User talk:Slp512

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Hello, Slp512, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Leebo ^T/C 02:19, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Your question at the help desk

I have replied to your question here. When editing talk pages, you can click on the "edit this page" tab at the top just like any other page, or the "[edit]" links on individual sections. You've edited Lonnie Mack, and editing a talk page is no different. Happy editing. Leebo ^T/C 02:19, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Reply to WebHamster

Thanks so much for your help on this. A little background...I'm a semi-retired lawyer in Los Angeles. I became friends with Lonnie a few years ago when I was toying with the idea of basing a character in a screenplay on him. Later we found out we are distantly related; our mothers' families intermarried in the era of Daniel Boone, when Kentucky was "the frontier" and survival strategies included taking an Indian wife.

The screenplay never happened (soneone else was already doing it) but it bothered me that the only things you could find on him were old publicity pieces, so I ended up doing this article. He's an extremely modest guy, with very little formal education, and really has no concept of his historical importance until you sit him down and explain it to him. Although I had been a fan since the early '60s, I didn't appreciate just how significant his contribution had been until I started doing the research.

I'm busy with work now, but will get back to the article soon, and will take your advice re the Intro. I'll also try to get some additional photos into the article.

Again, thanks for all your help.

slp512Slp512 17:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Lonnie Mack

Apologies for not replying sooner, sort of been distracted here and kept forgetting.

I think I've got up to date now with the formatting of the citations etc. I reckon you've done a great job on the article, even more so that you're new to Wikipedia. Well done.

I have to say, even though I'm a big fan of Mack's since the late 80s, I only came across the article by accident. When I'm bored I do some wiki-gnoming by clicking on 'random article' then editing it if required.

As regards the image. That's reasonably simple (so long as you get the licensing right). Just click on the "Upload file" link over on the right hand side of the page. Choose the appropriate copyright license and click upload. I'm afraid you can't just nab an image of the net, even if it's Mack's site. Likewise you can't use a copyrighted image, even with fair-use, to show the likeness of a living person. To be honest Wikipedia only really likes free images so even with the copyright holder's permission you have to jump through all sorts of hoops to use it.

I reckon the article is almost ready for some peer review to further fine tune it, then maybe reassess its rating. One thing that definitely needs doing though is rewriting the lead section. One sentence is just not enough. It has to be, basically, a mini version of the article. If you read the page linked to above you'll get an idea. Anyway, I hope that helps. It's been a delight to help you out. --WebHamster 03:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Peer review

Hi, just to let you know, I've put the Lonnie Mack article up for peer review to garner opinion and comments about how else improvements could be made to the article. The article is a candidate for GA status in my opinion and you should be proud of what you've achieved. However be prepared for some of the comments to be harsh. They will all be constructive though and will have the best interests of the article at heart (though maybe not any sensitivities you may have!!! <g>). You can see the comments here. All the best. --WebHamster 15:45, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

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Your recent edits

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• critical acclaim as a blue-eyed soul singer.<ref>Alec Dubrow, Rolling Stone, November 23, 1968) Quote: "It is truly the voice of Lonnie Mack that sets him apart. He is primarily a gospel singer,

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Fixing article

I've probably written 99%+ of this article over the last 8 years. Very recently, someone in a position of apparent authority posted a notice above the article, stating that it "promotes the subject in a subjective manner without imparting real information". I've made major edits to address the stated concerns. Many thanks to editor Tasos Kessaris for his kind assistance in this effort. 5/03/2018 update: I've attempted to make it more concise and make his significance in the history of rock music clearer and easier to understand. 5/18/2018 update: More edits (mostly stylistic and diction) since the last, but nothing major, substantively. I've taken the advice of one editor who suggested that I demonstrate assertions with quotes from authoritative sources in the body of the article, not just the footnotes. I hope the changes are viewed as improvements.

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Thank you, sir. I'll go back and see if I can fix the problem.

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Foonoting Flag

The article has been flagged for a rogue footnoting style. A cursory review of the footnotes will reveal why they have been done that way (i.e., with numbered and lettered sub-parts)...to do otherwise would result in unreadable footnotes. One option, of course, would be to cut way back on the footnoted material. The problem there is that this topic, "Lonnie Mack", is not covered comprehensively anywhere else. Accordingly, it was my intent to do so here, within the broad limitations of a readable article.

The upshot of the foregoing is that much material has been placed in footnotes (to keep the body of the article readable), but the footnotes themselves have been sub-parted for readability of the footnotes themselves.

This article has been revised many times, mostly to make it more comprehensive but readable. Various prior criticisms that have been addressed (I'm paraphrasing the essence of the criticisms): "Too subjective": Footnotes were added to support anything that might otherwise be deemed subjective. "Not enough quotes from authoritative sources". Many quotes were added, and each required a footnote. Subparts with additional sources were added to some of these footnotes to establish that there is general agreement with the source of the quote.

If this article is to be revised by another, I request that it be improved. The last major revision by another was full-on slash-and-burn, with a huge debris field to be cleaned up later by me.

Comments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slp512 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

It is kind of a mess. It's going to be a considerable amount of work to refactor all of that.

