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Cretin
Please don't attack other editors, such as you did here. Can you please remove this comment, since it will just aggravate people and make them less willing to listen to you. Tim Vickers (talk) 20:50, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
No. I said the block was cretinous, not the blocker. It was. And the blocker shows no sign of remorse. Therefore the community cannot be confident that he won't make further cretinous blocks. OK? Sarah777 (talk) 20:56, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd be insulting you directly if I described your comment as cretinous, so I'll just say that the word was ill-chosen. Tim Vickers (talk) 21:03, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually, in this case I can confirm the word was very carefully chosen. Not only that but till I get an apology from the offending Admin I am prepared to repeat it. Sarah777 (talk) 21:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Carefully chosen perhaps, but in my view, unwise and counter-productive. If you try to win an argument by insuulting other people this tends to backfire, since it makes people think that you have no facts supporting your position, and that you are instead forced to rely on rhetoric and emotion. Much better to present the facts as clearly as possible and refuse to be diverted into behavior that may make people think that you are the source of the problem. Tim Vickers (talk) 21:16, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
"Anal formatting"???? What problem would folk think I'm the source of? Vk's verbal incontinence? After two years I really don't care any more. That was a disastrous block by Fozzie and I see the same tactic at work here. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me. I'm too long here to expect fairness from the "community". Sarah777 (talk) 21:23, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
And while I am not implying an equivalence between my restoration of deleted articles and Vk's foul-mouthed utterances I am seeing a great similarity in a cretinous Fozzie indef block facilitating a subsequent ban. And I wonder about that..... Sarah777 (talk) 21:13, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
However, I don't, since I don't know anything about either incident. Tim Vickers (talk) 21:16, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
And btw, I tell the truth. The numbers who might want to hear it are not something I can control. Sarah777 (talk) 20:57, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
And as for "Please don't attack other editors" - you think the Fozzie block on me wasn't such an attack? It was way worse than anything I could say. No discussion. No procedure. No warning. No rationale. One month block. An apology and I'd forgive even such appalling behaviour as that. But there is none forthcoming. Even two years later. Sarah777 (talk) 21:01, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
And I recall there was another commonality. Elonka was involved for the prosecution in both cases. Sarah777 (talk) 21:15, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Jeez, the lot of you have such self-esteem issues I'm surprised any of you are allowed to own sharp knives... HalfShadow 21:20, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm a bit slow HalfShadow; the lot of who? And the self-esteem issues are what? Please try and explain it in simple English as I'm not very bright. Sarah777 (talk) 21:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm overly handsome & also modest. GoodDay (talk) 21:25, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Indeed you at least half-right are G'Day! Sarah777 (talk) 21:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Giggle giggle. GoodDay (talk) 21:31, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Vk's Troubles
Howdy Sarah. Fear not, I struck'em out. GoodDay (talk) 21:22, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
That is disappointing, frankly. Sarah777 (talk) 21:24, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
A bit of persuasion from Rock nudged GD on his way. BigDunc 21:27, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
It's best that I remain 'neutral' at Vk's banning case. If VK's agrees to Civility Probation, he might avoid an indef block. There's alot of editors out there, who are sore at him. GoodDay (talk) 21:31, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Huh? How so? Sarah777 (talk) 21:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps if he agree to Civilty Probation, he won't be banned. GoodDay (talk) 21:45, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
How did Rock talk you out of a sensible position? Sarah777 (talk) 21:46, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Did you just change your sentence??!! Sarah777 (talk) 21:47, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I thought I figured out your ealier question. Why'd I change to neutral? Vk past sock-puppetry (which I had forgotten). GoodDay (talk) 21:52, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
A mere bagatelle. Victims of imperialism must resort to whatever is to hand. Sarah777 (talk) 21:56, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
(Outdent) I reckon, Wikipedia doesn't see it that way. GoodDay (talk) 21:59, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Wiki (En) is a pawn in the hands of Anglo-American Imperialism. We all know that, surely? Sarah777 (talk) 22:11, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't believe that. GoodDay (talk) 22:14, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Your incredulous? Sarah777 (talk) 22:17, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm an atheist. GoodDay (talk) 22:19, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Doubly so, I'm also a republican. GoodDay (talk) 22:23, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey 777, I hope you are clued in that less than half of this country buys any of that neocon Reagan-Bush crap and in fact many others worked through three elections to prove it. Millions here are well aware of the subterfuge and mendacity that crowd swims in, the first two Bush elections were frauds, so maybe you ought tone down the broad-brush rhetoric about Anglo-American Empires and what not. I know old habits are hard to break, but jeezus. By the way, re: User:Jesuzfreak777, are you two related? Smile. Now. Please. Sswonk (talk) 23:23, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey! Don't feel bad. Anglo-American is the dominant culture in the Anglosphere; same folk who think wiping out the Apaches or the Irish natives was all part of 'progress'. People who can recognise the Holocaust for what it was; but can't see that extermination of aboriginal cultures was exactly the same thing. We have Anglo-Americans in Ireland! - folk who downplay the physical and cultural genocide against the Irish-speaking culture. But I can't be too precious here. What I see is what I call. Sarah777 (talk) 23:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I note that Jesuzfreak777 only joined us yesterday! But I can confirm that I know him not. Though the cock has not yet crowed even once, it being near midnight. Sarah777 (talk) 23:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Savages, the word once was. And I am old enough to have lived through segregation and beyond. They can knock down John Brown and Malcolm X and King and Bobby Kennedy, but once the truth takes root, they'll lose out. And they're still trying to get it back, some of them. That's milder than genocide, no doubt, but we did have our worst war over it. The natives in Massachusetts were largely wiped out by influenza and smallpox, and not at the hands of the colonists. This state gets sullied around by the big western ones that did the major ethnic warfare thing. This is all too much to go into right now on this page, and I'm going to click "Save page" before that clock strikes. Unless there's an edit conflict. Not feeling bad, – Sswonk (talk) 23:59, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
See you soon. I noticed today they were building a bypass to the west of Mullingar. "Clonmore" road the signs said. It seemed like a 1km long viaduct over a bog, but it was dark. Sarah777 (talk) 00:31, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I read the article, then fixed a layout issue. The TOC is very long, it might be better if {{TOClimit}} were used. By the way, the red links should tell that you that shamcousin Jesuzfreak was a shooting star. Sswonk (talk) 04:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey! It don't look half bad (as you Americans no doubt say :) Sarah777 (talk) 09:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) I've changed my mind (again), at Vk's case. GoodDay (talk) 16:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Sarah, let me pick your brain. If you'd rather not give an opinion, I'm sure you'll let me know, but I'd like to read what you would recommend as a good movie to download or rent about modern Irish life. I recall The Last of the High Kings which is a teenage summer movie, Catherine O'Hara plays a zealously political mother. But she's Canadian/Chicago and a some of the main cast aren't Irish, faking accents and so on. That usually puts us Bostonians in a sarcastic mood if it's done wrong, which it usually is. Then there's Waking Ned Devine obviously exaggerated comedy and filmed on the Isle of Man. Looking for a "daily life" portrait with authentic characters and actors, if you can recommend something. I could read five hundred Wikipedia articles and synthesize my own view, to be sure, but I would trust your opinion if you have one you want to offer. Sswonk (talk) 19:54, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, there is a film I loved called The Commitments. It dates from the dawn of the Celtic Tiger and is fairly funny. It was OK on Dublin working class life circa 1990 though the landscape was slightly bleaker than the reality. But not by much! More recent films have tended to be historical rather than hysterical. But I'm sure some of the watchers here will have some recommendations! Sarah777 (talk) 20:06, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Guerillas of soul and "mustang sally", the "blacks of Europe"...I downloaded this one, they kept reminding me of Simply Red, who I saw in an 1,800 seat auditorium in 1987, same year Doyle published his novel. Seems as though SR could have inspired it somewhat, or maybe it was just serendipity. Several of the street scenes reminded me of parts of Boston, but not the occasional pictures of the Pope on the walls in the homes, don't really see that. I have no idea how I put off sitting to watch this movie until now. I'll seek out Bastun's choices, they appear to be harder to find than The Commitments. Nice pick, thanks for that. Sswonk (talk) 00:52, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Try 32A, a 2007 film. And I was just checking that was a valid link and about to mention The Commitments - or any other film adapted from Roddy Doyle too. Me and Sarah agreeing on something! That makes... um, two things, I think! The Commitments, The Snapper and The Van are all set in recession-hit Dublin when things were really bleak, but... um, yeah... plus ca change... BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 20:12, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Outstanding, thanks both, I will look into them, and any further suggestions by TPWs. Sswonk (talk) 20:19, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Yep, the Snapper/Van was pretty good too - but I liked the music in the commitments. That and the horse in the lift. Sarah777 (talk) 20:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I've just read the 32A link - and there was I thinking it referred to a bus route :) Sarah777 (talk) 20:30, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
But Sarah, it is a bus route. When I lived in Baldoyle back in the mid-1980s, I always took that bus, along with the 32 and 32B-which in point of fact, practically passed by my front door.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:19, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
The tag line on the movie posters (including the ones on the sides of Dublin buses!) is "It's not a bus number, it's a bra size" :-) BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 09:29, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Oh Bastun, please don't remind me of my traumatic adolescence when I had the smallest duckies in my class.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:44, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
"Duckies"?! They quack?! BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 18:24, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
They probably did more than that for Henry VIII, as he often used the term when writing love letters to Anne Boleyn.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
To borrow your phrase, don't feel bad, I thought it was an apartment number. Sswonk (talk) 21:22, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I love The Commitments as I was living in Dublin roughly at that time when prospects were bleak for Dublin's youth; however, as good as the actors were, they just did not convince me as being working-class. One could tell they were in reality middle-class, such as Outspan, and the Clontarf-born Maria Doyle Kennedy, who does happen to be one of my favourite actresses. She kept the farcical The Tudors afloat when the whole lot was sinking like a soap operatic Mary Rose.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:04, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
1268-2004
Jeanne B and her wonderful work!
