User talk:Sarahdanette

September 2023[edit]

Hello, I'm Adakiko. I noticed that in this edit to Miss Montana, you removed content without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry, the removed content has been restored. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Adakiko (talk) 18:15, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am the executive director for Miss Montana. I wanted to remove this content. It was in error or outdated. Sarahdanette (talk) 18:45, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

One last thing, Miss Montana is a federally licensed 501c3 nonprofit organization. No one (me included) collects anything for income. We are a completely volunteer run organization. I will be filing a tax return with the IRS in January and the state of Montana. We are a 100% volunteer run group of people. Nobody gets anything for running this group.

My competitors are the Miss Montana USA and Miss Montana Teen USA They are a 10for 0% for profig company. They have posted things and fundraisers for months and nothing has on their end was ever flagged. Why is that? Sarahdanette (talk) 12:14, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome![edit]

Hello, Sarahdanette, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article. Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

To reduce the chances of your contributions being undone, you might like to draft your revised article before submission, and then ask me or another editor to proofread it. See our help page on userspace drafts for more details. If the page you created has already been deleted from Wikipedia, but you want to save the content from it to use for that draft, don't hesitate to ask anyone from this list and they will copy it to your user page.

One rule we do have in connection with conflicts of interest is that accounts used by more than one person will unfortunately be blocked from editing. Wikipedia generally does not allow editors to have usernames which imply that the account belongs to a company or corporation. If you have a username like this, you should request a change of username or create a new account. (A name that identifies the user as an individual within a given organization may be OK.)

In addition, if you receive, or expect to receive, compensation for any contribution you make, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation to comply with our terms of use and our policy on paid editing.

Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Best practices for editors with close associations
The five pillars of Wikipedia
Contributing to Wikipedia
Tutorial
How to edit a page and How to develop articles
How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
Simplified Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{Help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Adakiko (talk) 18:48, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Content needs to be verifiable[edit]

Per wp:verifiability, please wp:cite sources. (policy and method). Thank you Adakiko (talk) 19:28, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea of what you are talking about when you say "conflict of interest" Please provide specific examples. I am writing about what i personally RUN as executive director. I am absolutely neutral as I a run this as a non profit 501c3 charity. Sarahdanette (talk) 04:06, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please read wp:Conflict of interest (and content above) for policy and examples. Thank you Adakiko (talk) 10:41, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How in the heck do I cite sources for policy when I am the one who writes them. I should be the only one (along with Miss AMerica) that makes changes to these pages. Miss America and own the IP licensing for all images, logos etc... Anybody else using them is in violation of our copyrights and the liceensing that I pay for with Miss America every year. I do not know how to write in code - I am a visual editor. I would like the teen and miss Montana page closed out to outside editing to avoid errors and omissions.

I have to be allowed to protect my brands - these two pages are my brands. 2600:6C67:4A7F:8EE3:9890:E6A7:20EA:8DD5 (talk) 11:17, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After reading the COI page - I am NOT an external editor. I am the Executive Director and License holder for Miss Montana and Miss Montana's Outstanding Teen. I am writing as the source person who owns the IP and license for these programs. No one else should be posting to these pages! Does Wikipedia need a copy of my licensing and franchise agreement to prove what I am saying so I won't get harassed?

Wikipedia let some one on the opposing side program to us post a link to their program at the top of my page. When I saw it I promptly took it down last weekend.

Sarahdanette (talk) 11:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You have a COI. You are here for Miss Montana, not for Wikipedia. I would suggest you ask at the wp:Teahouse about this. See wp:OWN. BTW: When you click that "Publish changes" button, "...you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 4.0 License and the GFDL". Best wishes Adakiko (talk) 18:05, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I state facts not opinions. It is a fact based organization. There is no gray. How is that a COI? Everything is in the rule book and or is a published result. There is no COI Sarahdanette (talk) 18:44, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The "link to their program" is a hatnote, a tool to allow users to find similarly-titled articles, especially if there is a chance of confusion between them. There is a similar hatnote at Miss Montana USA directing users to Miss Montana if that's the page they were actually looking for. —C.Fred (talk) 22:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Miss MONTANA USA is a different FOR PROFIT system - it should not be tied us Miss MONTANA America. They collect fees and make money. Per your own rules they post on their own pages and make money which is a violation. WE DO NOT. The ONLY THING I CHANGED WAS CONTACT INFORMATION AND THE CURRENT WINNERS LOCAL TITLE!!!! WHICH IS ON THE WEBSITE WHICH WAS CITED.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT. Sarahdanette (talk) 23:21, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. That's why the hatnote is there, to point readers to that different topic if that's what they were looking for. —C.Fred (talk) 00:33, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So I have results from a pageant - I post those results because I was there. What more verification do you want. I have a program book that lists scholarships - that is fact. It is not published online. If you choose to allow false narrative on that page which you have when I corrected it, then you are not right. I am not the one with the issue. Sarahdanette (talk) 18:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You are not editing the Miss Montana page as an uninvolved party wp:here to build an encyclopedia. You are here because you are associated with the organization. That is a conflict of interest.

