an infobox.Hoops gza (talk) 22:43, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, lots of people do ... I've made a mental note, but feel free to add it if you like. Rikster2 (talk) 14:41, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Showcase

Would All-NBA D-League Showcase teams meet pro basketball highlight threshold? DaHuzyBru (talk) 11:41, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't think so, it's a little fringe and the D-League is minor league after all (seems like we should stick to All-NBDL teams and specialty awards there). Worth noting in the prose of the article, though. But if you want, you can take it to WP:NBA to get other opinions. Rikster2 (talk) 12:58, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

All good. Won't bother with WP:NBA, just wanted your opinion. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:35, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Hey, what's your view on this? DaHuzyBru (talk) 05:35, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

McDermott

It doesn't really make sense to have someone be in Basketball Players from State, if their only affiliation is that they were born there. Is he really "from" North Dakota? I don't think anyone says they're "from" somewhere if their only relationship to it is its their birthplace. I don't know Doug McDermott personally, but I would be willing to bet he would answer Iowa if asked where he's from. He might even say "born in North Dakota, but from Iowa." Either way he's not a basketball player from North Dakota. Jrcla2 (talk) 03:08, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

where was the consensus on that? Actually, his dad coached in ND, Iowa and Michigan in his youth. And there are plenty of editors running a round WP who delete all categories except the state of birth when it comes to "people from" cats. It's not worth edit warring but I don't really get where this is coming from. Rikster2 (talk) 03:59, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

sorry, I didn't mean that I was accusing you of edit warring, just that it isn't something I will fight over. Rikster2 (talk) 04:06, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not too concerned about the category being included or excluded. Of all things to worry about that's near the bottom of the list. Whenever the day comes when all of the CPOYs are finished, I wonder if we'll have a Wikipedia editor equivalent of empty nest syndrome? lol (but seriously) I'm sure our next area of focus would be national championship navbox players and Helms AAs, but it will be a pop-champagne-kind-of-day when these CPOYs are through. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:46, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

There are a lot of significant coach articles missing. I'd suggest targeting those, but frankly I hate writing coach articles. I think it's because they look bare without the record tables and I find doing those incredibly tedious. Guess I just need to get over it and stub them out and let somebody else add the table if they want. National champ templates would be a useful next move as far as players go. I think those could be knocked out pretty fast. Rikster2 (talk) 14:54, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I think with Helms AAs, I might target editors who have certain proclivities for editing. Redmen44 likes creating Wisconsin basketball articles, for example, so any early Wisconsin players would be in his wheelhouse. It'd help relieve some burden from me and you, who at this point are creating 90%+ of historical notable college players' bios. Another set of red links that'd be easy to knock out would be the remaining statistical leaders. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:41, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, we'll see. Recently I have started evaluating my involvement in Wikipedia. I may dial it back or stop altogether. There are many things that have always irritated me about WP and right now I am in a cycle where those are feeling bigger than the benefits. I don't know where I'll land on that though. Rikster2 (talk) 15:15, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

One way I reduced my irritation with WP is by going through my raw watchlist and removing hundreds of articles, categories, and templates from my purview. "Out of sight, out of mind" is the only way I can deal with some of the nonsense on here, especially the endless IP vandalism. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:30, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Apologies again if I inadvertently added to the irritation level. You'd definitely be missed, but you gotta look out for yourself too.—Bagumba (talk) 02:34, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Country of birthplace

Saw your edit to remove US for Lebron James. I suppose its consistent with NBA/NFL/MLB bios, but it does seem to be against the practice in other bios. Even the few US presidents' bios I looked at have US in their birthplace. Maybe it's a general US bias we have, because Steve Nash has Johannesburg, South Africa—not Johannesburg, Gauteng or Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa. It's probably unreasonable for non-US readers to know that Ohio is in the US, just like I wouldn't readily recognize some Australian provinces. Don't want to get in a big discussion about this; you won't find me adding nor removing countries. Figure it might save you some time too.—Bagumba (talk) 01:01, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Ron Charles (basketball)

Hello, just thought that you might like to know that I have a 1989 article from the Detroit News that says that Ron Charles was playing pro basketball in France at that time. This newspaper clipping could certainly be misinformation though. Thoughts?Hoops gza (talk) 05:06, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

You should go ahead and add it and the source to the article. It's probably accurate and the paper seems like a reliable source. Often international career is difficult to track for players prior to the last 10 years or so. Rikster2 (talk) 12:19, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

National POY

Saw your revert to Ralph Sampson. Agree that ACC POY should stay, but I thought you were on board with one entry for the alphabet soup of NPOY awards that was discussed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association/Archive_20#Consolidating_College_POY. No prob if you have different ideas now.—Bagumba (talk) 01:38, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

I am, but I'm not going to put myself out to revert the other stuff. I am not ok with the onus being on me to re key valid awards vs. the editor who made the changes with no consensus. Rikster2 (talk) 01:40, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not always in the mood to sift out the good stuff either. Just wanted to be clear on the NPOY. Thx.—Bagumba (talk) 01:53, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Stupid question

This might be one of the stupidest questions ever, but how do you know when a new basketball article like Fred Slaughter gets created? Or is the simple response that it's on your watchlist?—Bagumba (talk) 23:08, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Missing players on championship templates are redlinks on my user page, so Slaughter came up that way. I also check the general WP:Basketball and WP:College Basketball lists linked on the project pages regularly. I also check the new pages link occasionally, but that usually doesn't turn much up. Rikster2 (talk) 23:17, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

I assume you mean https://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/transcluded_changes.py?page=Template:WikiProject_College_Basketball ? I guess that only works if its assigned to a WikiProject already. Somehow I thought/hoped there might be some bot that looks for keywords in new articles.—Bagumba (talk) 23:29, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

that would be nice. But no. Rikster2 (talk) 23:34, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

1985–86 NCAA Division I men's basketball season

Rikster2. You edited [1] 1985–86 NCAA Division I men's basketball season over two years ago stating that you would replace with static standings. That hasn't happened. Would you like some help in doing so? --SportsMaster (talk) 17:27, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I also didn't know if you think there is a specific template for doing so that is best. Thanks.--SportsMaster (talk) 17:31, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

if you feel strongly go ahead and do it yourself. My issue was the stat table templates were causing the page to crash and my guess is they'd have the same effect now. I am under no obligation to do edits on demand. Rikster2 (talk) 19:56, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

It was not a demand. I apologize. It was not intended to be perceived as one. The reason I ask is that I was wondering if you would help create a template that wouldn't crash or know of one to use. That is all. Thank you for your time. --SportsMaster (talk) 20:22, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

CFD speedy

Hi Rikster

I just thought that I should point out that your !vote to support at WP:CFD/S on Category:Snow College Badgers football coaches was a waste of your time.

Speedy nominations are not a discussion; they are a process whereby certain types of nominations proceed without discussion, unless opposed. That one was opposed, so it wasn't going to proceed unless the opposer withdrew.

A full discussion has been opened at WP:CFD 2014 February 17 ... and when I checked it I see you had already got there. Oh well :) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:19, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

NBA Rising Star

Hey, I left a new topic on the NBA talk page that I would love your opinion on. Sorry I don't know how to give you the direct link. (T23tran (talk) 15:37, 27 February 2014 (UTC))

Bairstow

Yeah, for sure. I could use your help though, as I'm not great at college info – my college info I add to pro players I create comes solely from their college bios. I'll give it a go due to him having been a Boomer. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 06:54, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Done. What do you think? DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:19, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Year range MOS

Let's see if this edit sticks.—Bagumba (talk) 00:16, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Alex Francis

10 rebounds short! Do you think Bryant will get a bid to the CIT? If he has one more game he'd probably get it (you've gotta figure he'd be aware that he'd only need 10 more rebounds to hit 1,000). Or is Bryant's season over and Francis came agonizingly close to the 2000/1000 club? Jrcla2 (talk) 15:19, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

I think they're done. After reading their last game write up on the team site they referred to him closing his career. That's too bad. Rikster2 (talk) 20:43, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

He's got to be one of the closest ever to the 2000/1000 club without making it. We'll never know for sure, but damn. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:58, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Isn't Billy Baron's career over (re: [2])? Or does Canisius have a chance at the NIT or CIT? Jrcla2 (talk) 20:10, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

they might go CBI or cit. I would leave it til the tourneys are announced. Rikster2 (talk) 20:13, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:15, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Updating some pages for me?

