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Hi
I saw that you were the last person to do any editing to the page, so I thought you would be the best person to ask about making changes. I wanted to add some examples of the ablaut in some of the other old IE languages like Sanskrit etc and was wondering if you felt this was appropriate? Ragztoriches (talk) 00:28, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
- I think it would be best to include more information detailing how ablaut, as a system, was inherited and changed within each language. Putting it in the "Subsequent development" section would make the most sense. CodeCat (talk) 00:39, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Proto-Greek language may have broken the syntax by modifying 3 "<>"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
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- ''Αυλών'' in the north including Paravaia, Tymphaia, Athamania, Dolopia, Amphilochia, and Acarnania), west and north Thessaly (Hestiaiotis, Perrhaibia, Tripolis, and Pieria), i.e. more or less the
- Tripolis, and Pieria), i.e. more or less the territory of contemporary northwestern Greece)."}}</ref>]]
- *Loss of final stop consonants; final /m/ -> /n/.
- * *CiHC > *CyeHC > CyēC/CyāC/CyōC; or, *Cih₂C > *Cih₂eC > *CiHaC > *CiyaC > CiaC; or, *CiHC remains without vowel insertion > CīC.
- vocalic resonant, a consonantal copy was apparently inserted in place of the laryngeal (e.g. *CiHV > *CiyV, *CuHV > *CuwV, *CR̥HV possibly > *CR̥RV, with R̥ always remaining as vocalic up until the dissolution of vocalic resonants in the
- | *sy > *hy || *yy
- | *wy || *ɥɥ > *yy
- * PIE ''*dʰyeh₂-'' "notice" > PG ''*tsā-'' > Dor. ''sāma'', Att. ''sêma'' "sign" (Ved. ''dhyā́-'' "thought, contemplation")
- * PreG ''*totyos'' "as much" > PG ''*totsos'' > Att. ''tósos'', Hom. ''tósos/tóssos'' (cf. Ved. ''táti'', Lat. ''tot'' "so much/many")
- * PIE ''*medʰyos'' "middle" > PG ''*metsos'' > Att. ''mésos'', Hom. ''mésos/méssos'', Boeot. ''mettos'', other dial. ''mesos'' (cf. Ved. ''mádhya-
- * PIE ''*h₁erh₁-t-yoh₂'' "I row" > PG ''*ereťťō'' > Attic ''eréttō'', usual non-Attic ''eréssō'' (cf. ''erétēs'' "oarsman")
- * PIE ''*kret-yōs'' > PreG ''*kret-yōn'' "better" > PG ''*kreťťōn'' > Attic ''kreíttōn'',<ref>Lengthened ''-ei'' {{PIE|/eː/}} due to Attic analogical lengthening in
- ** {{PIE|''*m̥''}}, {{PIE|''*n̥''}} > ''*ə'', but > ''*əm'', ''*ən'' before a sonorant. ''*ə'' appears as ''o'' in Mycenaean after a labial, e.g. ''pe-
- PIE ''*str̥-tos'' > usual ''stratos'', Aeolic ''strotos'' "army"; post-PIE ''*ḱr̥di-eh₂'' "heart" > Att. ''kardíā'', Hom. ''kradíē'', Pamphylian ''korzdia''.
- Ionic]], [[Doric Greek|Doric]]) or of the consonant ([[Aeolic Greek|Aeolic]]): ''*esmi'' "I am" > ''ēmi'', ''eimi'' or ''emmi''.
- * Creation of secondary ''s'' from clusters, ''ntja'' > ''nsa'' (this in turn followed by a change similar to the one described above, i.e. loss of the ''
- the one described above, i.e. loss of the ''n'' with compensatory lengthening, e.g. ''apont-ja'' > ''apon-sa'' > ''apō-sa'', "absent", fem.).
- * In southern dialects (including Mycenaean, but not Doric), ''-ti-'' > ''-si-'' ([[assibilation]]).
- * Loss of /h/ (from original /s/), except initially, e.g. Doric ''nikaas'' "having conquered" < ''*nikahas'' < ''*nikasas''.
- * Loss of /j/, e.g. ''treis'' "three" < ''*treyes''.