Twilight Zone time. I notice the photograph on this page, which Sarah took, of the sign advertising a Franciscan Friary. Well, I just recently created an article on a Norman-Irish baron who had founded a Franciscan Friary in Youghal in the 13th century. Coincidence, eh?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:11, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Yep, pure coincidence...but nice work Jeanne B. I've tagged it for IrlProj. Have you any other untagged gems hidden away in the wilds of Wiki? Sarah777 (talk) 11:36, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Wow! Impressive (even though they are mostly what Rock would surely describe as "bad guys" :) You are not here just for the chit-chat!! All now tagged. Sarah777 (talk) 22:15, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Thank you, Sarah. Mor and the two Elizabeths weren't bad guys (or bad girls I should say! LOL); however, as for the rest, hmm........I couldn't imagine inviting them all to a dinner party, although GoodDay might be useful in keeping them entertained with his jokes, so's to prevent them from killing one another with table knives.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:17, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
in re your Troubles oppose
Hi Sarah, you didn't like the idea of discretionary sanctions, so I am alerting you to my post here: User_talk:Seraphimblade#Troubles. Currently the admin team is using two types of sanctions, and the result has been a lot of messy AE threads. With discretionary sanctions, the sanctions are customised to suit the situation. I'm struggling to understand how discretionary sanctions would alter the balance of Anglo-pov administration here; my guess is that you are concerned that these admins will be able to unilaterally create draconian sanctions. If we have more time and space to work through this, maybe we can find a way to ensure that doesnt happen. The "proper" approach would be to request an Amendment at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment, but if we need to improve the wording, we may as well work through it before asking Arbcom to consider and enact it. John Vandenberg(chat) 04:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok John, thanks. I'll take the unusual step of thinking this through a bit before contributing :) Sarah777 (talk) 09:44, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm just the slightest bit confused; I assume you are saying that "Request for more eyes...." is closed; though it doesn't look closed. And the obviously still open discretionary sanctions proposal by Elonka clearly should be closed as there is manifestly no consensus. So what would we be proposing to amend at Arbcom? Sarah777 (talk) 11:02, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Hoping to help with the confusion: the entire bottom section was closed for a time last night/early morning[1] but then the discretionary sanctions comments were pulled out as separate. This sort of closing has bothered me in the past, some editors might have un-watched upon seeing the original closing, but it probably won't be appreciated if I complain about the multiple changes in archive condition. Take a look at the history to see how many times it was manipulated. I think a note about what happened post-closing should have been left, the edit summaries are cryptic to my eyes. Sswonk (talk) 15:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
You and your talk page watchers will probably want to know about the above, a rehash of the AN/I thread now made into a formal request. Sswonk (talk) 05:33, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
TY Sswonk. This is a difficult area; within the Anglosphere the Irish perspective is closer to the moderate global perspective on geopolitical issues than most other parts of said Anglosphere. Some American/British/Canadian/Aussie editors miss the fact that their worldview is that of an extremist minority; representing about 5% of the world population. Considerably less than Chinese nationalists, Hindu nationalists or Islamists for example. Classic flatworld folk failing to perceive the third dimension. Sarah777 (talk) 01:39, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Flatlanders or Mitteldeutschlanders circa 1961? As to follow Herr Walter Ulbricht and protect the socialist miracle against further poisoning from the fascist west? Ah, "das ist gut, mein Freund!" Ve should feel safer and not be concerned mit zees mattahs, ja? It no doubt will be done to preserve the truth and save us from further upset feelings. Yup. – Sswonk (talk) 01:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Yep. Only walls can be so much more subtle and effective with all this new tracking and tracing technology. Today they'd probably plant tracking devices secretly into citizens suspected of straying from the one true path. Sometimes I wonder about an itch in my left ear:) Sarah777 (talk) 02:04, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Re. the itch. That'll be a 'Troubles-related' tag :-) RashersTierney (talk) 02:25, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Hoax References
Hi, I removed the following Hoax references. User:Domer48 already removed one at Roger Casement
These have already appeared on Wiki derived sites. Google and you'll see the damage.
How do we ban IPs and user involved.
22:58, 18 November 2009 Béziers (→Cultural references: remove hoax)
22:46, 18 November 2009 Acastus (→Reincarnations: deleting hoax section)
22:41, 18 November 2009 Ikkyū (→In popular culture: remove hoax reference)
22:40, 18 November 2009 Richard de Clare, 2nd Earl of Pembroke (→Legacy: remove hoax reference)
The inserted text in [Richard de Clare, 2nd Earl of Pembroke was:
During the first years of 21st century, the reclusive and supposedly mentally unsound Dr. William "Willard" Scanlon would claim to be the reincarnation of Richard de Clare, though ultimately even he himself was unsure of the claim's authenticity. However, when Dr. Scanlon was killed in a questionable sailing accident off the coast of his family estate at Ballymulderry, his widow insisted that the dates of Richard de Clare's life be engraved on the tall, black marble obelisk that marked his final resting place.<re>The Infinite Sea of My Lives, Dr. William Scanlon, University of Southern Illinois Press, 2003. Originally written in Gaelic, the translation of the memoir into the English language was the life's work of Dr. J. Paul Hendrickson, who considered himself Dr. Scanlon's one true friend.</re>
The others are similar bullshit.