Rikster, I'm headed to Richmond VA this weekend and from around 2:00 EST today through Sunday afternoon I won't be able to edit. Do you think you could keep an eye on this, this, this, and this for me? With conference tournament games starting today for Creighton and Ohio State, McDermott and Craft will be climbing up all of these leader boards. IPs go crazy when they can be "the first" to update, and never use the preview button, so I'm assuming that by the time I get back to these on Sunday evening each of those articles' edit histories will be muddled with IP crap (btw, the Games Played article doesn't have Craft on it yet because he's going to appear in his 145th career game tonight...also, his fellow OSU seniors might make that threshold too although I haven't double-checked). Anywho, I trust you to correctly update all stats, not just things like points scored, on these articles. If you can't or don't want to no big deal, thought I'd ask though. Sorry for rambling. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:12, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Sure. I can't promise I'll have much editing time til Saturday, but I'll keep an eye out. Rikster2 (talk) 21:47, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Re: College basketball templates

I am sorry for creating unnecessary navboxes like for CBE Classic MVP and Conference USA First Team, I don't mind if you remove them. But please do not remove the NCAA colors, I've tried hard to introduce them to "Infobox basketball biography" Temple of the Mousy (talk) 22:41, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

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Jason Brickman's birthplace

Jason Brickman was born in San Antonio, TX according to a well-respected basketball site called RealGM.com. The exact link can be found here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Temple of the Mousy (talk • contribs) 00:04, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

RealGM.com is notoriously bad about using "hometown" as birthplace. Need a second source to confirm. Rikster2 (talk) 00:25, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

This and this says San Antonio, TX but a bit like RealGM, they could be using hometown, but it's the best we have. Until something else says otherwise, San Antonio, Texas should be added. DaHuzyBru (talk) 09:18, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

ok, I buy the CBSSports site. The other one doesn't have any credibility to me though - who runs it, what is their source, etc. but fine for the S.A. Birthplace per the CBS source. Rikster2 (talk) 12:50, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Regarding covers.com, I just found it when I searched google for his birthplace – it probably has no credibility whatsoever. And also, would you happen to know why NBL players no longer have team colours showing on the infobox. Could it be to do with User:Eccy89 changing stuff to do with infobox basketball club and integrating it into NBL team articles i.e. removing infobox NBL club. DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:21, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

CPOYs in multiple conferences

Finally, a source that confirms Granger Hall, Sedric Webber, and Doug McDermott as the only three Division I players to be named CPOYs in multiple conference: [3]. It doesn't mention Hall or Webber by name, but this official NCAA press release at least acknowledges McDermott is the third ever. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:53, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

That's cool. I traded emails with Creighton's SID for men's hoops about this over the weekend - doubt that was what did it, but the guy was very nice about it. Rikster2 (talk) 16:44, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Justin Watts

He should? I waited for his professional debut in Mexico, where despite being the second league in Mexico, is still a professional league – the QBL is semi-professional. Being a pro basketball player surely meets GNG yeah? Sure his college career was average, but now he's a pro, there should be no problem... DaHuzyBru (talk) 15:15, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

True, I saw him play in Toowoomba when the Rockets versed the Mountaineers! I personally think the CIBACOPA receives a decent level of coverage, their games even receive live scoring and stats. I think I've done a fair job with the article, and looking at WP:GNG, it meets what's listed their. Tbh, it really shouldn't be a concern, there are much less notable figures on Wikipedia. DaHuzyBru (talk) 16:00, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for all your help on the Josh Gasser page. Some people are just trying to bully me on here but I really appreciate you helping me strengthen the pages I have been working on. This round is on me! Redmen44 (talk) 06:22, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Nationalities

I kind of have argument with one user why we shouldn't put links to player nationalities in general info. French instead of French, Russian instead of Russian and so.. I want your opinion, for the reason you were correcting my edits over such things, and I took it by default since then. Thanks. AirWolf (talk) 20:39, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

WP:OVERLINK says "the names of major geographic features and locations; languages; religions; common occupations; and pre- and post-nominals" should generally not be linked. A nationality is the same as a country or language. People know what France is, or Croatia, or Kenya. They don't need a link to define it. Rikster2 (talk) 23:26, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! AirWolf (talk) 19:17, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Recently completed

The way I see it, a college basketball player is considered a part of the team until he or she graduates or turns pro. Just because they played their last game doesn't mean they're not still on the team. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 20:51, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

that's not majority view. Look around at other seniors. I don't actually care that much. Rikster2 (talk) 20:53, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't really care that much either, just saying. Also, do you have a source for Roscoe Smith declaring for the draft? ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 20:57, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10730114/roscoe-smith-unlv-rebels-enter-nba-draft Rikster2 (talk) 20:58, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Stanley Johnson (basketball)

I don't know if you are watching Talk:Stanley Johnson (basketball), but come help make a decision. I may find a better picture, but for now those are our choices.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:22, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I like the second picture. Hey, did you get any good shots of Justin Jackson? That is an article I am thinking of creating. Rikster2 (talk) 04:09, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

I was looking for your comment on that talk page or in the article. Re Jackson, I should have everybody who played. I am ahead of last year's pace when I did not trim down the photos until Novemeber. Last year I took about 2500 shots. This year I only took about 1400 so it should be easier. Jackson picked up two awards and I have pictures of both of those. I am still going through my action shots. Hopefully, I can make 2014 McDonald's All-American Boys Game look better than last year's article in terms of pictures since I have a much better lens now. If you look, you can see my shutter speed last year was 1/250th of a second and this year it is 1/640th of a second. Thus my pictures should be more than twice as sharp and I was able to shoot with more than double the zoom. I will try to put my best action photo of each player in the 2014 MCDAAG article. So far I have only done the Chicago guys (Cliff Alexander, Jahlil Okafor and Tyler Ulis) and Johnson.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:58, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Three pictures of Justin Jackson are now in the 2014 McDonald's All-American Boys Game article and there are a couple more on commons. I am still going through my pictures, but I might not find anything better for him.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:28, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

He is not really the main subject of some more that I just posted. Between File:20140402 MCDAAG Tyler Ulis attacks Justin Jackson (2).JPG and File:20140402 MCDAAG Tyler Ulis attacks Justin Jackson (3).JPG is a block, but since I can only shoot 5 frames per second, I missed it. If I had one of those 10 or 12 frames per second cameras, I would have caught it, but I can't afford those.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:50, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Even though Jackson scored a lot, he is quite modest. He laid it up on open breakaways and clear path baskets. Anyone his size going to Carolina must be able to jam. I don't know what his deal is. Those folks on tobacco road are going to have to teach him that there is value to firing up the fans with dunks. P.S. his modesty is probably part of why he won the sportsmanship award.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:37, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

I have finished uploading my images at Commons:Category:2014_McDonald's_All-American_Boys_Game (108 of them). I have taken the time to crop about half of them and save them over the original.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:34, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Nikola Peković

Need help on this article as some users are constantly making changes on his nationality. They say he is a Serb based on his "Serbian tatooes", and him "raising three fingers" which in Serbia means gesture that he respect and like Serbian people, kind of patriotism salute widely spread.AirWolf (talk) 23:08, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Mark Tyndale

All right, I created the article on Mark Tyndale. It's pretty short, but I might work on it over the next week. Also, good job filling in the red links in the conference POY templates. I might tackle R.J. Hunter in the next week if no one gets to it. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 20:09, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you

		The Cleanup Barnstar
		Thank you Rikster2 for all your duties in cleaning up articles. It is appreciated.

Robert4565 (talk) 21:14, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Jimmy McNatt

Just a heads up, someone out there really tries to WP:OWN Jimmy McNatt's article. User:Jkirks (and I'm assuming 24.128.123.161, who is probably Jkirks logged out) gets email notifications anytime that article is edited and he almost always tries to undo or alter those edits. Keep a close eye out on that article. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:23, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

if the guy is willing to work collaboratively I'm sure we can find a way. Otherwise, he's on the way to "three reverting" Rikster2 (talk) 22:28, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Notable player?

Is Jason Lathrem notable? He was added to the 1996 Kentucky championship navbox. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:57, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

not as a basketball player or coach Rikster2 (talk) 18:33, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

FYI

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 April 30#Template:Sportspeople from Portland, Oregon. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:16, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Award 4 U

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awarded to Rikster2 for being a member of the 50,000 Edit Club
Vjmlhds (talk) 17:06, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Brad Tinsley

Hey. Would you be able to help me with this guy removing information on Brad Tinsley. He and his two IPs he's used have been removing valid information about a signing, and now he claims he's "personally talked" to him about it (which I doubt). I don't want to get into an edit war so would you be able to have a look and possibly back me up? Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 10:32, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Justin Jackson link

I've seen that on your "to-do" college basketball players list you've added Justin Jackson. There are actually multiple notable basketball players with the name (Cincinnati senior and North Carolina future freshman). Also, all over Wikipedia there are links that say "Justin Jackson (basketball)" rather than "Justin Jackson (basketball, born 1995." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Temple of the Mousy (talk • contribs) 15:37, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Not sure the Cincy player is truly notable. But whatever, if I get to creating the article I'll do it with the appropriate naming convention. Rikster2 (talk) 15:40, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Quin Snyder

Hello. I see you reverted the edit and accepted the last one. No worries about that, since I was actually trying to locate any reference, but was unable to do so which can happen mate.

However, the edit comments can be good mate, and can be stated to have good faith over someone.

You must know, I am new to my job role of "Reviewer", so it might be that, due to the same thing and in order to be extra cautious, I might have missed out on the relevant point. I try to go slow and read through completely in order to gain proper understanding of the edit.

I try to be extra cautious, and thus.

I now see the mention: Snyder most recently completed his first season as an assistant coach for the Atlanta Hawks in 2013-14 under Mike Budenholzer, helping the Hawks to a 2014 playoff appearance.

Danke Schôn. Vishal Bakhai - Works 13:18, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mate.