- was general, but in Attic it did not occur after /i/, /e/ or /r/. (But note Attic ''korē'' "girl" < ''*korwā''; loss of /w/ after /r/ had not occurred at that point in Attic.)
- *Labiovelars next to /u/ had earlier been converted to plain velars. Cf. ''boukólos'' "herdsman" < *gʷou-kʷolos (cf. ''boûs'' "cow" < *gʷou-) vs. ''aipólos'' "goatherd" < *ai(g)-kʷolos (cf. ''aíks'', gen. ''aigós'' "goat"); ''elakhús'' "small" < *h₁ln̥gʷh-ús vs. ''elaphrós'' "light" < *h₁ln̥gʷh-rós.
- /e/ and /i/, while ''gʷ'' became ''d'' before /e/ (but not /i/). Cf. ''theínō'' "I strike, kill" < *gʷhen-yō vs. ''phónos'' "slaughter" < *gʷhón-os; ''delphús'' "womb" < *gʷelbh- ([[Sanskrit]] ''
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Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Proto-Greek language may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "<>"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page(Click show ⇨)
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- ''Αυλών'' in the north including Paravaia, Tymphaia, Athamania, Dolopia, Amphilochia, and Acarnania), west and north Thessaly (Hestiaiotis, Perrhaibia, Tripolis, and Pieria), i.e. more or less the
- Tripolis, and Pieria), i.e. more or less the territory of contemporary northwestern Greece)."}}</ref>]]
- *Loss of final stop consonants; final /m/ -> /n/.
- with compensatory lengthening of the consonant in some cases. For example PIE ''*h₁éḱwos'' > PG ''*íkkʷos'' > Mycenaean ''i-qo'' {{IPA|/ikkʷos/}}, Attic ''híppos'', Aeolic ''íkkos''.
- * *CiHC > *CyeHC > CyēC/CyāC/CyōC; or, *Cih₂C > *Cih₂eC > *CiHaC > *CiyaC > CiaC; or, *CiHC remains without vowel insertion > CīC.
- vocalic resonant, a consonantal copy was apparently inserted in place of the laryngeal (e.g. *CiHV > *CiyV, *CuHV > *CuwV, *CR̥HV possibly > *CR̥RV, with R̥ always remaining as vocalic up until the dissolution of vocalic resonants in the
- | *sy > *hy || *yy
- | *wy || *ɥɥ > *yy
- * PIE ''*dʰyeh₂-'' "notice" > PG ''*tsā-'' > Dor. ''sāma'', Att. ''sêma'' "sign" (Ved. ''dhyā́-'' "thought, contemplation")
- * PreG ''*totyos'' "as much" > PG ''*totsos'' > Att. ''tósos'', Hom. ''tósos/tóssos'' (cf. Ved. ''táti'', Lat. ''tot'' "so much/many")
- * PIE ''*medʰyos'' "middle" > PG ''*metsos'' > Att. ''mésos'', Hom. ''mésos/méssos'', Boeot. ''mettos'', other dial. ''mesos'' (cf. Ved. ''mádhya-
- * PIE ''*h₁erh₁-t-yoh₂'' "I row" > PG ''*ereťťō'' > Attic ''eréttō'', usual non-Attic ''eréssō'' (cf. ''erétēs'' "oarsman")
- * PIE ''*kret-yōs'' > PreG ''*kret-yōn'' "better" > PG ''*kreťťōn'' > Attic ''kreíttōn'',<ref>Lengthened ''-ei'' {{PIE|/eː/}} due to Attic analogical lengthening in
- ** {{PIE|''*m̥''}}, {{PIE|''*n̥''}} > ''*ə'', but > ''*əm'', ''*ən'' before a sonorant. ''*ə'' appears as ''o'' in Mycenaean after a labial, e.g. ''pe-
- PIE ''*str̥-tos'' > usual ''stratos'', Aeolic ''strotos'' "army"; post-PIE ''*ḱr̥di-eh₂'' "heart" > Att. ''kardíā'', Hom. ''kradíē'', Pamphylian ''korzdia''.
- Ionic]], [[Doric Greek|Doric]]) or of the consonant ([[Aeolic Greek|Aeolic]]): ''*esmi'' "I am" > ''ēmi'', ''eimi'' or ''emmi''.