Thee IP's were 141.195.28.35, 141.195.28.27, 141.195.21.58, 141.195.28.95 all whois to (Allegheny College PA) and the user was User:Jon Hart
Thanks in advance for advice. Cathar11 (talk) 20:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
If the "references" are obvious hoaxes then they are simple vandalism as is the text they 'support'. Simply remove them. If there is no established editor supporting the "references" there should be no problem with 3RR - you can always ask an Admin such as Rockpocket (I'll ask him for you) to do the removals if you are concerned about being blocked by some random cruising Admin, but if there is no history of dispute (other than vandalism) that is unlikely. Sarah777 (talk) 22:50, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks I thought there should be an admin or place where a deliberate hoax entry could be reported to. I have already deleted all text and references to it. I originally thought until I checked the IPs that it was of Irish origin,Cathar11 (talk) 23:02, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Hello, Cathar11. As Sarah notes, feel free to revert obviously nonsensical additions by IPs without fear of 3RR (especially in WP:BLPs), if there is a remote possibility the content could be genuine then follow the advice at Wikipedia:Fictitious references and Wikipedia:Hoaxes#Dealing with hoaxes. If you come across an editor who you think is propagating a complex or persistent hoax, it is probably worth bringing it up at WP:ANI and an admin will help out. In this case, I will warn the account holder and keep an eye on the IPs. We probably don't want to go down the route of permanently blocking the IPs from a college just yet. The edits were so stale that the person behind the edits are likely long gone to a new IP. But if this continues we can contact the college's IP administrator and advise them people are using their IPs abusively. If you come across any more like this in the future, please let me know. Rockpocket 02:28, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
...and placing it here...
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Please accept this award for excellence, in particular for Irish related articles.Skreen (talk) 21:05, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Sarah, you're putting the token in the wrong ~!@%!##% place! (Supposed to indicate ironic humor). The token goes on your Commons talk page, not your Wikipedia talk page. I hope that helps and you are successful. Sswonk (talk) 02:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks Sswonk - I'll give it a lash as we say hereabouts! Sarah777 (talk) 12:00, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
No sweat, whip it good. I've used it, but sparingly. Keep the password handy, though; I used a different one, forgot it one day and went loopy for fifteen minutes trying to figure it out: it can't be retrieved, and it won't let you start a new account with the same username. Regarding films, I caught the last half of Hidden Agenda earlier this morning, not the typical life I'm sure, but there were lots of scenes shot driving the streets and roads that I liked, seen it? Sswonk (talk) 14:59, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Addendum To make sure I was right that "give it a lash" meant "take a crack at it", I searched the term and came up with this quiz link[2]. You'll be pleased to know I got 14/15, missing only the question about Sarah being drunk, oddly enough. I thought it was "all", but let it go being lazy. Subsequently discovered that your frustration with TUSC had you like a blue arsed fly. Sswonk (talk) 15:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Sarah drunk?! Whoever compiled that test was a right gobs**te:) But you know we have more words for "drunk" than the Eskimos have for "snow"? Sarah777 (talk) 16:08, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
That could be the genesis of an article, Sarah. Irish terms for the state of inebriation. Go for it.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:33, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm too plastered right now :) Sarah777 (talk) 16:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Plastered is too mild. What about bo..oxed drunk for starters?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:40, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Or just plain bo..oxed would do.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:42, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
I can see you got polluted a few times while you were here! Sarah777 (talk) 16:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Pollution -> vermin .... You must be rat-arsed. --HighKing (talk) 19:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Counties of Ireland map
I visited the article Counties of Ireland and found the scheme used to link to articles by referencing the large numbers on the map to be a little distracting. Also, it appears that the lists of names and headers has been bait for edit warring. So, in the interest of usability and to improve the aesthetics I am trying a revised map I created which uses an imagemap to link the county name labels on the map directly to the articles. However, I didn't want to replace what was there without getting an opinion, especially to avoid controversy since I am not a regular Irish geography editor. You of course very much are that. Take a look at User:Sswonk/Ireland test to try the map, which is set up to replace the current "Map of traditional counties" section of the article. I believe the names are all correct but you should check them for spelling as well. Let me know if you think the sandbox page is a suitable replacement for the current section, and by all means copy it to the article if you do. I think using the image, without the separated lists on either side of the map, might help eliminate edit warring over the map. Sswonk (talk) 08:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for butting in Sarah, Sswonk, that looks great. You could use this software to generate the x-y coordiante pairs to make polygon links that wrap around the entirity of each county rather than just the name. (It's easy to use/adopt for our purposes but requires a bit of figuring out the first time. I'll drop you a line with instructions if you want.)
I would say though that even with an image map we would still need a list of links. The ususal thing that happens when a user clicks on an image on WP is that they are brought to that image file (and even on normal websites, people don't don't expect an image map). The list could be made smaller though. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 09:19, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, RA, I expected and welcome a response from someone other than Sarah, whose popularity often results in separate comments such as yours. Sarah is probably quite used to it. I in fact started by using polygons, drawn roughly using the Adobe Air app here, that is also the software which I ultimately used to draw the rectangles around the name labels. The problem I saw with polygons is that the irregular shape of some of the counties leads to a very large lists of points. I haven't tried your link but may later, I am on a Mac and only use my 5+ year-old, slow Windows machine to test pages on IE7. The Swedish software is Windows only, it might be better if you are adept at using it that you create a polygon-based image map. I was also a little concerned about the colors I chose, not sure if the green/salmon scheme for the infobox maps needed to be preserved. I for one prefer my colors, but it is easily changed.
As for the lists, I realize that the normal behavior is for the click on an image to lead to the file description page for it. That is why guidelines state to point out that the image is clickable as an imagemap in the text or caption, which I had already done. I eliminated the lists specifically to help avoid what appears to be regular back-and-forth edit reversion over the ROI/Ireland and Londonderry/Derry names in the lists. I feel that by leaving the colors to show where Northern Ireland counties are and having the map labels (equaling the article title) serve as the much less easily edited links, we can end such unproductive warring. Also, and this is another important motivation, I fell using an imagemap avoids forcing the user's eyes to move from list to map and map to list to find links. Clicking on the name in the map is much easier. I will update my sandbox to make it clearer that it is an imagemap, let me know how that looks, subject to change if polygons are used later (also, the spelling of "colored" may need to be changed to "coloured" per local variant). Sswonk (talk) 15:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Posted on User talk:Sswonk. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 18:21, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm working on making each county a clickable polygon per RA's suggestion, could take some time. I'll post an update later. Sswonk (talk) 20:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks great Sswonk. I must say I hate that counties map with the big numbers and side-list; the version you have is way better. Being polygonally challenged I cannot offer any technical advice but this looks better by far. I think I'll be WP:BOLD and add it to the article. I can't see any political issue that is made any worse so there is no reason to think this would be controversial. Of course we'll find out! Sarah777 (talk) 00:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Yep - much neater. I suppose the space now available of the right could be used for something; maybe that clutch of templates further down? Or is it better blank? Or maybe some more aesthetically pleasing version of 'the list'? Sarah777 (talk) 00:53, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I think it is definitely not better blank. I finished the template with polygons, and added some parameters: {{Counties of Ireland imagemap}}. This allows floating, I tried a version on my sandbox page User:Sswonk/Ireland test – I think it looks good with text flowing around. Sswonk (talk) 09:16, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Yep - I put it in the article. Sarah777 (talk) 09:46, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Wow. Congratulations you guys. It is so good that even an English reader can use it. Regards. Chienlit (talk) 10:20, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Great job, even clicking on Allihies works!! For my mind the image might be rather too large on the page but look, and works, well. ww2censor (talk) 13:53, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Oh come on Ww! You never really liked the Big Picture(s).....Sarah777 (talk) 20:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Q. (S777) A major concern of mine is the use/abuse of WP:CIVIL to silence editors by Admins who are often less than objective or neutral. Have you any concerns about the enforcement of WP:CIVIL?
A (S Smith) My primary concern is that enforcement is so subjective and controversial (especially when applied to vested editors) that effective enforcement is impossible below the ArbCom level, because a block intended to reduce unpleasantness by removing its source generally just creates more unpleasantness by provoking long threads at the assorted drama boards.
S-Rating: 10/10 - this man has potential. Sarah777 (talk) 10:26, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
USC
Sarah, since your hawk-like gaze has been attracted to the USC article, would you mind having a look at the recent edits? I ask you because you demonstrably don't share a pov with me and two editors there just revert everything that I write on principle.