Posting from your own memory is wp:original research. Wikipedia content needs to be wp:verifiable. Adakiko (talk) 21:38, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am here to state facts and you are being inflammatory and wrong. There is nothing arbitrary about anything i am writing. I need to escalate this to someone else. You are biased. Sarahdanette (talk) 22:34, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I do not post from my MEMORY. I post from actual results.. You dont have a clue Sarahdanette (talk) 22:39, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But you acknowledge that you are posting from a primary source—one generated by the Miss Montana organization or related individuals—and not a secondary source such as media coverage of the pageants? —C.Fred (talk) 22:44, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The results posted are from the actual state competition. We post only facts and data. I have cited the Miss Montana website. There is nothing arbitrary about this I also have cited the Miss America website where the criteria is located. I do not have anything to do with that information. It comes from the national organizaton Sarahdanette (talk) 23:10, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally contact information that was changed was out of date and old. That was changed. That was pretty much all that was changed! The previous person was wrong and inflammatory towards us. I am a volunteer and do not get paid to volunteer for this organization. To be accused of bias is defamatory Sarahdanette (talk) 23:11, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The simple fact of the matter is that you have a conflict of interest because of your connection to the pageant organization. That you are a volunteer just means you do not have to make the stricter paid editing disclosures. —C.Fred (talk) 00:17, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If I have to have Miss America;s legal team weigh in I can. It is their IP not mine. Miss Montana pays for the licensing to use that IP every year. If you look at the content, it is data driven and there is no arbitrary articles or statements anywhere on those pages. The previous person does not understand that. Sarahdanette (talk) 23:14, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please review WP:No legal threats. By threatening to have the legal team involved, you will be giving up your ability to participate on Wikipedia so long as those threats are active. —C.Fred (talk) 00:15, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We didn't have media coverage last year other than the winner which WAS cited. The previous rep refused to understand that. This is very frustrating that you are beating up on us. Sarahdanette (talk) 23:16, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally how in the heck do you cite contact info????????!!!! Sarahdanette (talk) 23:17, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding contact info: the URL of the organization's website is self-explanatory. Key people can be cited from the website: one of the few uses of a self-published source is for information like the current CEO, executive director, or president (or principal, in the case of a school—an update I've had to make a few times from just the school's website). —C.Fred (talk) 00:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK.The program is in its infancy with its new administration. Trying to just the right contact info out there has been numbing. Miss America is anal with regard to IP and Social Media. Sarahdanette (talk) 00:25, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The new leadership is one of the things that is verifiable: there is a news story out there about the change in leadership in the wake of COVID. —C.Fred (talk) 00:29, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's the national

Admin change. I change I was referring to is the state leadership Sarahdanette (talk) 02:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I was referring to too. —C.Fred (talk) 03:00, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Fred - can you point me in the direction of a citation with the state leadership change noted? I have yet to stumble across that. Sarahdanette (talk) 03:31, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's on the article's talk page. —C.Fred (talk) 11:45, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, as an encyclopedia, Wikipedia is not subject to Miss America's internal guidelines for IP and social media. (Just ask the brothers of Phi Gamma Delta, who occasionally get irritated that their Greek letters appear online.)

Wikipedia articles do have to follow Wikipedia's own policies and guidelines, which include WP:Verifiability, WP:Reliable sources, and WP:Conflict of interest. (If you want to see Wikipedia administrators get anal, that's around the issues of undeclared paid editing and use of non-free content, particularly images.) —C.Fred (talk) 00:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

One other note about the Miss Montana website: the Avast antivirus software is currently blacklisting the URL and denying access to it. It is also not searchable on Google. You will want to (have your website people) look into that issue and get it fixed; otherwise, it will get removed from the article here as well. —C.Fred (talk) 00:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It was just built. Miss America is reassigning the address to missmontana.org this week. Once that is done it will be google searchable Sarahdanette (talk) 02:38, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for walking me thru this. I am just trying to correct the errors in the article and get the contact info updated (main concern) Sarahdanette (talk) 02:40, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]