- * Creation of secondary ''s'' from clusters, ''ntja'' > ''nsa'' (this in turn followed by a change similar to the one described above, i.e. loss of the ''
- the one described above, i.e. loss of the ''n'' with compensatory lengthening, e.g. ''apont-ja'' > ''apon-sa'' > ''apō-sa'', "absent", fem.).
- * In southern dialects (including Mycenaean, but not Doric), ''-ti-'' > ''-si-'' ([[assibilation]]).
- * Loss of /h/ (from original /s/), except initially, e.g. Doric ''nikaas'' "having conquered" < ''*nikahas'' < ''*nikasas''.
- * Loss of /j/, e.g. ''treis'' "three" < ''*treyes''.
- was general, but in Attic it did not occur after /i/, /e/ or /r/. (But note Attic ''korē'' "girl" < ''*korwā''; loss of /w/ after /r/ had not occurred at that point in Attic.)
- *Labiovelars next to /u/ had earlier been converted to plain velars. Cf. ''boukólos'' "herdsman" < *gʷou-kʷolos (cf. ''boûs'' "cow" < *gʷou-) vs. ''aipólos'' "goatherd" < *ai(g)-kʷolos (cf. ''aíks'', gen. ''aigós'' "goat"); ''elakhús'' "small" < *h₁ln̥gʷh-ús vs. ''elaphrós'' "light" < *h₁ln̥gʷh-rós.
- /e/ and /i/, while ''gʷ'' became ''d'' before /e/ (but not /i/). Cf. ''theínō'' "I strike, kill" < *gʷhen-yō vs. ''phónos'' "slaughter" < *gʷhón-os; ''delphús'' "womb" < *gʷelbh- ([[Sanskrit]] ''
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Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Proto-Greek language may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "<>"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page(Click show ⇨)
|
- ''Αυλών'' in the north including Paravaia, Tymphaia, Athamania, Dolopia, Amphilochia, and Acarnania), west and north Thessaly (Hestiaiotis, Perrhaibia, Tripolis, and Pieria), i.e. more or less the
- Tripolis, and Pieria), i.e. more or less the territory of contemporary northwestern Greece)."}}</ref>]]
- *Loss of final stop consonants; final /m/ -> /n/.
- with compensatory lengthening of the consonant in some cases. For example PIE ''*h₁éḱwos'' > PG ''*íkkʷos'' > Mycenaean ''i-qo'' {{IPA|/ikkʷos/}}, Attic ''híppos'', Aeolic ''íkkos''.
- * *CiHC > *CyeHC > CyēC/CyāC/CyōC; or, *Cih₂C > *Cih₂eC > *CiHaC > *CiyaC > CiaC; or, *CiHC remains without vowel insertion > CīC.
- vocalic resonant, a consonantal copy was apparently inserted in place of the laryngeal (e.g. *CiHV > *CiyV, *CuHV > *CuwV, *CR̥HV possibly > *CR̥RV, with R̥ always remaining as vocalic up until the dissolution of vocalic resonants in the
- | *sy > *hy || *yy
- | *wy || *ɥɥ > *yy
- | *ňň || colspan="7" | in (but ''*uin'' > ''ūn'')
- | *řř || colspan="7" | ir (but ''*uir'' > ''ūr'')
- * PIE ''*dʰyeh₂-'' "notice" > PG ''*tsā-'' > Dor. ''sāma'', Att. ''sêma'' "sign" (Ved. ''dhyā́-'' "thought, contemplation")
- * PreG ''*totyos'' "as much" > PG ''*totsos'' > Att. ''tósos'', Hom. ''tósos/tóssos'' (cf. Ved. ''táti'', Lat. ''tot'' "so much/many")
- * PIE ''*medʰyos'' "middle" > PG ''*metsos'' > Att. ''mésos'', Hom. ''mésos/méssos'', Boeot. ''mettos'', other dial. ''mesos'' (cf. Ved. ''mádhya-
- * PIE ''*h₁erh₁-t-yoh₂'' "I row" > PG ''*ereťťō'' > Attic ''eréttō'', usual non-Attic ''eréssō'' (cf. ''erétēs'' "oarsman")
- * PIE ''*kret-yōs'' > PreG ''*kret-yōn'' "better" > PG ''*kreťťōn'' > Attic ''kreíttōn'',<ref>Lengthened ''-ei'' {{PIE|/eː/}} due to Attic analogical lengthening in
- ** {{PIE|''*m̥''}}, {{PIE|''*n̥''}} > ''*ə'', but > ''*əm'', ''*ən'' before a sonorant. ''*ə'' appears as ''o'' in Mycenaean after a labial, e.g. ''pe-
- PIE ''*str̥-tos'' > usual ''stratos'', Aeolic ''strotos'' "army"; post-PIE ''*ḱr̥di-eh₂'' "heart" > Att. ''kardíā'', Hom. ''kradíē'', Pamphylian ''korzdia''.