The issue in the background section is not so much one of POV as of brevity and clarity. See what you think. The more opinions the better. Jdorney (talk) 19:52, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Off-Wikipedian shenanigans
Howdy Sarah. I'm slightly concerned about all suspected shananigans, not just Irish. GoodDay (talk) 12:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Which shenanigans would those be, GoodDay? I'm in the dark on this one.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:20, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
At ANI, a suggestion was made that editors-in-general have (in the past) communicated off Wikipedia & formed 'teams' to support each others edits & postings. In effect 'meat-puppetry'. GoodDay (talk) 12:24, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, I am certainly not guilty of that offence. Which editors are being accused?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Peek at the ANI report-in-question, for elaboration. PS: I kinda forgot the names. GoodDay (talk) 12:31, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Wait, first I must needs summon my squire to bring me my suit of armour. Montjoie! Cry God for Jeanne!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:33, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Counting...10...9...8...7...ahh!
Movement
Hi Sarah, there has finally been some movement on Elonka's amendment request at ArbCom. I nearly missed it because another request on that page had taken precedence over the past few days and none of the recent edits related to the one we have commented on. I am posting this in case you overlooked it as well. – Sswonk (talk) 20:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
So far as I can figure I can't vote on this it being the Anglo-American police giving more arbitrary power to the Anglo-American police. Sarah777 (talk) 23:04, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I assume the voting is for arbs only. It isn't like our voices would make a difference, marionettes can't tie their own shoes. (Nor can alligators, ya' know?). "Life is a cabaret, old chum, ..." Sswonk (talk) 23:19, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Clontreat
Hi, Sarah. I wonder if you have heard of or perhaps been to a place called clontreat, County Monaghan in Ireland. A relative who happens to be into geneology has found a baptismal for my great great grandfather stating their as his home town. I imagine it would be a small place, but am curious if you have ever heard of it. Cheers. Jack forbes (talk) 23:46, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Sounds like farming country to me and probably hasn't changed too much over the 150 years since he was baptised. Jack forbes (talk) 23:59, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I wrote an essay in reply to his essay advocating forcing the Anglo-American world-view on Wiki but I can't find the darn thing. Sarah777 (talk) 23:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
And this self-styled "liberal" Administrators response to my questioning his dogma?
"Poisonous bullshit, but never mind". Moreschi (talk) 23:09, 27 November 2009 (UTC) - (extract from it's page, least I be accused). Sarah777 (talk) 23:15, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
You continued actions towards Moreschi are bordering on harassment, please stop it. Chillum 23:22, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry? I debated with him and he decided to discontinue having started it by attacking me at ANI. He has refused to retract his attacks. Any words for him Chillum? His WP:INCIVILITY? Is this some Admin support group? Sarah777 (talk) 23:31, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Ahh come on, let's forgive & forget. Besides, the Canadians will eventually take over. GoodDay (talk) 23:33, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Can hardly 'forget' things happening right now, can we? Can hardly 'forgive' what continues? Sarah777 (talk) 23:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, it was just a thought. GoodDay (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The Admins circle the waggons - croppies lie down ClemMcGann (talk) 00:38, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, maybe Chillum isn't as bad as I sometimes think:) He is to Admins what that bald Italian referee is to referees! (What is the guys name??) Sarah777 (talk) 09:43, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Pierluigi Collina has always reminded me of John Du Prez, that bald trumpet player in Modern Romance. All Pierluigi needs is a flight suit and goggles to complete the picture. Oh oh oh oh, it makes me want to dance......--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:53, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
John Du Prez's article could do with a tone-up. It's a bit Serie C as it stands. Not Pierluigi class. Go for it Jeanne! Sarah777 (talk) 10:01, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
For starters, it needs an image!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:02, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
It do. I clicked to see if Prez had the same cool but mischievous Collina look and ....nowt. Are they pirahnas swimming behind the wee shark? Sarah777 (talk) 10:09, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Check out Du Prez on YouTube with Modern Romance performing Best Years of Our Lives on TOTP in 1982. Hilarious. I did what I could to his article. It needs a lot of refs.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:13, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
P.S., I confess to having owned a hot pink ra-ra skirt in 1982! My mother bought it for me in London. Oh, I felt so trendy wearing it (with gold court shoes and anklet socks over tights). ("Shame, and eternal shame, nothing but shame"- Charles d'Albret, 25 October 1415)--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:22, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Bald? I think you would be surprised at just how much hair I have, I am almost more hair than meat. Chillum 14:45, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I got there by linking to an attack on me by a certain editor. I always respond to attacks. Politely of course. Sarah777 (talk) 21:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
And of course I know that there are so many editors following my every move that nothing that may some day be used against me will ever be missed :) Sarah777 (talk) 21:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Hehehe, I've got you on my radar-screen. GoodDay (talk) 21:38, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Nipping trouble in the bud....
Let's start small. I've put a proposal on in-article use. After that we can move onto article titles, categories and lists. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 20:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Where? - got a link - ta. My fear is that before we sort anything out Angr will cause mayham if he is going to challange and edit-war over the current standard practice on literally thousands of articles. We should certainly put a block on that until we sort things out. Sarah777 (talk) 20:38, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Anseo. Is there not a freeze (either by consensus or ArbCom) on edits/moves affecting the names of Irish state until things get sorted?
I've said it a couple of times, whatever about the names of the two main articles, I think there's more consensus WTR in articles use, other article titles and category names ... but the process has just ran out of gas since the vote. Get the ball moving and I think that list would wind up at List of towns and villages in Ireland (either referring to the whole island or the state) without need for piping. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 21:59, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I thought there was a freeze - certainly I've been observing one! That's why I was a bit surprised by Angr's rather bolshie revert and comment. Re the other - there is a separate list for NI - though nobody seems to populate or use it. I was going to get around to it some day, but there is several years work sorting and updating the 26 county list. Sarah777 (talk) 22:03, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure there is a freeze. Really busy today - edited the article without fully checking the history. I edited the lead sentence, though, which was linking to "in County Waterford, Ireland." which apparently wasn't the problem? But yeah - no changes till everything's agreed is supposed to be the deal. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 23:47, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I think "List of towns and villages in Ireland" which is divided into NI and RoI would be a simple solution...or am I merely being simple? Lol! on the "County Waterford, Ireland" thingy. Even I change those to comply with policy - while holding my nose! Sarah777 (talk) 23:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Meh
Trainee Sysop: just say "Meh"
Hi, Sarah777, I am a seventeen-year old steward sysop who somtimes has to say "meh". It doesn't mean I am showing a lack of respect or a dismissive attitude, I am certainly able to deny that at will so stop thinking it. People think I learned it by typing on chat rooms and message boards since I got out of diapers in 1994, but actually it is a personal tic: I received some stern words from my father for saying "milk, mummy" a lot well into my teens, until finally he cracked and hit me with a Big Bertha iron he was cleaning. He's in prison now but I still find myself involuntarily uttering meh from time to time, my friends don't seem to mind. At any rate, I'm just putting you on notice that I will block you the moment you make any statement I feel is related to things my friends who voted for my RFA want me to consider part of any subject they deserve control over. After all, community consensus over the wisdom I possess was so strong, I am able to deny completely that it was gathered via off-wiki chat rooms and gaming site mailing lists without batting an eye: they will rally to support me. I have other powers, maybe one day I'll wrap them in a bow and put them in a sock for you if you claim anyone I know has done anything you don't agree with. I'll use the English of a well-read tenured professor at a major institute of higher learning, peppered with little blue-linked acronyms that you have no business arguing with the bias of or interpretation of. A stray meh or two might slip in, you really need to learn how to deal with that but fast! Having several thousand edits and working for months to improve articles about topics with which you are most familiar simply has no bearing on my ability to wisely sanction the Pedro out of you if I am so inclined. It is for the benefit of the project that you blindly accept my wisdom and keep quiet. Cheers! LazyassALLIGATOR (sysop, abusefilter, steward, demigod, meh, prince, 733tspeakmaster, weightlifter, linuxguru, meh, ilovemummy) ++Previous meant as humorous content for the enjoyment of Sarah and TPWs and not to be construed in any way as a personal attack on anyone living in that world.++ Sswonk (talk) 00:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Lazyass, I know some 16 year old Arbs so don't be dissin' us kiddies. Wiki is about policies and about what the MSM (owned by Western millionaires) choose to publish, facts don't count. Daddy Himself has decreed that. But his selfless acolytes adore the power He has vested in them. After all - they generally weren't exactly the popular kids - and even geeks deserve some gratification, some sense of power. Aaagh! Can't you just feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllll it? Meh? Eh? AnalRetentWOMBAT (sysop, arbcom, power obsessed)