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Vishal Bakhai - Works 17:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Quin Snyder

I wanted to let you know that I reverted your edit, because of WP:SYNTH. Thanks, Lixxx235^{Got a complaint?} 14:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

you really shouldn't have. The ref confirming the new job speaks of the old one in the past tense. Rikster2 (talk) 14:18, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Question on notability

Hi Rikster2,

Thank you for reviewing my articles and editing them; it is appreciated. I think that players who officially declared for the NBA Draft are notable because on Wikipedia basketball players are presumed notable if they have been selected in the first two rounds of the NBA Draft. The modern NBA Draft only consists of two rounds. Do you believe that these players (ones that officially declared for the NBA Draft, but haven't been selected yet) would be notable? Robert4565 (talk) 04:08, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

The short answer is no, not on those grounds. You can't forecast draft status based on mock draft sites and assume a person meets WP:NBASKETBALL. That said, pretty much all of the guys being discussed as draft picks meet Wikipedia's General notability guideline (GNG) due to press coverage during their college (and in some cases high school) careers. When I create articles for these players, I try to ensure I use secondary sources (such as major newspaper articles or articles on nationally recognized sports outlets) to establish GNG. Rikster2 (talk) 14:37, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

As I look, it appears you are creating articles for everyone who has declared. I would not say all those people are notable. In my opinion, William Alston is not notable as he is an obscure JC guy who just happened to submit paperwork for the NBA but most likely will not be drafted. Khem Birch on the other hand, is a star college player who has received significant news coverage throughout his career and is a serious candidate to be drafted. Just my 2 cents. Rikster2 (talk) 14:41, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Rikster2,

It was just those two that you mentioned Robert4565 (talk) 16:35, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Rikster2,

You're right about William Alston (basketball).I will put a Wikipedia:Proposed deletion on it, save the text onto my sandbox, and see if he gets drafted. If he does get drafted in the first two round I will recreate the article. Robert4565 (talk) 16:52, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Dario Šarić

Wait for the official announcement from the Anadlu Efes S.K. and him (his agent) that the deal is done. All we saw in the media was just a report. Edits you've done can be harmful, especially in the days prior the NBA Draft 2014, in which he was projected as high first round pick. Thanks! --AirWolf (talk) 11:05, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

OK, but the NBA knows he's signed. The reference was from NBA.com. Rikster2 (talk) 11:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

That is not true. You cited as a source the following: Report: Croatian forward Dario Saric to sign with Turkish club Anadolu Efes and either in that way it says it is a REPORT. Again, waith for the official announcement. Cheers! --AirWolf (talk) 11:41, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

It's fine to revert based on this, but I am not going to feel bad about it. If he, his agent and the Turkish team are hiding his signing so it won't hurt his draft position then he deserves to be found out. If this deal is announced Friday it's a sham. Rikster2 (talk) 11:46, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Even in that case, you're not (we are not) someone who can change the information on our hand (how you say it "find out") before official signing.--AirWolf (talk) 11:50, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I get it. Just so you know, NBA.com is treating this as a done deal - http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/06/23/sarics-signing-in-turkey-may-alter-plans-at-top-of-draft/?ls=iref:nba:specials - Again, I'm not going to feel bad about the edits as the deal is being reported everywhere at this point. But I won't change it again. Rikster2 (talk) 11:55, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

My point was not te make you feel bad about your edit. Just to make you wait for the official news, and not reports. Now that it is official, are you "happy", satisfied? Citing for the end:"If this deal is announced Friday it's a sham." - Suggestion - Leave that paranoid behavior outside wiki. Bye! --AirWolf (talk) 17:35, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't care either way - it is merely a transaction. You said my edits could be "harmful" - with the suggestion that they might have some negative impact on the guy's draft position. That's BS. Rikster2 (talk) 18:00, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

That's not true. I won't discuss anymore. I just miss all these great contributors like Zagalejo nowdays who cared about official statements and not about sh*t (reports etc.) some are putting there. Done. --AirWolf (talk) 18:21, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

It's exactly true - read your first note. And just so you know, the NBA.com article I linked was the first place I read it and didn't really sound like a "sources say" deal. I'm not sure why I ended up using a different reference, but I had plenty to choose from. Look, it's fine for you to revert my edits, just don't come over here and "tsk tsk" me over it on my Talk page. I don't need you to tell me my edits are "harmful" or that I should "leave that paranoid behavior outside wiki." You do good work on here and I appreciate it, but I have limits to what I'll put up with. Rikster2 (talk) 19:01, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Two questions

Hello, I have noticed that the Spanish article on Guy Williams (basketball) includes additional teams on which he played. Shall I add these in on the English article?

Also, you may recall me asking you about those CBA guides before. I am curious to know, what do they contain in the way of statistics? For instance, do they contain box scores of each CBA playoff game from the previous season, or just the championship round, etc.? - Hoops gza (talk) 21:42, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Do you happen to have the original ABA guides in your possession as well? If so, the same questions apply. - Hoops gza (talk) 21:45, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Sure, go ahead and add the teams from the other wiki. As for the CBA guides, yes, they typically have playoff box scores - at least for the finals. I'm traveling so can't look at one to check. Generally, the info for the previous season is very strong and there is a player register with everyone who played the year before with their entire CBA/NBA stats. I do have a couple ABA guides. They are basically like pre 1980 NBA Guides (prior to the publication of NBA registers) if you've ever seen those. Rikster2 (talk) 00:17, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I have do have some of those. I appreciate your help with this. - Hoops gza (talk) 02:13, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

When you have the chance, I would appreciate if you could check on the CBA guides, just to verify. These seem rather difficult to find now... how did you obtain them? - Hoops gza (talk) 02:20, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

DeAndre Daniels

Sorry, my mistake with deleting the reference. At the moment I'm a highly pumped UConn and am probably not paying great attention to detail — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:6:C00:F4:BDD1:F496:63F:A4C7 (talk) 04:39, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Bryce Cotton

Much like Donald Sloan last year [4] and Shayne Whittington this year [5], Cotton was signed by the Spurs to more then just a summer league contract before July 10. DaHuzyBru (talk) 11:13, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 13:07, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Aggravation

Hey, Rikster. You may want to keep an eye on this guy: here. I've already reverted or partially reverted most of his edits for the last eight days because of his odd capitalization practices involving "free agent" and the player positions in the infoboxes. He's also deleting any double positions, too. I left a message for him on his talk page earlier, but, of course, he has not responded in any way. I also left a message for Bagumba, asking him to read the guy the riot act, but if you have a favorite administrator, you may want to ping him, too. This game is getting old. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I've noticed. It's fine. I've just started the official disruptive editing warnings. Once he gets enough of those he'll be banned by an admin - it shows up on a worklist after a few. He knows what he's doing as he's had several folks post on his Talk aboout it, so he's clearly engaging in disruptive editing. Rikster2 (talk) 00:59, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks. I just had occasion to fix about 150 NBA bios he previously nibbled on. On the bright side, Rikster, it looks like the formatting consistency for NBA article infoboxes and leads has improved a lot in the last year -- notwithstanding this guys efforts. Most other editors appear to be working with you, not against you. Cheers! Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:09, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Pierre Jackson

He has confirmed on his own Instagram page that he is joining the 76ers. ESPN lists him on their roster. He was AT the rookie introduction press conference, along with K.J. McDaniels, Jerami Grant, and Jordan McRae who are also joining the 76ers. He is on the team. miamiheat631 (talk) 9:26, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

I am gonna say it here too - he has NOT signed a contract and the possibility of this happening is now very much in flux. The 76ers may opt to do it, but they may choose not to sign a player who is possibly down for the season. We need to wait and see per WP:CRYSTAL. Rikster2 (talk) 14:37, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Really? He is not the official source? Troy Daniels announced he was re-signing with the Rockets on his Instagram page. Greg Smith announced he was being traded to the Mavericks via Instagram. He is an official source. He. Is. On. The. Team. ESPN lists him on their roster, and that is an official source! I am changing it back. miamiheat631 (talk) 9:26, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Re: Pierre Jackson

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All-NBA, All-American and all-conference honors

Hey. I need some help. The examples of infobox honors for Template:Infobox basketball biography provide the following examples:

• 2× All-NBA First Team (2001–2002)
• 2× All-NBA Second Team (2003–2004)
• 2× All-NBA Third Team (2005–2006)

This is problematic because it directly contradicts the formatting instructions for Template:Infobox NFL player, and because it contradicts the uniform honors formatting that a lot of us have been trying to impose for college sports generally. Moreover, it's contrary to the examples of the uncapitalized "First team," "Second team" and "Third team" shown in the table headers and elsewhere in All-NBA Team article. The actual honor is "All-NBA," a proper noun, but the phrases "first team," "second team," etc., are not part of the proper noun, as in "All-NBA Second Team." The pattern followed elsewhere would be:

• 2× First-team All-NBA (2001–2002)
• 2× Second-team All-NBA (2003–2004)
• 2× Third-team All-NBA (2005–2006)

When it preceded the proper noun, "first-team" should be hyphenated as a compound adjective. When it follows the All-NBA honor, then it is the modified noun and All-NBA is the compound adjective.

