User talk:Scanups

July 2008

Please be advised that there is a discussion in place about the grammar of better/best and more/most on Albert Pujols. But you already knew that, didn't you? -Phoenixrod (talk) 01:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh

Your recent edit summary says Regarding the use of "best" - Albert is either "the best" or one of the better players in the game - not "one of the best players in the game". This is flat-out wrong, as I have repeatedly said, and explained, for example on my talk page. "One of the best players in the game" is a common, perfectly acceptably, and dare I say preferred grammatical construction over "one of the better players".

One last time, here is why: "One of the best" means "belonging to a class known collectively as the best players". As the article should (and until very recently did) claim, Pujols belongs to this superlative class. It is a stronger and more notable claim than "one of the better players", which by contrast means roughly "above average"; the comparative implies that there are only two types of players, better and worse—clearly not the case, given the wide range of human ability. The only way you could dispute this is to say that there is no such group known as "the best players", and disputing that is lunacy. Please revert your edit.

Also, to be clear, are you User:Cardinals10WS? User:MarcLane? -Phoenixrod (talk) 02:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I am not either of the users above that you suggest. I agree with you that "one of the best" does sound better, however, many people have a tendency to say "I like this one better". Sounds all right, but incorrect. It should say, "I like this one more". Simply because you can only like something "more", "less", or "the same" - not better. I corrected the page because, simply put, the grammar I used is correct. While it is an arbitrary point, and certainly open to discussion, only one player can be the "best" player in baseball. When referring to a group of players who excel at their trade, it is proper to refer to any one of them as one of the better players. Saying that is certainly not demeaning to any player. Having said that, as stated above, I agree with you that it may sound better . . . whoops . . . or should I say, it may sound best . . . case in point. I am certainly not here to trade insults with you at all. -— Preceding unsigned comment added by Scanups (talk • contribs) 22 July 2008

Please sign talk page comments with four tildes (~).

I am not here to trade insults either. Let's not descend to that level.

The cases of "I like this one better" and "Pujols is one of the best/better players" are not parallel, so let's set aside that straw man argument. We are talking about which word should be used in the Albert Pujols article.

Do you have a source that claims that your change (better rather than best) makes the article more grammatically "correct"? I cannot find one, and I suspect that it is because while there is a grammatical argument in some cases for using "one of the better players", it is not as compelling as "one of the best players" in the case of Albert Pujols. For example, a Google search on the phrase "one of the better" turns up roughly 5.6 million hits, while the phrase "one of the best" offers a staggering 161 million hits. Clearly, the overwhelming precedent is for "one of the best" to be used. I realize that the Google test is problematic, but it does offer a trend in common usage that mirrors all the academic reading and writing with which I have experience.

You say that only one player can be the "best" player in baseball: agreed. However, when referring to a group of players who excel at their trade, it is proper to use the superlative to show their excellence when there are more than two groups. It is not "demeaning" a player to say "one of the better players", but it does misrepresent their skill with a comparative rather than a superlative. That's really what it comes down to: should we use the comparative better or the superlative best for the group of players at the top of their profession? Better is used when comparing two things; best is used when comparing three or more (source: Degree_of_comparison#English_usage). How many classes of players are there? Considerably more than two ... thus the use of best. -Phoenixrod (talk) 04:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)