- Ionic]], [[Doric Greek|Doric]]) or of the consonant ([[Aeolic Greek|Aeolic]]): ''*esmi'' "I am" > ''ēmi'', ''eimi'' or ''emmi''.
- * Creation of secondary ''s'' from clusters, ''ntja'' > ''nsa'' (this in turn followed by a change similar to the one described above, i.e. loss of the ''
- the one described above, i.e. loss of the ''n'' with compensatory lengthening, e.g. ''apont-ja'' > ''apon-sa'' > ''apō-sa'', "absent", fem.).
- * In southern dialects (including Mycenaean, but not Doric), ''-ti-'' > ''-si-'' ([[assibilation]]).
- * Loss of /h/ (from original /s/), except initially, e.g. Doric ''nikaas'' "having conquered" < ''*nikahas'' < ''*nikasas''.
- * Loss of /j/, e.g. ''treis'' "three" < ''*treyes''.
- was general, but in Attic it did not occur after /i/, /e/ or /r/. (But note Attic ''korē'' "girl" < ''*korwā''; loss of /w/ after /r/ had not occurred at that point in Attic.)
- *Labiovelars next to /u/ had earlier been converted to plain velars. Cf. ''boukólos'' "herdsman" < *gʷou-kʷolos (cf. ''boûs'' "cow" < *gʷou-) vs. ''aipólos'' "goatherd" < *ai(g)-kʷolos (cf. ''aíks'', gen. ''aigós'' "goat"); ''elakhús'' "small" < *h₁ln̥gʷh-ús vs. ''elaphrós'' "light" < *h₁ln̥gʷh-rós.
- /e/ and /i/, while ''gʷ'' became ''d'' before /e/ (but not /i/). Cf. ''theínō'' "I strike, kill" < *gʷhen-yō vs. ''phónos'' "slaughter" < *gʷhón-os; ''delphús'' "womb" < *gʷelbh- ([[Sanskrit]] ''
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Hi, CodeCat. You removed my edit in the Catalan language article and asked for discussion, so I have started the discussion in the talk page. Maybe I didn't formulate well my explanation and that's why it sounded to you as "the true Scot". What I actually meant is that no scholar supports the RACV theses. When I say no scholar, I mean that no one in the academic world, that is in a university or research centre, supports these theses. They are totally excluded from the academic world.
Regarding the quote, I have been looking for information on the author of the book chapter that is quoted. He is a collaborator of the RACV and is not a linguist. He says in some web pages that he has a diploma in Valencian Philology, while this is a diploma that doesn't exist. In any case, it's normal that he defends the RACV because he is or has been employed by them. Furthermore, the book where this is published deals with linguistic identity, so maybe the ideas of this author can be a good example of a certain linguistic attitude of a part of the Valencians, but the affirmation that "a minority of scholars support the RACV theses" is false because these theses are to the academic world as theses defending that the pyramids of Egypt were created by aliens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toni P. (talk • contribs) 09:59, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello. How can [eɪu oʊi əɪu əʊi] be falling, if in all cases the next vowel is higher/closer than the previous one? [eəɑ] would be falling, not these... Peter238 (talk) 20:44, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
- Falling and closing are different things. These triphthongs are both falling and closing. It's described on Diphthong in more detail. CodeCat (talk) 20:53, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks. Peter238 (talk) 20:57, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
- Could you check the English on Diphthong#Narrow_and_wide? I've just added it. Peter238 (talk) 12:44, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
- It looks ok. CodeCat (talk) 12:46, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Proto-Greek language may have broken the syntax by modifying 3 "<>"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.