We have a bunch of IPs and drive-by editors who are randomly changing NFL, CFB and other college sports articles to the formatting shown on the basketball biography page, necessitating a lot of back-and-forth. Would it be possible to conform the NBA infobox honors to the formatting used pretty much everywhere else? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:28, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

I'd second your recommendation, but it really needs to be a discussion at WP:NBA. I continually revert edits which change "Consensus first team All-American" to "Consensus All-American First Team." Not only because of the capitalization issue, but because absolutely no one ever says it that way. You would never say "Doug McDermott was a consensus All-American first team player," you'd say "Doug McDermott was a consensus first team All-American." People change it to match the NBA formatting I presume. Rikster2 (talk) 21:13, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

As I am sure you're aware, there are differences in the "consensus" usage between college football and college basketball. For the NCAA consensus All-Americans in football, there is no second team or first team; "consensus" implies first team. For the NCAA consensus All-Americans in basketball, the NCAA actually designates a consensus first team and a consensus second team based on the NCAA's own points system. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:45, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't edit football articles so I'm not that concerned with the difference. My point stands. Rikster2 (talk) 22:48, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Hey, Rik, I wasn't contradicting you. I was leaving a popcorn trail for those following the conversation. As for your point regarding common conversational usage, I agree 100 percent. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:01, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

FWIW, not only is All-NBA First Team et al used by the NBA, it has common usage in books as well. Google Books search shows 12,900 hits for "All-NBA First Team" vs 2,080 for "first-team All-NBA".—Bagumba (talk) 21:20, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

That's fine if that's what the WP:NBA consensus wants, but it is out of step with the All-American and NFL All-Pro honors formatting used by WP:NFL and the other college sports projects. We just create more work for ourselves because the average IP or drive-by sports editor does not understand the formatting distinctions and changes the formatting in any given infobox to whatever they prefer. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:45, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Are you watching my talk page? Save it for the discussion at the Wikiproject, please. Rikster2 (talk) 21:22, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

NBL championship navbox

Template:Minneapolis Lakers 1947–48 NBL champions was just created. I don't think I have a problem with it existing, I just am wondering a couple of things: (1) Where did he get his info for uniform numbers? (2) How is it determined who appears on it? It doesn't seem like everyone is listed. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:38, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

I didn't reconcile it, but he probably got the participants from those who had playoff stats here. Basketball-reference.com has really improved their NBL content the last couple of years. As for the numbers, I have no idea. You could always ping the editor or delete them. Rikster2 (talk) 16:14, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

I removed the numbers since I can't find a source and that user doesn't respond to other editors. I also removed any players from these navboxes who failed to appear in a game during their team's championship playoff run. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:02, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Unrelated to the navboxes discussion above, I just wanted to vent how f-ing absurd this discussion is. I'm almost at a loss for words. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:01, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Yep. If that goes through expect to be seeing user edits for years "fixing" where WP differs from official sources. But whatever. Rikster2 (talk) 19:04, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Could you explain your revert.

What's the reach? The guy pretty much created and definitely pioneered a whole sub-genre of music. If you're reacting to how bare his article is, that's a whole 'nother story. It's simply not your field, admit it. I wouldn't revert a similar edit of yours referring to a basketball player on an electronic music artist's article. Why? Because I don't know enough about basketball. Lighthead ^þ 05:33, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Since you seem to be ignoring my request for an explanation (I see that you're still online because you are making edits), I'll go ahead and revert your edit. The least you could have done was give me an explanation. Thank you. Lighthead ^þ 06:02, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't see the redirect at all. What is it under? To be honest with you, what really bothers me is not so much that you didn't respond. What bothers me are editors like you whose knee-jerk reaction is to revert other people's edits without fully investigating the matter. Wouldn't it have been better to ask me whether I felt that the person was notable enough to put the hatnote there? One of the things that bothers me about Wikipedia is how impersonal people are. Lighthead ^þ 20:35, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

As you may already be able to tell, I've modified the article (Oneohtrix Point Never) to eliminate any future confusion. And to help you realize that I wasn't trying to irritate you on purpose, I apologize for having irritated you. :) I simply don't appreciate it when people automatically revert people's edits without fully reading the article first. And you're not the only one who's done it. I've had it done to me countless times. And I actually don't usually do anything about it, but I guess your edit was the straw that broke the camel's back. Lighthead ^þ 03:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Joel Embiid's number

I'm all up for leaving Embiid's number as blank because it's not listed on the roster, but he does have number 11 in this. DaHuzyBru (talk) 18:06, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Template:Infobox basketball biography

Hey, Rik. Someone has recently edited and expanded the field labels on the infobox, including "Listed height," "Listed weight" and "Pro playing career". Apart from the fact that the word "listed" and "playing" are unnecessary surplusage, the now lengthened parameter labels are causing distortionary effects on line wrapping within the data fields and also widening the infobox itself in some instances. Can you take a look at this? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

"Listed height" and "listed weight" are necessary as there are edit wars over these fields all the time based on draft measurements or a newspaper report that a guy gained/lost a lot of weight. I am not in favor of dropping the word "listed" as this helps people understand that the height/weight on the player's current team site is what should be in these fields. I'm all for dropping "playing" from career. Rikster2 (talk) 15:37, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Do you think the word "listed" offers protection from IP editors who are inclined to change the heights and weights? I just revert'em and refer them to the height/weight listed in the subject's NBA.com player profile ("see link at bottom of infobox"). Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I think having it on there gives recourse when you change it back, yes. Not all the changes are by vandals. Sorry, not in favor of removing those words. Rikster2 (talk) 15:52, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm going to follow your lead on basketball issues 9 out 10 ten times. No objections if I delete "playing" as discussed above, right? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:03, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Rusty LaRue

Please try to find some source that he started collegiate basketball career in 1992 instead of 1993. Before I replaced infobox template, 1993–1996 period was "in power". Still, there is this information that he played various sports back in the college, however there is no information when he officially started playing basketball. Maybe he didn't come to college with basketball scholarship? Hope I helped.--AirWolf ^talk 11:07, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Dick Tarrant

Nope. Per wp:burden. People should cite their edits. Thank you for adding the citation. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 16:25, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

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Tico Brown

Hello, could you please add the career history of teams for which Tico Brown played to his infobox? Also, could you please get back to me about those CBA Guides from your Archive 3? - Hoops gza (talk) 22:55, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

I'll take a look. What was your question about these? Thought I'd answered you. Rikster2 (talk) 22:56, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Do they contain full box scores of each CBA playoff game from the previous season, or just the championship round? I was also curious how you acquired these as they are now very difficult to find. - Hoops gza (talk) 23:02, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

looks like just the championship series. I have gotten most on eBay (usually $10-$20 bucks each), some on Amazon used books or Alibris.com. There are 4-5 on eBay right now. Rikster2 (talk) 23:13, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks so much. - Hoops gza (talk) 23:20, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

It looks like Tico Brown was out of the CBA for 1985-86. I will see if I can dig up his whereabouts. - Hoops gza (talk) 01:46, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Don Smith (basketball, born 1946) vs. Zaid Abdul-Aziz|Don Smith

With my appreciation for your thoughtful posting regarding the above subject, the reply is at User talk:Roman Spinner#Zaid Abdul-Aziz / Don Smith (basketball, born 1946) —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 07:10, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Mustapha Farrakhan, Jr.

Dear Rikster2, the article about Mustapha Farrakhan, Jr. doesn't mention anything about a significant role that Mustapha Farrakhan, Jr. might have played personally within Nation of Islam. So therefore Nation of Islam is not a defining characteristic of the article. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:58, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Splitting of Category:Ice hockey people from Ontario

Having closed Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 August 12#Category:Ice hockey people from Detroit, and implemented the closure, I started to get worried about the size of Category:Ice hockey people from Ontario - currently almost at 1,200. A currently open discussion, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 August 13#Category:Ice hockey people from Markham, Ontario, proposes upmerging more articles there. Being that you participated in one or both of these discussions, you may be interested in a related discussion at Category talk:Ice hockey people from Ontario#Splitting of this category. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:37, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Please take at look at these . . . .

Category:Sportsperson navigational boxes, and let me know what you think. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:10, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi DL - I'm not quite sure what I am supposed to be looking at. I do think eponymous templates are appropriate for some athletes (Michael Jordan and Muhammad Ali come to mind), but to be truthful I haven't heard of several of the athletes on the page, so it makes me wonder if they are appropriate in all cases. I also notice there are a lot of tennis players and boxers. Rikster2 (talk) 11:32, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what to make of navboxes for individual athletes just yet. Some may work, but what attracted me to them in the first place was Maria Sharapova's navbox at the bottom of Jimmy Connor's page, which had me saying, "Huh?" He was briefly her coach last year. Given the proliferation of navbox madness with the crufters, the last thing we need is one jock's personal navbox at the bottom of another jock's article. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:57, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

You're going to go crazy if you keep fighting this

. . . one! Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:57, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

That actually doesn't bother me. It's very simple to revert. The links are so people can get to the team article if they want to. The second link serves no purpose except some users' version of aesthetics. Rikster2 (talk) 19:59, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I know, Coach Sisyphus. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:04, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

2014 NBA draft

I won't revert anymore, but I still think predicting who will and won't play before the season started is WP:CRYSTALBALL and WP:OR. IMO there is too many inaccuracies and assumption, for example:

• Embiid and Brown are highlighted because of injury, but Embiid could still return before the end of the season (though very unlikely), while Brown could return around February (if the Suns sign him)
• Labeyrie and Huestis are not highlighted, but Labeyrie is still unsigned by Pacers and still under contract in France, while Huestis is still unsigned and is predicted to be stashed in the D-League.