Royal Canal in County Westmeath, not in a Dublin housing estate
Really guys, I must ask you to discontinue this ranting and raving at the Admin Community. (Albeit fully justified). Please. Sarah777 (talk) 20:32, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
In fact if you feel you must continue this I suggest you take it to Fozzie's page. He will know how to deal with you. Sarah777 (talk) 20:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
The MSM, Wiki's Gospel
This photo I took. On Commons I have clearly written "the Royal Canal in rural County Westmeath north of Kinnegad". Yesterday it appeared in the Property section of the Sunday Tribune in a piece of bumf for houses in Dublin 15 stating it was the "Royal Canal in D15". This paper prides on the 'moral high ground' it occupies. Sarah777 (talk) 21:44, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, it's Public Domain - so they're allowed use it. But a feckin' cheek to completely change the location! BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 23:52, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I guess it isn't easy selling one-bed apartments on the Northside these days! Sarah777 (talk) 23:59, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I was at an international scientific meeting earlier this year and a professor gave a talk using slide that contained an image I uploaded to Wikipedia under Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike 3.0, which meant she should have attributed it (but didn't). At least she didn't misrepresent the subject, though. Rockpocket 01:25, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
The non-attribution doesn't bother me a bit. I like to see my pics popping up all over the place! - when we select "public domain no restrictions" we no longer have a say. It was the sheer propertysupplementedness of it got me. Y'know they go "unlike most developments hyped in the media, Beech Park Heights is a rare example of...(insert hype)"; and who hypes all the other stuff? - yes - the same "reliable sources" in the MSM to whom Wiki grants such exceptional credibility. Bah. Sarah777 (talk) 00:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Images of my cat Tony appear everywhere, but I do receive credit, and he really cannot be mispresented, unless they classify him as a demon. LOL.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Sarah, you have to accept that our standards of verifiability and reliable sources, imperfect as they are, are better than a lot of more "reputable" organizations in the "real world" (don't know if estate agents would qualify under either category though). It's really cool actually. You should maybe consider giving them a call and seeking a small compensation for any potential damage to your good name, as I don't think the CC license gives them the right to misrepresent your work. Though of course, IANAL. If you do get a few bob out of them, be sure to have a Guinness for me. Cheers, --John (talk) 07:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
John, I didn't really give a fiddlers about what they did with my snapshot! As I said I get a kick outta seeing them pop up around the place:) I was being WP:POINTY - without the disruption I hope. You are of course correct about Wiki v. the commercial meeja; a point I have passionately made in RL to media pals (hiya D, M, O and gang) who denigrate Wiki on the basis of unreliability. My beef is with Wiki giving such weight to their scribbling, their unedited plonking of PA/Reuters/Pentagon handouts and so forth. Of course that is a side-effect, in part, of the WP:OR rule which is necessitated by the "anyone can edit" concept. I definitely think we should work harder at not giving undue weight to the worldview of the paid hirelings of corporate billionaires. But as they reflect the "Anglo-consensus" in our cultural neck-of-the-woods too many editors are more than happy when Wiki reflects that worldview. Sarah777 (talk) 02:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Great stuff Jeanne. They could both be "C" but I didn't wish to be seen to be biased - or Ww might get cross:). I was tempted to tag Maud with "photo requested" but I see she expired in 1273! Sarah777 (talk) 02:48, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Those Normans really did live hard and die young! Maud was a granddaughter of a grandchild of Strongbow who invaded Ireland just 70 years earlier. She was married three times and died at 30. And the family history of Maurice FitzGeralds and Gerard FitzMaurices coupling like bunnies on viagra! Bit incestuous by the sound of it - no wonder the Normans were so small! Sarah777 (talk) 03:03, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Small? The Plantagenet kings were giants! Henry VIII got his 6'2 height (and temper!) from his Plantagent grandfather Edward IV of England. But I agree with you that they did live hard, and the FitzGeralds did couple like rabbits-and started out at puberty as well! Real hornballs so they were. Thank you ever so much for tagging the articles. Cheers.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
BTW, I'm on an article-creating strike. I shall not be writing any more articles at the moment. See my talk page for the reason why.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:07, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
So who wore those 5 foot nothin' suits of amour we see in Norman towers like Bunratty? Eh? Sarah777 (talk) 22:41, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I've seen those teeny weeny Norman suits of armour. There's no way they would have won all those battles if the locals had protected their ankles. Jack forbes (talk) 23:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
That's why submitting Gaelic Chieftains had to kneel down to be knighted! Sarah777 (talk) 23:43, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
What about that giant Norman Crusader in St. Michan's? You are correct in saying that the average man was quite small, however the Plantagenets were especially tall, which was likely why kings such as Henry VIII were so intimidating.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Feeding
Sarah777 do yeh see what I mean now? If you ignore the personalisation nonsense, don't respond to it you don't provide them with the opportunity of a response you close them down. Don't feed into it that is what they want. Cite WP:TPG or WP:NPA or something but then ignore. Any post that contains any comment which you considered baiting, not directed towards improving the article or just having a pop at an editor just post a stock answer and then ignore. It will put a stop to the ones that want the talk page to be battlefields or social networking forums. Lets come up with some stock answer that we can all use and we remove personal attacks, incivility, trolling etc. Get an unbiased admin (with a set of balls/ovaries) on board and we remove the WP:BATTLEFIELD. Lets face it Sarah, if they have a problem they have a whole host of venues to raise them, such as ANI, RfC, RSN, NORN, ArbCom etc etc. Let them go there with there little theories and accusations in stead of using the talk pages as a soapbox. If we use our talk pages to discuss their comments we force them away from the article and into a venue were we can tell them were to go if they have a problem. If they ignore the advice, tell them to put up or shut the fuck up. What do yeh reckon? --Domer48'fenian' 00:04, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I reckon you're just back from the pub! Seriously though, there is no point in handing them a loaded gun by effin' and blindin' and responding to provocation with ditto. (Enjoyable as some of us might find robust exchanges :) Personally, personal attacks don't much phase me, but per Wiki-culture we must be both WP:CIVIL and feign fainting fits and call for salts when incivility is directed our way, when one is a victim of ungentlemanly remarks! Otherwise they screw you. Metaphorically speaking. Sarah777 (talk) 02:32, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Yep, go with the flow man or you get the s..te kicked outta ya here. Foul language at Wikipedia?! Oh my God, I never thought I'd live to see the day. Doris Day, where are you? LOL.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:23, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Sarah, do you honestly think personal attacks from them bother me in the slightest? When I draw attention to it, it is just to show up admins who ignore it on the one hand but block us with the other. You know as well as the rest of us that they can't get us on policy violations because we edit according to policy, so they get at us through their vague selective interpretations of civil and disruptive. They refuse to respond to a reasonable question, so you ask again, your accused of being disruptive, you say that's nonsense, then they say well now your just being uncivil. Know what I mean? Thing is though, they just want to stop us editing, plain and simple. All I'm suggesting is we get them off the article talk pages and onto our own talk pages. --Domer48'fenian' 18:24, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Onto our own pages? I'd prefer their own. But I never mind drawing abuse from them on talk pages tbh; I merely strive not to be abusive in return. Eventually the occaisional Admin gets shamed into action. Of course they'd like us banned forever. And I wonder about the real agenda of some self-declared "moderate neutrals" when they support fascist measures against policy-driven editors such as yourself. Remember the vote on the name of the Free State (I'm not sure if you were on the side of righteousness - can't recall), but it was a fact that a huge majority of editors who actually lived in the sovereign country of Ireland where against RoI and a huge majority of British editors supported the option. Proving that fact is, ultimately, more important that having the correct title of the article. And note the almost panicked hysterical reaction to my wee spreadsheet?! Sarah777 (talk) 02:23, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
By my NPOV judgment (and let's be honest, it's by far the most clinical hereabouts :), these are much better references than the rag-sheet alternatives being suggested here! Sarah777 (talk) 02:39, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
In fact Domer, I'd award you yet another Barnstar 'cept I'm afraid I'd embarrass you. Sarah777 (talk) 02:44, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
But I can probably formulate a barnstarian citation that would capture that sentiment. Are you sure? Sarah777 (talk) 02:56, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Something on the anti-fascist line perhaps? --Domer48'fenian' 13:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll see what I can cook up :)Sarah777 (talk) 15:03, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
You just have to laugh