The basic guidance is at WP:FOOTNOTES and you may need to pay particular attention to the section on separating footnotes from references and the additional guidance at WP:Nesting footnotes.

I'm a bit alarmed by your statement that ... is not covered comprehensively anywhere else. Accordingly, it was my intent to do so here.... One reading of what you are trying to do is to create a new comprehensive monograph on Mack by synthesizing these diverse materials. To me, that doesn't sound like what we should be aiming to do here on WP. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 17:00, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. "It is a mess": I respectfully disagree but will leave it to my betters to determine what to do about it. Countless hours have gone into making this "mess" and I'm not inclined to spend countless hours transforming it into what, from my perspective, would be an inferior, less readable and likely (if I understand what you want) less scholarly outcome. "Alarmed by....(etc.)" If the worthwhile info on Mack was to be found in a single source, or even a collection of say, 10 sources, the footnotes would reflect that. Unfortunately, that was not the case. There is no book on Mack. Much of the material was found by spending many hours at the Los Angeles Public Library poring over microfiche documents. I wish it had been easier, but it wasn't, and the article so reflects. Best regards, and thanks again. SPL512. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slp512 (talk • contribs) 21:04, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

I thank you for this immense contribution! I intended no deprecation at all of the work you've put into this, it's just that more work will be needed. I hope we can get this closer to standard WP citation formatting without losing any of your work or the readability. I'll put it on my list of things to look at more closely. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:05, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, sir. SLP512

Unless you've editing while logged out (an accepted practice, but not recommended), some other editor has been working on the article as well. I have taken a brief look and wanted to ask - if you're the one responsible for them - what the intent was for the boldface numbers in parens in some of the references. This is the first issue that stands out as a non-standard aspect of the referencing in this article. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 02:30, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for asking. I do occasionally find that I've edited while logged out, but 99%+ of the current article (and all footnotes, to my knowledge) are from me. There are several purposes to the sub-sectioned/boldfaced footnotes: (1) Avoidance of multiple footnotes after the same passage; (2) Clarity/readability. Imagine some of these without the sub-parts or boldface. In essence, they'd be run-on footnotes to the nth degree. I think that doing them the way I've done them makes them clearer and more accessible to the reader. (3) Some of the footnotes with sub-parts address multiple sub-topics, and are made clearer, I think, by breaking them down in recognition of same; others are simply lists of multiple sources of support for a single topic. As to the latter, I wanted to make sure no one thought I was relying on a single, atypical source.

Having said the foregoing, if the footnotes can be retained in a way that conforms to the Wiki norm, without unduly impairing readability or accessibility, so much the better. I'm just not the best guy to do it. This is my one and only Wiki article and perhaps someone with greater depth in Wiki's practices would be better for the task. Many thanks for your concern. 10/10 postscript--Article's background: 12 years ago, I saw the film "Ray", about Ray Charles. I came up with the idea of writing a screenplay about someone in the same field who had demonstrated greatness, but suffered career setbacks, struggled with personal demons, and basically disappeared from the public eye, only to re-emerge many years later. For character development, I researched several artists whose career arcs fit the mold to varying degrees, including Roy Head, Tim Buckley, and others, including Mack. Ultimately, however, I abandoned the project. I'm glad I did, as it wasn't long before the same basic plot was used for the 2009 film Crazy Heart, for which Jeff Bridges won the Oscar for Best Actor. At that point, I was left with a lot of hard-to-find background material on Mack (info on the others was more accessible), and ultimately decided to use it for this Wiki article. Mack was the subject of much commentary when he died in 2016. I revised the article over time to reflect that information as well.Slp512 (talk) 19:01, 9 October 2018 (UTC)SLP512

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Connection to Loonie Mack

Hello there. I've just noticed your edits on the Loonie Mack article and I must ask you, what is your connection to the late Loonie Mack? Cheers. Canterbury Tail talk 01:27, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello. Reprinted from above: "Article's background: 12 years ago, I saw the film "Ray", about Ray Charles. I came up with the idea of writing a screenplay about someone in the same field who had demonstrated greatness, but suffered career setbacks, struggled with personal demons, and basically disappeared from the public eye, only to re-emerge many years later. For character development, I researched several artists whose career arcs fit the mold to varying degrees, including Roy Head, Tim Buckley, and others, including Mack. Ultimately, however, I abandoned the project. I'm glad I did, as it wasn't long before the same basic plot was used for the 2009 film Crazy Heart, for which Jeff Bridges won the Oscar for Best Actor. At that point, I was left with a lot of hard-to-find background material on Mack (info on the others was more accessible), and ultimately decided to use it for this Wiki article. Mack was the subject of much commentary when he died in 2016. I revised the article over time to reflect that information as well." I would add that I interviewed Mack several times as part of the later-abandoned screenplay project. During that time I grew quite fond of him, which ultimately provided the motivation to pull together the published info I had gathered earlier and use it for the present purpose.

Okay, fair enough. Just wanted to check. I must say it's rather unusual for a Wikipedia editor to only edit one article, and to edit it over 11,000 times. :) Canterbury Tail talk 16:54, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

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