Furthermore the legend says that "Denotes player who never played in the NBA regular season and playoffs" while each and every one of the draftees has never played any NBA game as of now. My suggestion is that no highlight until at least the season started and these draftees started seeing game time. — MT (talk) 03:16, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Single-season articles for NBA or WNBA players

Hey, Rikster. A recent issue has arisen at AfD, which as far as I know is a novel one. WP:NSEASONS is written to address when single seasons of major sports teams may be notable, and when stand-alone articles for such individual seasons may be appropriate. The new issue is whether stand-alone articles are appropriate for single seasons/years of individual athletes. Are you aware of any single-season articles for NBA or WNBA players? If so, can you identify them for me? Does WP Basketball have any internal standards for such articles, if any exist, or are you relying on WP:GNG? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:28, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

As far as I know, there are none. Typically that kind of info can fit in an article and frankly sounds like too much detail if it can't. Rikster2 (talk) 01:31, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Well, I'll let you judge for yourself, but a 50,000 to 100,000-byte single-season article for every year of an individual athlete's career strikes me as an awful lot of detail. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:44, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#An idea that could change HUNDREDS of article names

Hey, we need you to chime in on this. I've posted comments to each of these four Requested Move discussions identified on the WP:CFB talk page, by explaining, as clearly and succinctly as I know how, the established consensus naming conventions for college sports articles -- that is the university short name (e.g., "Florida State"), plus the university's varsity team's mascot (e.g., "Seminoles"), yields the sports team name (e.g., "Florida State Seminoles"), which is also the WP:COMMONNAME used by the mainstream media. This should be a slam dunk, but for the fact that these RM discussion have become hopelessly confused as to when it is appropriate to use the "Lady ___" construction in the article titles, and the inexperienced college sports editors who have been participating don't know the origins and reasons for our naming conventions. These discussions are being poked and prodded by a regular participant in WP:MOS and WP:AT to adopt a completely new nomenclature and naming scheme for American college sports articles. Unless more knowledgeable college sports editors participate in these discussions, we could wind up with four horrible precedents that could take months of additional wrangling to correct, leading to the inevitable instability in article titles as less knowledgeable editors start to implement what they perceive to be a new "consensus." Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:16, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Reid Gettys

I have added an infobox to Reid Gettys. I was not able to find some of the common information, though I did not look very hard. For instance, there may be a Houston Cougars media guide out there. I would appreciate it if you could look it over and add the CBA/other leagues information that you can. - Hoops gza (talk) 16:12, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Rikster2. Were you unable to find any CBA information on Gettys? - Hoops gza (talk) 21:14, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

pretty sure he just played the one season for Albany after his college career was over. He's not in any of the later guides. Rikster2 (talk) 21:15, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Question

Hi, Rikster, I have left a question for you on my talk page. I tried pinging you. - Hoops gza (talk) 15:35, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Jack Stone DOB/DOD

I'm wondering if this is the grave and DOB/DOD for Jack Stone (not necessarily a supporting source, but this would be another one). The time periods make sense, and the fact that he's buried in Kansas, but there's no smoking gun pointing at it being Jack. I tried using newspapers.com and google but couldn't find an obituary on him. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:53, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I'll see what I can find. That looks probable, but need something that clearly corroborates it. Rikster2 (talk) 17:43, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

This would indicate that Stone was already married when K-State went to the Final Four to someone named Bette. Hmmm. Rikster2 (talk) 17:50, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Hm, interesting indeed. Not a big deal to me if we can't verify it. I dislike basketball bios with no DOB/DOD but if nothing can be done, so be it! Thanks for checking. Jrcla2 (talk) 01:40, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Clifford Luyk

Hey. I recently discovered this article, after another editor had added a Florida Gators basketball category to it and it popped up on my radar screen. It was an eye-opener for me, having never heard of Luyk, and then poring through the Gators media guide and discovering that he was a Big Deal for the Gators in the early 1960s, and an even Bigger Deal playing for Real Madrid in Spain. I've added all the college content that seems proportionate, but I would like to round out his professional playing and coaching career with properly sourced material. What English-language references, if any, do you have for Real Madrid, the Spanish league, and Euroleague? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:12, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

You can start with this. I'll poke around for more. Try Googling "Clifford Luyk Real Madrid" for starters Rikster2 (talk) 18:15, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

This is another source. The Real Madrid site is translated to English (since their soccer team has a worldwide fan base). Also, the FIBA and Euroleague sites are primarily in English. Rikster2 (talk) 18:17, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

One more. Rikster2 (talk) 18:29, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

When is it appropriate to use six-digit vs. eight-digit year spans?

Rik, WP:DATERANGE provides both the general rule, and and two exception to the rule for (1) sports seasons that straddle two calender years, and (2) a range of sports seasons in an infobox. First, the general rule:

"A pure year–year range is written (as is any range) using an en dash . . . , not a hyphen or slash; this dash is usually unspaced (that is, with no space on either side); and the range's "end" year is usually abbreviated to two digits:

• "1881–86; 1881–92 (not 1881–6; 1881 – 86)"

Then, the two related exceptions:

"Periods straddling two different years, including sports seasons, are generally written with the range notation (2005–06). The slash notation (2005/06) may be used to signify a fiscal year or other special period, if that convention is used in reliable sources.

"A range of sports seasons in an infobox may also be written as 2005–2010."

The first exception does not apply because we are dealing with coaching tenures, not individual sports seasons. I wrote the language of the first exception; it was intended to apply to single sports seasons that straddle two calendar years, as is typical in American basketball and other winter sports, and to preclude some goofy European-based format that would have imposed a six-digit-with-slash format never used in American (or apparently British) sports media.

The second exception does not apply because these are navboxes, not infoboxes. As you may recall, the underlying logic of the sports infobox exception was the eight-digit format was better for sports infoboxes because the individual four-digit years in the range were usually linked to NBA, NFL, MLB season articles and the like, and four-digit season links side by side with two-digit season links didn't make a lot of sense. (For sports with year-straddling seasons like basketball, six-digit year spans made even less sense.) Likewise, the individual years in the parentheticals following infobox honors and awards were often linked to articles about the awards or honors in a given year (e.g., 1980 College Football All-America Team, 2014 NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament, 2001 Pro Bowl, etc.), and link formatting consistency was deemed to take priority.

The logic of the second exception for infoboxes does not apply to the navboxes for coaching successions because (a) navboxes are not infoboxes, and (b) the individual four-digit years are not linked as they typically are in the ranges for coaching and player tenures. In the absence of an applicable exception, the general rule applies, and the year spans in the navboxes should be treated the same as if they were in written in main body text (i.e., six-digit, not eight-digit ranges). I might also add, given the increasingly lengthy nature of some of the coaching and award successions, the six-digit format is 10 to 15 percent more space efficient.

That's all I've got. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:05, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

DL - MOS calls for eight-digit spans for sports tenures. Why on Earth out of hundreds of navboxes would the Florida Gators womens basketball coach box be the lone exception? You can't be serious in raising this now. There was considerable debate and angst around this (albeit while you were gone). You'd have no support in the basketball community for this change. Rikster2 (talk) 01:07, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Rik, as far as I know, there has been no change in the rule or the relevant exception. Please review: the exception, by its own terms, does not apply to "sports tenures" wherever they may be found; the exception applies specifically to infoboxes, and for the reasons I outlined above. Not navboxes. Not section headers. Not year ranges in main body text. I participated in the original MOS discussion, and I strongly supported the infobox exception. If you are telling me that there is a new MOS consensus that specifically states that year ranges in sports articles are always to be presented in the eight-digit format, please link to the MOS discussion for my edumucation. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:25, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

This is the discussion. I fought my ass off to get what should be common sense into MOS. User:Bagumba crafted the final wording (and I thank him for it), and obviously he wrote it a bit too narrowly. DL - you helped CREATE these navboxes with the eight-digit span. Why in the HELL would you change these now? This is a hot-button issue for me. It has caused me to quit Wikipedia once, almost a second time and finally I thought it was resolved. If you want to push reversing current usage consensus (which violates no WP guideline), knock yourself out. But you can consider any collaboration with you from me over if that's the case. I'm sorry, these are the points where WP is way more fucking trouble than it's worth. Rikster2 (talk) 01:33, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Rik, it is not my intent to cause you heartache. If this is that important to you, I'll simply ignore it. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:44, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

The spirit of the change was that 8 digits do not necessarily apply to text, which can be written like "from 2005 through 2010", not "from 2005–2010". Also, the original proposal noted that (emphasis from original text) "this format is used in infoboxes (not text) by most of the major sports projects." While the original discussion mostly talked about infoboxes and the guideline only refers to infoboxes, the spirit was that it was applicable to anywhere an endash range is used. I think we should look at the precedent of using 8 digits in existing navboxes. Afterall, per Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines, a guideline "simply documents existing practices, rather than proposing a change to them."—Bagumba (talk) 02:02, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Actually, my original proposal was "Request to formally insert language that an 8-digit date range format be allowable for sport tenures." It was specifically meant to cover A) team tenures in infoboxes and B) coaching tenures in templates. I use "infoboxes" and templates somewhat interchangeably (obviously to my own peril). The point was it should be acceptable shorthand for (example) "from 1978 to 1994" in places where shorthand made sense. Rikster2 (talk) 02:10, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Wording aside, that was my understanding too. I was also probably conservative in the wording given that 1) there was no exact wording in the proposal to add verbatim 2) I didnt want others to railroad that apparent consensus on a technicality that the wording was more lenient than discussed.—Bagumba (talk) 02:26, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm with Bagumba and Rikster here in support of the eight-digit format in navboxes or wherever else a span of sports seasons is expressed with the endash. This form should generally appear in text only as a parenthetical. In the flow of prose, a range of years should be written out with prepositions. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:49, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Perry Clark

I'm new to Wiki and the process. I'm curious why Perry Clark's info when from an interesting summary of his contributions to a few sentences. Can anyone, like User:CutOffTies just do mass deletions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Perry_Clark&diff=353532512&oldid=352656663 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.176.162.94 (talk) 21:51, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, that edit was over four years ago, but it seems the content he/she deleted was cut and pasted directly from Clark's Miami bio. That's copyrighted material and you can't just cut and paste information from other sources. Articles actually have to be written. Rikster2 (talk) 05:37, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Kent Bazemore

Okay, thanks for your clarification. However, Kent Bazemore has agreed to terms with the Atlanta Hawks for a 2 year, $4 Million dollar deal. "Hawks sign Bazemore".. I'm not sure what else you need. If you mean that he has not been added to the "updated" roster on the Hawks' website then yes. But the deal has been announced.