Have you seen this you really just have to laugh, they must live in an Ealing comedy, "Jeeves, I'd be blowed" :) And they go running to ANI "with pleasure" when they are on the end of it.BigDunc 16:31, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I've always said Popeye & Olive were kinky. He was always saying "Well blows me down". GoodDay (talk) 16:57, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I can't figure what Moreschi's comment was -it was not he who used the b-word! Why is the section called "Moreschi's comment"? (And Dunc, I'd worry about you if that's where you go to do your light reading :) Sarah777 (talk) 02:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
This was Moreschi's comment. It is funny how NPA is very much in the eye of the beholder. Rockpocket 05:11, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm sure there is some context here that I'm missing. Sarah777 (talk) 09:27, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
During a board game, I was once compelled to shout from the open window: "Thar she blows"!!!! Now when one is living below an active volcano the word blow takes on an entirely different connotation to the popular slang term for the intense application of lip suctioning on the male sex organ.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Dunmanway
Clarify please. What's being requested there, a move to 'Dunmanway massacre' or 'Dunmanway murders'? GoodDay (talk) 23:59, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I thought it was a proposal to move back to Dunmanway massacre. I'm opposed to moving it to Dunmanway murders. GoodDay (talk) 00:08, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
G'Day; it is a proposal to move it to "murders" as a 'compromise' between "Massacre" and "killings". Sarah777 (talk) 02:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I see. GoodDay (talk) 02:25, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Without meaning to seem critical, I wish you'd check what the question is before you post your answer! Sarah777 (talk) 02:41, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
It was late & I was under the influence of sleep. GoodDay (talk) 15:12, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Of too many sleeps :) ? Sarah777 (talk) 02:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Teetotaler sleep. GoodDay (talk) 18:20, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Article strike
A while back an editor nominated one of the articles I had created for AfD and it was deleted. The other day, he nominated someone else's article for deletion, and I saw where he had written that two others should also be removed from Wikipedia, and those two just happen to be articles I wrote over a year ago. This editor has less than 3,000 edits (in over 3 years), and his main contributions at Wikipedia seem to consist of removing people's text, moving articles, without cleaning up after himself, and nominating articles for deletion, whilst constantly citing Wikipedia policy. This is merely a cat o' nine tails whip to browbeat others into following his own POV as to which articles should be included here. Hence my refusal to spend hours, indeed days, working on articles only to have them rubbished and later deleted without a trace. Enogh is enough, Sarah, and here I draw the line. If Wikipedia wishes editors to spend their precious time uploading articles, then it needs to change its deletions policy. I would propose that an editor needs to be granted special rights in order to nominate an article for deletion; he/she must have a history of at least 10,000 edits; which need to consist of contributions, not merely article moves and removal of text. As GoodDay suggested, once an article is nominated for deletion, there should be a 2/3 majority, and I would add that in the case of a tie, it should automatically default to keep. The majority of editors who are defecting from Wikipedia are doing so beause of the free hand given to the deletionists as well as POV pushers. I ain't goin' nowhwere, man, but for the moment I won't be creating any new articles. I'm sick of having Damocle's swords hanging over my articles, due to the personal dislikes of one editor.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:07, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Wow, how did you find that? I felt Max Lazer merited an article, but I really didn't spend that much time on it, unlike the two articles that have been threatened (but not yet nominated) with deletion.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:07, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Jeanne, I understand your frustration. But, I have to strongly disagree with the edit counter method of determining eligibility to nominate, and then a numerical majority needed to delete. First, with automated tools such as WP:AWB allowing editors to quickly build edit counts, and the work habits of some editors seeing them perform fifteen tweaks on a passage in five minutes when one well-thought out edit using preview to perfect it would have sufficed, raw edit counts are a very poor method of determining the quality of contributions. The same can be said for vote counting, which could be much more easily abused than the current "method" of weighing the value of each comment. I tend to work on complicated article or template edits by using sandbox pages and the preview button. Viewing your contributions, it appears you tend to spend some time tweaking with live edits and as a result build up your counts more quickly than me. Neither method is wrong, and your contributions are certainly of a very high quality. Nevertheless, there are many editors with fewer than even 1,000 edits who have better judgment and perception than some of the kids I see who use AWB and drive-by tagging to surpass my monthly edit count in five days. Stick to it, you obviously are one of the ones with beneficial judgment. Making noise about the issue is important as well. I couldn't find a free image to illustrate my point about edit counts, but thought if you saw this it might help you to realize what I am grousing about re: a 10,000 count threshold. Sswonk (talk) 14:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd certainly pay some heed to the nature of the edit record. We have Admins, deletionists etc with a handful of edits in article space but huge piles of blocks, talk. etc etc. And I thought it was possible to exclude bot edits from a count? You must remember the rush that POWER over ordinary editors and banning, blocking and bossing gives to some folk who become Admins. The edit-count is only part of the picture but still definitely part of the picture; I'd agree with say a 10,000 non-bot article space edit record as a minimum requirement for Adminship. Even if you write your articles and save every word individually it will take some to get to 10k without a bot! Sarah777 (talk) 02:42, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Trust me ladies, a 10,000 edit threshold is a bad idea, not because it forces editors who seek deletion powers to work for it, but because it doesn't actually measure the quality of contributions or the wisdom of the contributor. Some will simply spend time making as many tiny edits as possible per day to get to the threshold. I have submitted dozens of maps and photographs (Sarah knows photos take effort) to Commons, many of which took portions of a day to compose, retouch, complete and submit, with all map edits completely offline. For these I received exactly either one or zero "edit credits", depending on whether the work was added piecemeal or en masse to a list, or was an update of a previous map, etc. Yet, someone who holds raw edit counts as a measure of significance and quality of contributions might decide to create a list of cricket players in Fiji and add them one edit at a time, eighty times, in the space of an hour and get 80 clicks for the result. Maybe counting edits that introduce a fully reliable source to the encyclopedia might work, but it isn't convenient to count such things as far as I know. OK, Sarah, yes it is part of the picture but unfortunately introduces a quantitative result into what I feel should be a qualitative measure, that being the fitness of the person to determine what amounts to encyclopedic content. Kept article creation and introduction of individual reliable sources would be a much better indicator of that fitness in my view. Sswonk (talk) 16:25, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
And by the way - I had over 100 articles (nothing to to with "nationalism" or "the troubles") deleted in a single swoop; without any Afds, got blocked by SirFozzie without warning for restoring 20 of them; and then spent 3 weeks blocked while Elonka and others unknown argued that I be banned for life. And now they'd like me to pretend the system works! If it did every Admin who had anything to do with that show-trial would have resigned or been removed years ago. Sarah777 (talk) 02:42, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I think I should point out that the editor I was referring to is neither an administrator nor an editor with any special user rights such as rollback, auto-review, etc. Yet, he feels that he's got the power.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:02, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Why were 100 of your articles deleted at once? That is definitely over the top-and an outrage!!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:07, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Not really, the actual process was rather mundane. The content was simply consolidated. Instead of having ~100 one line articles, they were merged and redirected into one ~100 line article (600 in Ireland through 700 in Ireland were all merged to 7th century in Ireland). Rockpocket 08:49, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
The articles were deleted; without any Afds. And there was no further "merger" for years other than the century I was working on. And nothing has been added since as the tiny number of editors developing the series abandoned the project and were not replaced. Great win for Wiki, eh? But the silence of the grave is better on Wiki than editors you'd rather annoy working away? I'm sure there is a Wiki-rule in support of that too. Sarah777 (talk) 09:18, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Sarah is right. Rockpocket, Wikipedia needs to change the current deletions policy. Editors need to be granted special rights in order to nominate an article for deletion, same as rollbackers, etc. At the moment any Tom, Dick or Mary can nominate an article for deletion on the basis of their own interpretation of notability and their clever manipulation at AfD to get their own way, so's another editor's countless hours of work is undone, and the nominating editor goes snickering off to impale other articles like a 21st century cyber Vlad Tepes. I am often hesitant to challenge other editors for fear that they'll retaliate by nominating an article I created for deletion.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:35, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Heir to the Irish throne
The legitimate heir to the kingdom of Leinster
Sarah, did I ever tell you that when I lived in Dublin, my best friend was the heir to the kingdom of Leinster?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:34, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Dodgy Sysop, Detective of....
