Critiques[edit]

Mass reverts[edit]

If you are going to do mass reverts, could you please not do it one-by-one when there are many edits to a page? Go to the article history and revert to the previous version when possible, to save me (and everyone else who edits math articles) from having our entire watchlist filled by this. Thanks. --JBL (talk) 22:03, 12 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I appreciate the adjustment in your workflow. (BTW: I once did something similar to what you're doing now and it caused some annoyance to other people. Hopefully your experience will be better.) --JBL (talk) 23:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Templates are vastly superior to deprecated inline TeX, which travels poorly across a variety of platforms. Remember you are not editing for your platform only.... Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 03:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you feel I've been making idiosyncratic arguments, then feel free to be specific. I only make rebutting arguments to the effect that converting away from MathML + Latex isn't an obvious accessibility win, which was an argument that User:Hellacioussatyr has been trying to make. MathML + Latex has the broadest support of all with the most fallback options (WP: Rendering Math). And outside of Wikipedia, not only is MathML the official and dominant standard for markup, but so is Latex the common language for math encoding.

There's also just the simple fact that Hellacioussatyr has not been stopping by the Talk pages first, and has been going on a massive facelift spree across math articles. SirMeowMeow (talk) 03:42, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Inline LaTeX is certainly not deprecated; where would you pick up that bizarre idea? —JBL (talk) 12:30, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You've evidently missed the raging debates of MathML versus math templates, which as the owner of this page makes clear, is not something best reignited here! In the past, various platforms and browser implementations resulted in the nasty "ransom letter" look, replete with the afflicted complaining the majority was making WP unusable for them. While this is all but gone, Chrome implementations of MathML eating up signs are ubiquitous, (check talk on Pauli matrices) leading to hit-or-miss attempts to re-edit and thereby corrupt the code. In future, this would be fixed, but there is still no consensus to remove or supplant math templates. My sense is to let sleeping dogs lie. Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 14:51, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so in other words you just made up the idea that inline LaTeX is deprecated.
The actual consensus position on how to render mathematics in Wikipedia is represented by MOS:FORMULA. I agree re: sleeping dogs; the edits SirMeowMeow has reverted also violated that maxim. Probably "block anyone who changes math formatting just for the sake of changing math formatting" would solve the problem, but I don't think it's a viable option, either. --JBL (talk) 15:17, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've never had any interest in blockings and individuals, and certainly this last spate. I am simply reminding the interlocutors of a basic fact on the ground, ubiquitous in technical editing here. I may have failed to keep up with developments, and used the present as opposed to the past, but, no, I did not "make up" the idea! You really wish to breach a stalemate? I have been behind it, and supportive of editors considerate of other platforms, but I am not going to get caught up in parochial, and impermanent, arguments of this form. MOS:FORMULA walked away from the problem. Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 17:55, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There are two threads of our conversation; with respect to You really wish to breach a stalemate?, I do not think that you have read my comments very carefully at all. With respect to the other thread, you appear to have invented from whole cloth the idea that inline LaTeX has ever been "deprecated" (syn: obsolete; superceded); apparently you just meant that you personally don't like it. --JBL (talk) 18:01, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I am decoupling; last statement: I meant that, for quite a while, given the facts on the ground, a large number of editors I respect, and myself, have been opting, in unison, for not excluding sundry platform readers. This is not the place and format for settling the issue, but I did read your statements and I do know where you are coming from. Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 18:53, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I consider it sufficient to argue that converting away from MathML + Latex isn't a clear accessibility win, since Cuzkatzimhut has taken on the position that in the inline context this has been deprecated (!) and that templates are just vastly superior (!). Which is similar enough to Hellacioussatyr's position.

You said not merely to think about my own platform, but you haven't made your position obvious at all. You have not made it obvious that math templates are vastly superior for accessibility. Making the case that there's a case for math templates is not the same thing as defending your extraordinary position that one is vastly superior to another. Note that these are all arguments made originally in rebuttal to the attempt to build consensus that <math> is bad for accessibility.

I have made my arguments available but your response to dismiss them. The conversation you reference from Pauli Matrices has fewer than a handful of lines.

SirMeowMeow (talk) 21:09, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Reinhard Diestel moved to draftspace[edit]

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