Draft

Ah, ok. I thought if they were not drafted this field does not need to be there. Sorry about that. Kante4 (talk) 13:07, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Question about controversial edits to articles

These edits for this user here [[6]] - at first I just noticed it because of some edits made to the article of Ioannis Bourousis. I just removed the edits. But then they were put back again. I got a message on my talk page from the editor saying they should not be removed and were true and from legit sources. I explained back why they are not proper edits. I have since gone back and tried to fix the edits, but looking at the sources and links I still think they are improper because they link to simply false reports and accusations. Things that were not true and were simply proven to be false accusations against someone. The edits basically claimed Bourousis doped and was caught to have doped, and was caught on a taped phone call buying drugs. Only that is not remotely close to true or what happened at all. But even if explaining that, this editor is able to find links to sources claiming that. These are very controversial edits and I do not believe can be proper for Wikipedia rules. So I went and checked their other edit history and saw they made similar edits at the article Dimitris Melissanidis. And that someone else tried to remove those edits and the same editor put them back, even after another editor tried to explain why those would be controversial and improper edits for the site. At least as they are worded and sourced they are. In the way as to make false accusations or old charges seem as if they were proven true, or sources that were claiming something false and proven as such to be factual. Especially for a site based in English and for English readers, but when these issues would be in Greek language and thus people reading the English Wiki would not know better. And if an edit was made about an allegation, it did not specify how later on they were proven to be false or ill founded, or that the person in question was cleared of any wrongdoing, or etc. I am pretty sure these must be breaking some kind of Wikipedia rules, but I said I would take it to a discussion with a mod or someone who knew better, when I changed one of the edits. Because I am not sure. It just seems though to me that these kinds of edits have to be breaking some kind of site policy. You can see it in the recent history for the Dimitris Melissanidis article [[7]] and the same in the recent history for the Ioannis Bourousis article [[8]] I am hoping you know the site's policies on this kind of stuff better. I don't want to keep changing the edits because the other editor Partoni seems intent on keeping these edits, so I think it is better to discuss it in general.Bluesangrel (talk) 22:24, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

If the sections are cited using reliable sources, and written in NPOV voice, they are allowed. If you don't believe the sources to be reliable, or if you think the editor is writing them in an biased tone, or if you think the controversies are being given undue weight, you can delete them and tell the editor why. Rikster2 (talk) 02:14, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Phillips 66ers photos

Those are excellent additions to articles. Where are you getting them? Keep it up. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:54, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

I own about a dozen Phillips 66er programs/yearbooks and I scan them. They weren't copywrighted so they are usuable (much like school yearbook pictures). Only a few of the ones I have scan well with my scanner, but if I can get around to going to Kinko's to use a higher resolution one I have a bunch more for guys like Paul Lindeman, Bobby Speight, etc. Probably another 20 or so photos. Rikster2 (talk) 12:57, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Good stuff. The offline sources you own for AAU, CBA, etc. have been invaluable. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:12, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Sock puppet

Hey, seeing as you were involved with these two users and the sock puppetry investigation, it's very early on, but I reckon I've found that same person again – this time an IP and a new user. Similar to the other two users, they both stopped editing at the same time, similar type of user page intro, the new user happens to be named UConn similar to the kind of edits the first two users used to do i.e. Shabazz Napier, Stefanie Dolson, Kevin Ollie (all UConn related); and the IP has been doing the same early life edits as the first two users used to do. Dunno if you care, but any thoughts? Just seems intriguing, and if this continues, I shall be starting another sock puppet investigation. DaHuzyBru (talk) 18:02, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Totally the same person - I can tell for several reasons. Open up the investigation and I'll chime in. Rikster2 (talk) 20:42, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Was dealt with. Thanks nonetheless. DaHuzyBru (talk) 00:23, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Recruiting coverage used to establish notability

Rikster, in reviewing the available mainstream sources for Ivan Rabb, I am reminded of how problematic recruiting coverage is in determining the notability of a high school or college athlete. I think we've arrived at a general understanding that AfD will exclude Scout.com, Rivals.com, etc., coverage of the recruiting process in determining notability, but what do we do with mainstream media coverage of recruiting like you found for Rabb? Given the relatively high number of highly recruited high school star players who are relative busts in college, I'm contemplating that recruiting coverage should be ignored completely, regardless of whether it's from a subscription recruiting service like Rivals, or from a mainstream media outlet. Perhaps we simply define recruiting coverage as being WP:ROUTINE, and exclude it in that manner. I'm viewing this from the perspective of the relatively high number of articles about college jocks who did relatively little in college after initial hype, never played in the pros, and we're stuck with the articles that were largely based on the hype. Reaction? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:23, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, it's tough. The very top athletes DO get real press. And the Rabb stuff is real press. If there are personal profiles of a high school athlete in national media (and not just in the recruiting section of ESPN.com), then why shouldn't there be an article? I guess my fear is that there are already WAY too many people on Wikipedia who want to reduce notability for sports figures generally and I'm not all that interested in contributing to this when there is already a reduced standard. And "recruiting coverage" needs to be defined. What about LeBron James or Tom McMillen who had feature articles and covers for Sports Illustrated as high schoolers? Conceptually I don't disagee with you, it's the execution that worries me. Rikster2 (talk) 19:54, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't claim to have all the answers, Rik, but when I see these lame post-college "limbo" articles that have little substance, but can't be deleted without great effort at AfD, I surely can see the problem. Part of that is a result of past acceptance of recruiting coverage in the determination of notability. Add that to the Wikipedia phenomenon in which a certain class of editors do nothing but create stubs for marginally notable subjects, usually before any realistic determination of notability can be made. Generally speaking, I think two things need to happen: first, we need to define what "significant coverage" means in the context of college sports -- no more two-sentence post-game coverage and other lightweight sources when we're determining notability. Second, Scout, Rivals, etc., need to be expressly excluded for notability purposes. The emphasis needs to be on coverage in the mainstream sports and news media. And, yes, I do recognize that there are going to be 3 or 4 high school phenoms every year who can objectively satisfy GNG with mainstream media coverage; most of them will, of course, later satisfy one the specific sports notability guidelines, too.

Anecdotally, I recently participated in the AfD for some obscure female wrestler, and it was a real eye-opener. Despite the complete absence of any coverage in the mainstream news or sports media, there were several wrestling regulars who wanted to fight tooth and nail to keep the article. Seems the pro wrestling project has defined 4 or 5 wrestling paysites as "reliable sources" for notability purposes. It was an interesting experience -- and, yes, the article was eventually deleted, but the AfD discussion was a bloodbath. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

DL, the problem is that Wikipedia notability guidelines are totally messed up. In today's world, there are thousands of "media services" out there - blogs, websites, print periodicals, specialty press, etc. Even if you ban Scout and rivals (which I'd be fine with), mainstream media has started to look for "different angles" in their news so coverage of individuals (not just in sports) has gotten extremely specific as legit news service have to compete with social media for eyeballs. But putting all that aside, WP notablity is an absolute joke. I'm a basketball guy. It galls me that an article like Jarrod Polson exists and made it through an AfD review. He is not notable in any way, shape or form in basketball, except to diehard Kentucky fans. Meanwhile, I have to fight over All-American college players from the 50s because they "aren't professional." Hell, we even had an AfD of an NFL player recently, which to me says the system is broken. Meanwhile, you have professional "MOS jockeys" who literally spend all their time on WP policy and never (or rarely) actually create or edit articles. I recently was involved in a category discussion where there was a block of three editors pushing one POV opposite a number of names I recognized as active sports editors. I did a little test to see where their last 100 edits were and well north of 95% for all three were concerning cAtegories or AfDs (in other words, never actually editing, but wielding undue influence in the CfD realm). If we can write a notability standard that makes sense for HS athletes, I'm on board. But I am incredibly cynical about WP and the view of sports (particularly American sports) and don't expect a good faith discussion. I'd almost be in favor of NSPORTS guidelines that supercede GNG (ie - if you played in the NBA/NFL or were an All-American in football or men's basketball, you are notable no ifs ands or buts). There are too many snakes in the grass out there who want to castrate sports articles because they don't think sports are a valuable pursuit. Point blank. But if you (or someone) can craft a reasonable standard I'll take part in good faith. But if some clown like Masem comes in in his efforts to cut back sport notability guidelines (when half his articles only get coverage in video game press), I won't be nice. Rikster2 (talk) 01:38, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

By the way, the guy who fought tooth and nail to keep Jarod Polson (one of those articles that in 5 years people will wonder wtf anyone was thinking in creating it) is the same guy who wanted to delete and salt the 2015 NBA draft article and the article about the 2015 Pan Am basketball tournament. People are idiots. Rikster2 (talk) 01:45, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Rikster, for every Masem there is, you've still got editors like DL, Jweiss, Cbl, and myself who know the importance of sports articles and what/who is considered notable or not. It's an uphill battle sometimes, but we've always done a good job at defending the shield (lol Goodell...what a clown, to put it nicely). This is just a note of solidarity more than anything. Masem and professional MOSers are absolute jokes. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:56, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

I am sure he is a nice enough guy, but his agenda is as clear as day. If the only time you ever touch a certain topic area is to try to reduce coverage of that topic area, you have an agenda. Rikster2 (talk) 17:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