Is there some connection here with Moreschi's remark?! (There is a trick you can do with bottled Guinness that has an interesting affect). Sarah777 (talk) 14:04, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Now do I look like the sort of woman who kisses and tells?! Especially when it involves the heir to the Irish throne.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:52, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
The heir to the kingdom of Leinster looks like he's playing pocket billiards in that pic. Irvine22 (talk) 21:44, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Ha ha haaaa. GoodDay (talk) 22:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Looks like he's enjoying it and all. Irvine22 (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Another sysop caught on camera...
Hey guys, I took that photo. Are you accusing me of shooting porn pics?! Shame on you all.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:22, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Besides, why would he need to play pocket billiards when I was there to give him a wee helping hand?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:54, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Avoca
Hi! Many thanks for the Avoca photos. They are now included in my video of the Meeting of the Waters song
Hope you like it The Meeting of the Waters
Kind regards, David Dwsolo (talk) 21:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Very nice indeed - I've always wished I could sing! Sarah777 (talk) 00:17, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Good work Sarah, I checked out your gallery[5], you are an artist. Very nice. Sswonk (talk) 14:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Round about here they'd call me a piss-artist! (Can I say that without being terminated?) Sarah777 (talk) 20:16, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I should think your job is safe. I found multiple definitions for that term, one was "politician"; if you were one and claimed to be a piss-artist, chances are you would have an office for life. On the other hand, another meaning was "one who can't control their penis"; you appear to have nipped that problem in the bud while still in the womb. (Wonder what David, the OP here, must think of us at this point...) Seriously, you have a talent for the water shots (ha!), and the roads pictures, which can be very problematic, are well done. I kept looking at File:Newtownforbes4005.jpg (two years ago tomorrow), remarkable. I took a couple today, see the article Furnace Brook Parkway which I recently greatly expanded with another editor. Sswonk (talk) 21:30, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
My God! You have the YELLOW lines in the MIDDLE of the road! That must confuse your drivers????? Sarah777 (talk) 21:49, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
In the US, a yellow center line indicates that traffic on each side of the line is moving in the opposite direction. White lines indicate travel in the same direction, and are usually dashed. The right (left for you) line showing the roadway edge is always solid white, see road surface marking (there is also a thing called cat's eye, mentioned on that page). All but the more rural roads have markings following this color scheme. I don't know about Canada, but I have heard that one traffic control system used in Mexico is to place a huge mound in the middle of a road as it enters a town area, so drivers have the choice of either stopping and negotiating it or crashing headlong into it. Why would it be confusing, do yellow lines mean something else there or is that another piss joke? Sswonk (talk) 22:41, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
A what joke?! In Ireland yellow lines mark the edge of the road or a hard shoulder. Mainly broken lines but solid yellow on the hard shoulder of a motorway. Yellow hatching is used to mark out "keep clear" boxes at junctions and solid yellow lines against a kerb indicate parking restrictions. Basically, don't park outside (or on) a yellow line. Sarah777 (talk) 00:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Now that I look at it I see someone has tidied up the photo-chaos on the Dublin article. Good. But this article still lacks some element of style or something...dunno...any FA specialists out there could organise some improvements? Sarah777 (talk) 20:24, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Sswonk - that really you teasing the little guy? Oddly, I had figured you as a 20 year old! Sarah777 (talk) 20:26, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I live in a spectrum of ages. BTW, I think Chillum probably resembles the Picture of the Day above (Shoki2 detail.jpg) more than he does the football judge, if he is watching he can confirm. You I had for anywhere from 18 to my age. I simply quit caring after you told Elonka you thought she was cute, that reminded me of something George Harrison would have said and placed you in the realm of timelessness in my book. Sswonk (talk) 21:38, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, according to The Chill himself he must be more Zhong Kui than Pier-Luigi Collina! Did I say that about Elonka????????? Sarah777 (talk) 21:57, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
As it turns out[6], no but it would have been funnier if you did. John was the poster who called you "intelligent" and at the time when I read it I somehow thought it was Elonka who had said that, to which I thought you smartly replied "OK, I think you're cute." Still, some of the things you write are more outrageously funny than anything on television, which is why I stay tuned. You must be relieved to know you didn't accidentally flirt with her, at least. Sswonk (talk) 22:57, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
In this case I think the long spoon approach is best. I think Elonka is out to tame the wild Irish beasts! Or failing that, shoot them :) Sarah777 (talk) 08:32, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
The Little Guy
Isn't anyone else concerned about Sswonk teasing this wee creature? Really? Sarah777 (talk) 01:00, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
(ec) Thinking up a response, back in a moment. Sswonk (talk) 01:08, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I still haven't blinked yet. GoodDay (talk) 01:01, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Is there a suitable warning template? Jack forbes (talk) 01:04, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
"Don't feed the crocks" ???? Sarah777 (talk) 01:06, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Wait a few minutes, I am finding and then posting a companion photo of the "little guy's" behemoth cousins in the swamp nearby, many of whom are older than every one of us! Sswonk (talk) 01:14, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Posted. Not teasing him, the poor kid had electrical tape around his snout (look closely), I was lifting his spirits. Sswonk (talk) 01:24, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
(ec) BTW, go to the photo file description and click the coordinates, then find the Bing birds eye view and swing it around to see them all lazing in the swamp, looking like logs from the sky. Sswonk (talk) 01:28, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Not to sound like a gushing tourist, especially since I spent four years of my youth living in Florida, but the largest male in the photo, mid-left by the fence under the "Crocodile Flats" sign, is about 4 meters, I know because I walked over there and took his photo as well. It is a very cool place, kind of kitschy and informal, you drive down a dirt road past a county prison through the swamp on a narrow lane to get there, but the gators, crocs and airboat ride come highly recommended for any visit to South Florida. Sswonk (talk) 01:46, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I have a close relative living in Florida, place called Venice. Never been there but I've heard a lot of alligator tales - they appear in people's swimming pools etc. And occaisionally eat someone. I'm not sure why Elonka springs to mind at this point....anyway, there appears to be a lot of Alligator Urban Legends so I'm not sure which tales to believe and which to discount. Sarah777 (talk) 09:37, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
The sewer alligator myths are just that, I don't know about others. I do know that living in Fort Pierce as a 9 year old I was at a park when a small one appeared as I walked around a bend on a forested path, sunning near a bench. They are very common but mostly you see them and they are fat and happy and have no need to want to eat you. For those folks crazy enough to swim in swamps, there may be a different ending. From Fort Pierce to Venice is the rough equivalent of the distance from Dublin to across the Fergus from Shannon, about 150 miles (240 km). You should gather your duckies and make the trip over to visit your relative, there is so much to see. Thankfully I lived in the state for four years and have been there a few times since, and have still managed to avoid Disneyworld. Nature and history are so much better than plastic mice and cartoon princesses. Sswonk (talk) 15:48, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Henry VIII called Anne Boleyn's breasts duckies in all his steaming love letters to her.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:51, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Jeanne - I was aware of the meaning if not the exact coinage, so to speak. I did blink when Sswonk offered me that advice! Sarah777 (talk) 21:51, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
It's a thing I picked up from a former in-law (divorce victim) from Scottish-American stock from piedmont North Carolina. The word meant money when he used it, and is almost certainly from ducat based on what I know, WP:OR be damned. My now acquaintance-only was rather notorious and colorful, possibly descended from pirates associated with Edward Teach, who's ship was Queen Anne's Revenge, thereby making a coincidental connection to Jeanne's usage, although by a different Anne. I think, Jeanne, you may want to lay off the oysters, nearly every word you think these days is repurposed to a sexual metaphor. Amusing, yes. Over the top? Well, latch on to that question with a sex quip and I'd have to say yes definitely. Sswonk (talk) 01:10, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Don't tempt her! Sarah777 (talk) 01:15, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I'm all talk and no action (as the guys at my high school contemptuously described me while writing me off as a potential target for their rampant teenaged lust).--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:29, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Eli's coming, hide your heart, girl
That photo of Eli Roth reminds me of the 1969 song by Three Dog Night, Eli's Coming. "Eli's coming, better hide you heart, girl......"--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:49, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
...aagh, not Three Dog Night....... listen to the Laura Nyro original, please, show some taste..... Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:47, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll second that! The Laura Nyro version's the one you want! Grutness...wha? 22:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, Nyro did write some great songs. Besides Eli's Coming, she also penned the two wonderful Fifth Dimension classics Stoned Soul Picnic and Wedding Bell Blues. I confess that I also prefer the Three Dog Night version of Leo Sayer's Let the Show Go On, complete with circus music and all. As Bob Hoskins said in Mona Lisa, "Alright, so I'm cheap".--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Click the signpost in front of the village hall[1]
Even more trainee Sysops....