• Guys, I have specific reactions to virtually every point referenced above -- Masem and application of NSPORTS, one-game NFL players from the 1920s, anti-sports bias, inconsistent NSPORTS standards and application thereof, MOS-only editors, Jarod Polson vs. GNG, All-Americans vs. NCOLLATH vs. GNG, recruiting coverage vs. mainstream media, the increasingly fragmented concept of modern "media" -- but I think we're just venting at this point. I don't always agree with Rik, Jrcla, Jweiss or Cbl on every particular, but there's plenty of commonality of purpose and outlook amongst us, and usually a common rational approach to issues as they arise. If you want to start picking those issues apart, one at a time, I'm game. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:11, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

DL, if you want to work on recruiting-specific guidelines for HS athletes I am game. The other stuff is mostly venting that there are multiple levels of issues that this stuff is wrapped up in. If we do work on this, don't forget that in addition to the "stubbers" there are people like TonytheT who creates a lot of HS athlete articles that are very thorough and use sources that today are assumed suitable for notability purposes. This would be a big change effort and I just get skeptical about what it takes to make any major MOS change. Rikster2 (talk) 17:11, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Trouble with disambiguation

Hello. I was working on a page regarding the Malabo Kings basketball team, and found out that there are multiple players on the team with the name "Francisco Mba." They have the same nationalities and I cannot find their birthdates on any reliable sources. What should either of these pages be named? Temple of the Mousy (talk) 15:53, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

If you can't find DOBs don't link them. Doesn't sound like you can come up with a reasobale DAB here. Rikster2 (talk) 20:23, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Question about protecting pages (possible conflict of interests)

Hi. I talk to you because you're a WikiBasketball project member.

I've got a problem at the Liga ACB article. It is about an anonym editor who wants to change all the format of the article adding unnecesarily a "list of champions" section with the classic flags used in the Italian wikipedia. Is possible to protect the page because of this? How do you request it?

Thank you for your help. Cheers. Asturkian (talk) 20:03, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Ask User:Bagumba, he is a basketball editor who is also an admin. Rikster2 (talk) 20:22, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Notability of women's college basketball player

What's your take on the notability of a female college basketball player who lacks significant coverage to satisfy GNG, was drafted in the 3rd round of the WNBA Draft, but never played a minute in a regular season WNBA game? This is not a hypothetical: I have a Gator women's player, Tombi Bell, and I don't know what to do with her. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 06:24, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

if she doesn't meet GNG then she probably should go. Rikster2 (talk) 11:52, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Works for me. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:22, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Ray Steiner

I saw your note on WT:BASEBALL. According to the first reference in the Ray Steiner you wrote ("Over My Shoulder", in the Fond Memories section, it says "He hadn't played much for Coach Sparky Stalcup..." which would imply that he did play, albeit not much. I feel like Steiner should have Missouri added to his infobox / category. Thoughts? Jrcla2 (talk) 19:47, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I really prefer to get hard confirmation. That feels too ambiguous to me. I am pretty conservative around this stuff, though. Rikster2 (talk) 19:58, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi

hey i'm sorry for the trivia

iuuxx3 (talk) 9:14, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Category:American men's basketball players

Hey Rikster2, it's been a while now and you still have not nominated Category:American men's basketball players and its subcats for deletion. Could you please do this soon? - Hoops gza (talk) 18:31, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

I should be able to get to this in the upcoming week. I also have a few templates I need to put up for TfD so I just need a block of time to do it all. Should have it this week. Rikster2 (talk) 11:32, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

You still haven't done this. - Hoops gza (talk) 15:30, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, this has been closed as a no consensus/keep. That leaves us in the unfortunate, daunting position of having to populate it. How would you like to proceed with this? - Hoops gza (talk) 23:39, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm not populating it. You can do what you want, it's still a bogus category. Rikster2 (talk) 23:55, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Giannis Antetokounmpo

With Giannis Antetokounmpo's height, a while back, I was continually fighting to keep it as 6'9" but IPs always put it back to 6'11" because of reports like these. But after his NBA summer league profile (still NBA.com) listed 6'11" I finally gave in and despite disagreements with other editors, it was finally settled and now the only edits to him ate these bloody changes to his position i.e. small forward → point guard / point forward – it's ridiculous. I really think with this circumstance, we should revert back to 6'11" because it is just going to be changed back in the next few days. I recently added another note that provided a source to his FIBA profile which listed him as 211 cm which is 6'11"; so with that source and his summer league listed height, I think that should do as they are both pretty reliable. I wish people would accept the "NBA.com is the official source" explanation, but they don't and it's frustrating to fight it, and really, general people never take any notice of hidden notes anyway. DaHuzyBru (talk) 04:03, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I think it's NBA season and his NBA officially listed height and weight are what should be used. The Bucks will update the info on their roster when they produce a final roster. Until then, there is some float as to what the fields read (and some movement might be reasonable), but once the Bucks commit to offical weight/height taht is what should be there. A lot of players have variable listed heights and weights. For active players, there needs to be a clear standard of which to use and that standard is their current team profile. Bleacher Report isn't considered a reliable source yet, by the way. Rikster2 (talk) 12:28, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Of course Bleacher Report isn't reliable – it's awful; I was just linking it to you to show you the reasons behind why people started to change his height to 6'11". It's a bit like what happened when Paul George was reported to have grown from 6'8" to 6'10". I just think it's easier to list 6'11" with his summer league height as a reference. NBA.com are pretty average at updating their player profiles and they will most likely not update Antetokounmpo's height it from 6'9" to 6'11" for this season. And yes, there has to be a line in the sand at what heights we list in the infoboxes and I will continue to push that, but I reckon an exception could be made here. Also, regarding the Bucks listing him as 6'11", he is listed as that here. DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:19, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

[9] And there we go... DaHuzyBru (talk) 18:19, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Round pegs and square holes

Rik, I undid your conversion of redirects to red links in the Florida Gators men's basketball coach navbox. I have thoroughly researched Check Byrd, Spurgeon Cherry and Ed Visscher, and it is my opinion, based on available secondary sources, that they are not notable and never will be. In AfD discussions, I often repeat the mantra that most modern-era Division I coaches are notable; there are many from the pre-modern era who simply are not. Many current Division I programs were small-time affairs in the past, and their coaches from earlier eras simply did not get a lot of coverage. Florida's pre-World War II basketball program was only a step or two above being an intramural program; its best athletes were usually scholarship football players, and three (McCoy, Kline, Cody) of the first seven coaches were the head football coaches who needed to make an extra few hundred dollars by coaching the hoops team. Another (White) was the athletic director and baseball coach.

Byrd was a former Florida team captain who was coach for a single season in the 1920s; he got more ink for his later law career (still non-notable). Clemons was a former multi-sport jock for the Gators (hence the redirect to his 100-word bio in the Hall of Fame article), and a long-time assistant football coach. Spurgeon Cherry was a career assistant football coach who also coached the basketball during World War II. Ed Visscher was a career assistant who finished out a half season for the fired John Lotz. There is insufficient significant coverage in independent reliable sources to support stand-alone Wikipedia articles for any of them. The best that could be done is to create a list of Florida basketball coaches and include a career paragraph for each. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 03:49, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

OK, but why redirect names from a template that is a list of coaches to ... a list of coaches? That feels misleading to the reader who sees a blue link and assumes they will be going to an article on the subject or at least some more substantive information. If you are positive these guys aren't notable (and I am assuming that you re-checked with newspapers.com and did things like search Visscher's career at prep power Long Island Lutheran prior to coming to UF), then it feels like no links would be more honest. Rikster2 (talk) 11:56, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, the Ben Clemons redirect sends the reader to the UFHOF section with a 100-word description of his career; the other three are redirect to a coaches list in the main Gators basketball. It's been my plan to eventually redirect all of them to a new list of Florida basketball coaches, where we could at least provide a paragraph about each in the sequence of coaches. In the mean time, at least they are redirected to the main article where the reader can read the history of the program. Yes, the temporary solution is not a perfect solution, but we also have to comply with WP:NAVBOX: permanent red links should not be included, and unlinked primary text is not supposed to be included, either. I suppose I will have to move the creation of the new list of Gators basketball coaches up my priority list . . . I guess I could expand the coaches list in the main article first, and then spin it out as the new "list of" article. Dirtlawyer1 (talk)

The Clemons redirect at least makes sense to me (I'm kind of surprised a UF HOF inductee as a player who coaches 2 varsity sports doesn't somehow meet GNG, but if anyone would know it's you). Today the others point o a coach list that literally has no other info than that which is on the template. I'm going to research Visscher more though, I think he might pass (though newspapers.com is down right now so I can't check there). Rikster2 (talk) 12:36, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Out of the 250+ Gators Greats, we now have Wikipedia articles for about 70% of them; I only have plans to create articles for two or three more -- we have about exhausted the truly notable ones. (Cbl62 recently cherry-picked 5 or 6 of the most notable ones remaining and created articles for them.) Remember, the early Gator jocks from the teens, 20s, 30s and even 40s may have been great athletes, and well remembered by their teammates, but they attended a relatively small university with a sports program of fairly consistent mediocrity. Located in a small north Florida town, and zero championships of any kind, that's sort of to be expected. When I created the Sam McAllister, James L. White and Tommy Bartlett articles in 2011, and built out McCoy, Kline, Cody, Maurer, Sloan and Lotz, I spent quite a bit of time on Google News Archive seeing what was out there. My assessment at the time was that Visscher didn't make the cut; not even close. If you can find enough significant content on Visscher to sustain his notability, I would be grateful. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:40, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

First-team and second-team

If you are going to move "first team" from "All-XYZ First Team" from the end to beginning, I think it should be "First-team All-XYZ". "First-team" is an adjective, which MOS:HYPHEN says hyphens should be used "To link related terms in compound modifiers". User:Dirtlawyer1 had similar sentiments at earlier discussion at User_talk:Rikster2/Archive_3#All-NBA.2C_All-American_and_all-conference_honors.—Bagumba (talk) 04:52, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

• Roger that. I think we're all on the same page here: "first team All-American" is not correct unless "first-team" is hyphenated when used as an adjective. Also, just to be perfectly clear, "First" in "First-team All-American" is only going to be capitalized when it's used in the infobox because it's the initial word; "first" in "first-team All-American" should not be capitalized in text. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 07:20, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Why o why would you post this on my Talk page when it could have easily been added to the active discussion at WP:NBA? But ok, we'll put "first-team" before "All-Conference" and be done with it. While we're determining policy on user pages, why don't you weigh in on this, Dirtlawyer1: User talk:Bagumba#Dashes for two consecutive years. Rikster2 (talk) 10:45, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, Rik. I thought I was being helpful. No reason not to cut and paste the above comments to WT:CBB.

BTW, I answered your ndash question above (but I suspect you already knew the answer). Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:30, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

My comment was more to Bagumba. My concern is that if the consensus changes, the discussion at WP:NBA is the one we would refer people to, and splitting the hyphen dicussion to my Talk page isn't good practice. BTW - I may have misread your response to the endash question on Bagumba's talk page. It's less about tenures (where the endash is always replacing the word "to") and more about when an endash is used to shorthand a list of achievements in consecutive years ("2010, 2011" vs. "2010-2011"). Pretty sure the "real world" convention would use commas for two consecutive years ("2x NBA All-Star (1985, 1986)") vs an endash ("2x NBA All-Star (1985-1986)"), but to use enashes to represent a span of 3 or more years ("4x NBA All-Star (2003-2006)") vs commas ("4x NBA All-Star (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006)"). In this case, the endash is replacing the intervening years of the span (2004 and 2005 in the example), which serves a purpose. In two consecutive years it is replacing "," - which serves no space-saving purpose and I'm pretty sure is incorrect (though searching style guide info on-line is difficult). Rikster2 (talk) 13:54, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure that there is a real world convention for such a thing as award years in a parenthetical, except to say if there are ten consecutive years, then a ndash might be appropriate. With Wikipedia sports conventions, we have always listed the individual award years, not least of which is because they are not usually continuous. I've always rationalized this as tenures represent continuous spans of time, whereas awards represent distinct events, not continuous spans. I suspect, however, in all likelihood the present Wikipedia sports conventions had more to do with linking award years rather than anything that logical. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:03, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

@Rikster2: My intention was not to fragment any discussions. This user talk page reminder was mainly to avoid the appearance of a public reprimand of your parallel edits e.g. to Roy Hibbert et al while the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association#.22First_Team.22_vs._.22first_team.22 was ongoing. I'm not likely to feel strong enough in this to either carry out the mass changes on past convention, nor revert those who attempt it. I was just suggesting to use the hyphen per MOS if you were going to proceed further with these edits.—Bagumba (talk) 17:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

@Bagumba: OK. However, in the absence of a standard (and we do NOT have one today) I was free to make those edits. I get your point, though. Rikster2 (talk) 18:04, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

B. J. Anthony

Hey, no big deal, but I just thought I'd let you know that the award you removed from B. J. Anthony was not a traditional "all-tournament" team award. It was basically All-CBL team, they just had it as Tournament Team because it was more of a tournament-type league, see here. It doesn't mean a separate tournament to the league whereby yes, it doesn't meet pro basketball threshold. However, I'm not going to put it back in as the CBL was barely a league and it's not really a highlight anyway. All good :) DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:12, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Basketball All-American selectors?

Hey, what is the "CP" listed as a selector organization in the table in 2014 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans? I thought CP might be the old Central Press Association, but it's been gone since the early 1970s. No footnotes in the article leaves it a mystery. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:43, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

It isn't a selector, it is the column that shows a players "consensus points" based on their selection to the AP, US Basketball Writers Ass'n, National Ass'n of Basketball Coaches and Sporting News teams. These point totals are what determines which players make up the consensus 1st and 2nd teams. Rikster2 (talk) 13:46, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Got it: three third-team selections equals three consensus points (3 x 1 = 3). I am aware of the NCAA consensus points system, but the CP abbreviation used in the table was not self-evident to me. Probably needs an abbreviation key or we should use the "hover" abbreviation wiki-coding that shows the meaning of the abbreviation when a reader places their mouse cursor over it. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:58, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it probably does need a key. I can probably get to it sometime before college hoops season starts. Rikster2 (talk) 14:02, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Invitation for a discussion: Serbia national basketball team

Hey, I would like to invite you for a discussion here: Final disscussion: Results/medals history. Please, participate.--AirWolf ^talk 13:34, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

CBA teams

Hey, Rikster. Since you have those CBA guides, I thought you might like to know that there are still plenty of CBA teams for which we do not have an article, as can be seen at Continental Basketball Association franchise history. Perhaps you could create some articles on those redlinks? Just an idea. - Hoops gza (talk) 16:13, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

I'll take a look, but I have a lot of other things on my to do list that I'd be more excited about. Article creation takes a lot of focused time, as opposed to style or category edits. Thanks for the suggestion. Rikster2 (talk) 16:21, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

NBA player articles

Hi Rikster2,

It is important to create articles in the correct format. I must have been copying the format off another article that was not quite correct. I'll correct this from now on. Robert4565 (talk) 23:11, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of the Euroleague Finals article

Hi. I have just proposed the deletion of this article because its text is exactly the same as it appears in the Euroleague Basketball#Finals article. I'd appreciate your collaboration in this discussion. Asturkian (talk) 00:24, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Pages to check

Hey Rikster, just a heads up to keep an eye on these contributions. Lots of NBA players' articles being made. I can't really get to these like I used to. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 04:19, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Just noticed you already knew about him. Scratch my comment. Jrcla2 (talk) 04:22, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Final Four categories

Do you include the consolation games in these? By the way, Lou Roney has the wrong infobox. - Hoops gza (talk) 00:05, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I use the NCAA Final Four records book exclusively (objective standard). Not sure if they use the consolation games or not. Rikster2 (talk) 02:33, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

		The NBA WikiProject Barnstar
		Thank you Rikster2 for all the work you put in to make basketball related articles better! Robert4565 (talk) 22:49, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Infobox

Ashante Johnson needs an infobox. - Hoops gza (talk) 00:14, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

League notability

Hey. Going through past archives to find out more, is the Philippine Basketball Association considered a notable league and/or does playing in the PBA meet WP:NBASKETBALL? I would have thought so. I created Markeith Cummings based on that but someone has put it up for AfD. My thinking is, if someone like Duke Mondy qualifies for an article, than Cummings surely does as well. He has played professionally and had an arguably better college career than Mondy. Any thoughts? DaHuzyBru (talk) 08:34, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

You could argue that the PBA is a "similar league" to those in WP:NBASKETBALL. It gets a lot of coverage. Your better bet would probably be to change the sources to clearly demonstrate WP:GNG if you can. This would mean using newspapers, etc. as opposed to league sources, etc. User:HowardtheDuck knows a lot about the PBA, he might be able to help you with sources from the Philippines for that part of his career. I'll take a look at it sometime this weekend. Rikster2 (talk) 13:57, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

BTW, the Duke Mondy article at least has some sources that are independent and of significant coverage of the subject, as opposed to the team he played on. Does Cummings have similar references out there perhaps? Rikster2 (talk) 15:11, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm hunting for sources. I just reckon he meets WP:NBASKETBALL by playing in the PBA, that should be the case. I understand about GNG and third-party sources though, I'll try and add more for his college section. Thanks for the help and advice! DaHuzyBru (talk) 15:35, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Pac-8

Thanks for linking all those bios to the all-pac-12 list. BTW, the conference was Pac-8 before 1978 (and a bunch of other names before that) I've fixed a couple of the articles already.—Bagumba (talk) 20:41, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

OK. FWIW, I consulted Pacific-12 Conference and looked at the list of historic names in the infobox and thought the Pac-8 was til 1968. As I look now, that was for the "unofficial" use of the term, which is listed out of order at the end. Maybe the unofficial names shouldn't be in the infobox, or at least clarified. Rikster2 (talk) 20:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Which is why we "do not use articles from Wikipedia as sources" LOL. I removed them from the infobox.—Bagumba (talk) 21:55, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't really trying to use it as a source. WP just loads faster than the P12 site and is usually correct. Rikster2 (talk) 21:57, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

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All-Conference in infobox

I saw that you added All-Pac-10 to Kevin Love. I avoided adding it before as there was never a consensus to include it for accomplished players with a bunch of NBA highlights already like Love. I had kinda brought it up at Template_talk:Infobox_basketball_biography#College.2FHS_awards, but nobody else showed interested in adding it back then. As he was Pac-10 POY the same year, one could argue all-conf is kinda overkill. I'm ambivalent if it stays for Love (but don't think someone like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar needs the clutter), but there are a few editors that really follow the letter of suggestions at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Article guidelines and might later delete. Currently, it advises to add anything in Template:Men's college basketball award navbox. Any suggestions?—Bagumba (talk) 23:19, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

It's not that big a deal. I personally think it's more significant than any high school honor (even national POY), but I'm not going to argue it. If the editor you are talking about is T23Tran or one of his aliases, I don't give a s**t what he follows - he's a jerk. Rikster2 (talk) 23:25, 30 December 2014 (UTC)