Finally uploaded my snaps from the past six weeks, including Halloween, and guess what? There I found I'd caught another Sysop on camera! But fear not - the Systemic Bias Slayer was on hand....
"Here's looking at you, kid", no reason to waste 983 more words. You are the antichillum. Sswonk (talk) 05:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Now you've gone and ruined the illusion, Sarah. I was convinced you were actually a 50yr old man, instead you simply have a 50yr old man's hat. Suits you, though. Rockpocket 06:47, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually, RP, you were thinking of me though I have a few months to go before Five-0. Sswonk, handling the situation. However, keep in mind that Sarah was in costume, s/he still could in fact be a fifty year old man. Sswonk (talk) 13:48, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
ALT caption for both: "Wresting control from the diminutive[7] Jimmy Wales." In reality, shoot me before I ever seek control of an ever-changing collection of Serbian partisans, racist rednecks, pompous English schoolboys, anti-Microsoft fanatics and the occasional code cracking Midwesterner. I would opt for a "ceremonial role" myself, Jimbo knows what's best for mental health. "Doctor Jimmy and mister Jim / When I'm pilled you don't notice him / He only comes out when I drink my gin."Sswonk (talk) 15:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a bunch Rock - as for the hat y'know we dress up for Halloween. Sswonk, I must slap your wrist on the Serbian partisans. You place them in some bad company. Sarah777 (talk) 20:13, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I visualize all internet persons as 50yr old men. As a rule of thumb, the more sexually provocative the persona someone adopts, the more likely they match that demographic. But now you have revealed yourself (so to speak), henceforth, I'll visualize you as Sarah Holmes. Rockpocket 22:29, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Ahem! Rockpocket, are you implying that all 50 year old men are sexually provocative? Jack forbes (talk) 22:38, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Bloody heck Rock! Can you point me to where my persona was "sexually provocative"? Ffs. Excuse the language. Sarah777 (talk) 22:35, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Not a a smokin' teen cheerleader
Ah, sorry Sarah. That sentence was a bit of a non sequitur. The sentence prior was related to you (explaining that I visualize everyone that way), the sentence following was not in reference to you in anyway. I wasn't trying to imply your persona was sexually provocative. Not at all. And no, Jack, I hold nothing against 50yr old men (unless they ask me very nicely). I was only trying to note that sexually provocative people on the net are unlikely to be who they represent themselves as. You may think you are chatting to a smokin' teen cheerleader, but it is actually this man on the other end of the keyboard.Rockpocket 22:54, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Hmmmmm. Must say Mr Roth looks pretty fresh for a man of fifty! Sarah777 (talk) 23:03, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Probably because for years he pretended to be a teenage girl. Just to make things clear, I am an almost 50 year old geezer and not a teenage cheerleader. Just thought I'd clear that up in case anyone thought otherwise. Now, where's my pom pons. Jack forbes (talk) 23:10, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd have thought Jeanne was tilting that way (this isn't a criticism Jeanne); but as she has all but posted her address here she doesn't fit your assumption either. (Or else s/he is taking extraordinary liberties with someone else's collection of photos spanning 30 years)! Sarah777 (talk) 22:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
You'd be amazed at the lengths people have gone to perpetuate that sort of hoax (not to suggest Jeanne is doing that, of course). I'm aware of at least 4 cases on Wikipedia where people have used multiple photos of others to substantiate a fake persona (all male > female). One poor chap found a photo of his fiancée on the user page of someone who was busy flirting with all and sundry. Turns out it wasn't her, but someone had stolen her identity and used it for their Wikipedia profile! Rockpocket 23:18, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
One poor chap found a photo of his fiancée on the user page of someone who was busy flirting with all and sundry. - Lol! Sarah777 (talk) 23:32, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Sarah, I've worked alongside women for much of my working life and the banter can be very close to the knuckle. One thing we had in common was the knowledge that it was all said in jest. Jack forbes (talk) 22:45, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
As I told Sswonk I'm working on that "smile" thingy :) Sarah777 (talk) 22:51, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Don't smile all the time, people will think your a little strange. :) Jack forbes (talk) 22:56, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
And it gives you wrinkles! Sarah777 (talk) 23:05, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Alternate caption 2 for your Halloween photo: Agent provocateur? As for me, I thought you looked a little wary, and possibly somewhat disappointed with something or one. That is perfectly fine, I was just remarking that there wasn't even a hint of smile. Well, if you're not expected to be taken seriously, as we've recently read some people think that, the photo of you is what I said it was: honest. Sswonk (talk) 23:18, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Nobody would believe I looked like Groucho Marx, but likely believed I looked more like Palpatine; therefore I had them transferred to my 'new page'. GoodDay (talk) 23:26, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Rock, I can always scan my birth cert if there's any doubt as to my female identity. As for my address, if you look at the photos I took of Mount Etna from my balcony, one can probably determine my exact location.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:13, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
File:Jeanne 1966.jpgI solemnly swear that I, Jeanne Boleyn, am the girl in this photo taken in June 1966 near Venice, CaliforniaThe same wee girl more than 40 years down the road
No need, Jeanne. If you were not the lady in the many photographs taken over decades, it would be the hoax to end all hoaxes. I think its fair to assume no-one doubts the veracity of your identity. Rockpocket 08:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Rockpocket. I've a great many faults, but dishonesty is not one of them.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:00, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Hey! Small world - you are from Venice, California?? And myself and Sswonky been chattin' 'bout Venice, Florida. Ever been bitten by a 'gator? Sarah777 (talk) 21:57, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Gators no, hornball surfers yes. BTW, Venice Ca doesn't have 'gators, just hornball surfers.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:50, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Thats just is the road from me. I was in Venice (CA) last week. That place never changes. Rockpocket 07:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
no reason to waste 983 more words. You are the antichillum. Sswonk (talk) 05:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
